Pulled over on an EUC.

[Voyex]

Earlier this week, I was riding my Sherman on the road heading to University. I was pulled over by an officer and ticketed for riding a play vehicle on the roadway. I was riding with protective equipment and in the safest manner that I could. This comes from Wisconsin law that defines unicycles as "Play vehicles" I intend to fight this ticket and aruge that an EUC is not a unicycle and due to it's capabilities should be allowed for street use. Does anyone know of any PEV laws in their areas or elsewhere that would encompass EUCs? My goal is to use these examples to argue that they shouldn't be classified as a unicycle. In Wisconsin they are currently in a grey area due to the single wheel.

[OldFartRides]

5 hours ago, Voyex said:

 I was riding with protective equipment and in the safest manner that I could. 

Well good on ya for that.

Best of luck w/ yer case.

[.....]

6 hours ago, Voyex said:

Earlier this week, I was riding my Sherman on the road heading to University. I was pulled over by an officer and ticketed for riding a play vehicle on the roadway. I was riding with protective equipment and in the safest manner that I could. This comes from Wisconsin law that defines unicycles as "Play vehicles" I intend to fight this ticket and aruge that an EUC is not a unicycle and due to it's capabilities should be allowed for street use. Does anyone know of any PEV laws in their areas or elsewhere that would encompass EUCs? My goal is to use these examples to argue that they shouldn't be classified as a unicycle. In Wisconsin they are currently in a grey area due to the single wheel.

If you pursue this route, they will more than likely probe further into its power and speed. THEN you will find that it simply cannot comply with current vehicle codes of any kind, and you may make a simple matter worse. If it were me, I'd more likely pay the 'toy' fine and move along. Maybe pay the fine, THEN go about reforming the rules or defining the lack of. Is the 'toy' fine a moving violation at all? If not, even more reson to simply dig deep, pay the piper and not poke the bear. Maybe save the arguement and resistance to the ticket, for the 3rd or 4th time you get one? Perhaps save the effort until they impound the 'toy' or threaten a license? Perhaps paying an attorney to handle this for you, will get you a more direct answer with less chance of reprocussions? Is a 'toy' fine, less than the penalty for unauthorized use of a motorized vehicle on public roadways. One that is NOT in compliance with federal or local regulations? I don't like to roll over for fines I don't agree with, but maybe this is one of those times. Hard pressed to convince a judge that a 50mph 80lb vehicle is OK, and less worry than a 50cc 35mph moped that has many requirements. I'd rather be considered a toy and get a gentle slap, than an unregistered vehicle and treated as such. Just my $.02, good luck!

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Tawpie]

Washington State includes one wheeled self balancing vehicles under their "electric personal assistive mobility device" definition, but modern EUCs fall outside of the horsepower and speed definition and thus are probably unregulated. This has not been tested in court.

From https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.04.1695

Finding—2015 c 145: "The legislature finds that at least two companies in Washington have developed a one-wheeled device for people to use to travel from place to place. These devices are unregulated and can travel wherever and however they like. By adding these devices to the definition of an electric personal assistive mobility device, they become regulated and local communities can determine locations that are appropriate for their use." [ 2015 c 145 § 1.]

The above language was used to add one-wheeled vehicles... added so that they become regulated. But since the definition of a one-wheeled EPAMD is specifically "(2) a self-balancing device with one wheel designed to transport only one person by an electric propulsion system with an average power of two thousand watts (two and two-thirds horsepower) having a maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a propulsion system, of less than twenty miles per hour.", this almost covers an MTen3 and doesn't cover my 16X. So it's very unclear and could be argued that the legislature has already recognized that things not specified aren't regulated, and since a one-wheeled vehicle that can go faster than 20 mph is NOT an EPAMD it is thus unregulated and can travel wherever and however they like.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Tawpie

[Voyex]

29 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

If you pursue this route, they will more than likely probe further into its power and speed. THEN you will find that it simply cannot comply with current vehicle codes of any kind, and you may make a simple matter worse. If it were me, I'd more likely pay the 'toy' fine and move along. Maybe pay the fine, THEN go about reforming the rules or defining the lack of. Is the 'toy' fine a moving violation at all? If not, even more reson to simply dig deep, pay the piper and not poke the bear. Maybe save the arguement and resistance to the ticket, for the 3rd or 4th time you get one? Perhaps save the effort until they impound the 'toy' or threaten a license? Perhaps paying an attorney to handle this for you, will get you a more direct answer with less chance of reprocussions? Is a 'toy' fine, less than the penalty for unauthorized use of a motorized vehicle on public roadways. One that is NOT in compliance with federal or local regulations? I don't like to roll over for fines I don't agree with, but maybe this is one of those times. Hard pressed to convince a judge that a 50mph 80lb vehicle is OK, and less worry than a 50cc 35mph moped that has many requirements. I'd rather be considered a toy and get a gentle slap, than an unregistered vehicle and treated as such. Just my $.02, good luck!

 

 

29 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

If you pursue this route, they will more than likely probe further into its power and speed. THEN you will find that it simply cannot comply with current vehicle codes of any kind, and you may make a simple matter worse. If it were me, I'd more likely pay the 'toy' fine and move along. Maybe pay the fine, THEN go about reforming the rules or defining the lack of. Is the 'toy' fine a moving violation at all? If not, even more reson to simply dig deep, pay the piper and not poke the bear. Maybe save the arguement and resistance to the ticket, for the 3rd or 4th time you get one? Perhaps save the effort until they impound the 'toy' or threaten a license? Perhaps paying an attorney to handle this for you, will get you a more direct answer with less chance of reprocussions? Is a 'toy' fine, less than the penalty for unauthorized use of a motorized vehicle on public roadways. One that is NOT in compliance with federal or local regulations? I don't like to roll over for fines I don't agree with, but maybe this is one of those times. Hard pressed to convince a judge that a 50mph 80lb vehicle is OK, and less worry than a 50cc 35mph moped that has many requirements. I'd rather be considered a toy and get a gentle slap, than an unregistered vehicle and treated as such. Just my $.02, good luck!

 

Thanks Shane for your feedback. I plan on going and consulting an attorney about this to see what the best course of action would be. I really don't mind paying fine if that's the best action. But, this isn't the first time that I've been stopped in my town for such a thing. My city has relatively friendly PEV laws and I would like to see if I can be defined as an electric scooter or ebike as with my current scenario I'm afraid that I won't be able to even ride my wheel in my city much longer if something doesn't get done. Again, I think consulting attorney will be the biggest deciding factor on how I move forward.blockquote widgetblockquote widgetblockquote widget

Edited November 15, 2021 by Voyex

[.....]

Apologies if i just sound so negative. Well, I kind of am. But I do think that MAYBE you could pay the fine and THEN pursue getting the regulations changed. It may seem like you have an interest in it that is more than simply trying to get out of a fine. You know how goes... play by the rules and pay the price. THEN, go about changing the rules. Hopefully you can get a consultation with a professional, and they will direct you in how to best use your time and money. A lot of times, policy change comes thru chasing the money and lobbying. Hopefully this is one of those things that they just kind of give you some leeway and adopt agreeable guidlines, until they prove to need revisited. I do know that money talks, and their concern over the few euc riders, is probably not much. Truly, let us know what you find out! Maybe this little ticket is what starts the snowball that becomes an avalanche, and you help direct it to the best crevice...

States vary wildly on so many things. Here in NC, you are assumed to NOT be tresspassing and can legally hunt unless signage or verbally told otherwise. Just south of us in SC, I'm told that the opposite is true. Unless specifically granted rights, you must assume you ARE tresspassing and definitely cannot hunt the land. You can also fire a rifle right next to an occupied home, even if the owner doesnt want you to(in NC). All that matters in NC, is what land you are standing on, proximity means nothing. IN SC, you ARE NOT allowed to fire a rifle within a certain distance of a dwelling, unless the owner grants permission. Yeah, I hear hunting rifles at 4am, about 20' from my bedroom window.  These little difference in NC and SC are actually quite large ones, and simply illustrates how one state's common sense, is another state's law. Apologies about the derail, I just figured some people may find the stark differences, amusing.

Edited November 15, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Richardo]

Very curious what you find out. I should go to bed but i want to learn more about the wisconsin law. 
 

can a snomobile be driven on the street legally? 🤔

best wishes from illinois, where anything goes and people legally drive quads on the streets of the central business district in Chicago. 
 

edit: @Voyex have you read the law yet? 

https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/safety/education/drv-behavior/346.pdf 346.79 and 346.80 seem to be the sections that apply.  

I feel like you’re right to fight this. Unicycles aren’t mentioned under play vehicle restrictions (or elsewhere) and personal electric vehicles have full bicycle rights

Edited November 15, 2021 by Richardo

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 17 by PLEASE_DELETE

[wheel-life]

did you tell him it was an electric unicycle? think i'll be referring to mine as a half e-bike going fwd:

 

Quote

340.01 (43m) "Play vehicle" means a coaster, skate board, roller skates, sled, toboggan, unicycle or toy vehicle upon which a person may ride.

 

[OldFartRides]

Ah, a wise guy huh ? Why l oughta…..

[Paul A]

https://www.wisbar.org/forpublic/ineedalawyer/pages/lris.aspx

 

Lawyers sometimes have a tendency to claim they are proficient in the area you are seeking advice for. 

This may not be necessarily true.  

 

The above link might be the initial contact. 

Usually better to call, speak with a person, describe the problem, and they will refer a selection of lawyer(s)/firms with experience and expertise in the required area of law.

Better than trying to search the website yourself.

 

Lawyer Referral and Information Service

 

 

If you need help with a legal issue, the State Bar of Wisconsin's Lawyer Referral and Information Service (LRIS) is a good place to start. You can search for an attorney through our website, or you can speak to a legal assistant by calling (800) 362-9082.

[VikB]

An EUC is never going to be considered an e-bike or e-scooter. The self-balancing part of the equation makes that impossible. You'll never meet the requirements [mechanical brakes and firmware enforced top speed for example...] Taking the ticket to court will raise the issue's profile in the minds of your area's LEO. I think in the end you'll find it even harder to ride an EUC there.

Part of the challenge of riding a device/vehicle that isn't legal is that you may run into these sorts of issues. I think keeping a low profile is better than fighting.

Edited November 20, 2021 by VikB

[Carlos21]

It is better to be ticketed for driving a toy vs. unproved vehicle for road transportation, just saying. I would pay ticket nicely and enjoy riding.

[RayRay]

I doubt that the law or lawmakers would ever favor euc enthusiasts interpretation of what constitutes a 'safe' vehicle.

We're better off now (in legal grey area) then in a future that regulates euc's to 5 years ago specs. (i.e. slow & weak)

Enjoy it while you can.

Edited November 20, 2021 by RayRay

[Paradox]

So from this Officer's point of view you should have been riding on the sidewalk?  That seems dangerous in crowded circumstances.  If his point of view is that you should only be riding this on private property then this could be a problem for the community in general if this gets traction.

[CrunchyTire]

1 hour ago, Paradox said:

So from this Officer's point of view you should have been riding on the sidewalk?  That seems dangerous in crowded circumstances.  If his point of view is that you should only be riding this on private property then this could be a problem for the community in general if this gets traction.

You can always ride at a walking pace if you have to use the sidewalk. A car accident or pile up because a car swerved to avoid you, could be worse than running into a person walking imo. And since we dont have insurance to cover damage, it creates legal problems. People ride other slow PEVs on the sidewalk like a hoverboard without much issue. 

My personal rule is, 1)stick to bike paths and follow the 15mph speed limit if I see an officer. 2)if no bike path exists, go very slow on the sidewalk until a bike path exists again. 3)if neither exist, go really fast(close to the speed limit, which is 35 to 45 here) down the right lane of traffic (not splitting lanes like some YT videos) until I can get back into a bike path. If you're disrupting traffic by going too slow (or cutting lanes) you're asking to get pulled over imo.  Try to plan my rides around places that have bike paths.  I grew up with a pocket bike and those got banned fast, so I try to ride responsibly as much as possible. Depending on the cost of the ticket, paying it may be the best option.

One bad experience doesn't mean all officers will pull you over. It really depends on the officer that sees you lol. Keep your head on a swivel and be ready to slow down when you see one coming. If you get a second ticket, then it might be time to re think riding in that city lol

Edited November 20, 2021 by JordanEUC

[Vam Monaco]

How many USD are they trying to extort you for?

[Carlos21]

21 hours ago, Paradox said:

So from this Officer's point of view you should have been riding on the sidewalk?  That seems dangerous in crowded circumstances.  If his point of view is that you should only be riding this on private property then this could be a problem for the community in general if this gets traction.

In USA basically nobody walks on sidewalks, so driving EUC on the sidewalk is best possible option. You will have like 1 person/30 min driving or less. If you go downtown at Friday night that is a different story.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Carlos21

[Paradox]

5 minutes ago, Carlos21 said:

n USA basically nobody walks on sidewalks, so driving EUC on the sidewalk is best possible option. You will have like 1 person/30 min driving or less. If you go downtown at Friday night that is a different story.

I appreciate your comment but here in Chicago there are way to many people on the sidewalks. Heck even the bike paths are overcrowded on nice days.  If the sidewalk seems clear you run the risk of someone exiting a store or apartment building right into your path.  There are probably areas where people walking down the sidewalks is a rare sight but where I live sidewalks for extended distances is a no go.   On bike paths distracted bike riders or joggers or dog walkers are all hazards.  The streets are dangerous for different reasons.  Someone might open a car door as your riding along the parked cars.  In this city you must be focused on the ride.   Distractions could lead to crashes.  I am aware of several crashes here for both rider error and car driver error.  Arguments can be made against riding on the sidewalk, bike paths and streets.  Drawing unwanted attention might get us banned or regulated in ways that we won't like.  You can ride here.  You can have fun riding here.  Ride but ride smart. 

[Surfling]

On 11/21/2021 at 9:15 AM, Carlos21 said:

In USA basically nobody walks on sidewalks

'might wanna check and correct yourself. A big majority will disagree with that.....

 

[Vam Monaco]

14 hours ago, VikB said:

 Taking the ticket to court will raise the issue's profile in the minds of your area's LEO. I think in the end you'll find it even harder to ride an EUC there.

Not really... LEO's NEVER show up for traffic violations- they write hundreds of tickets a week and never look back with a "tell it it to the judge" mentality. Fighting a ticket won't have any effect in their minds. However, it will in the eyes of the court... Which is bad for the community as a whole, should it provoke legislation.

On 11/14/2021 at 4:04 PM, Voyex said:

 I intend to fight this ticket

I've had similar shit happen to me and I just pay the fine and write it off as "operating costs".
We trick out these mopeds and I got cited for not no license plate, no helmet and "broken taillight" (there never was a taillight) on a MOTORCYCLE. I could have fought it because a 49cc moped has the same laws as a bicycle, but how would I explain to the courts that I was cruising at 65 MPH on the interstate? Same thing in Florida when I was cited for causing a "wake" in a canoe... I just paid it rather than telling the judge that we're out here strapping turbine JET ENGINES to canoes.

TAKE ONE FOR THE TEAM.

I think I speak for the community when i say that NO ONE HERE wants you to fight this ticket.

In the era of 50 MPH+ wheels, legislation is just one high profile crash away. IT'S INEVITABLE. Eventually, Some lawyer's son will get run over on an EUC and he''ll be all over the nightly news whining about how the laws failed or that EUC's should be banned, so it's in the best interest of the community to be as low-key as possible and not do anything to get EUC's under the microscope of lawmakers.

I would totally understand if you were poor and the ticket was insanely high but let's be real: You're riding a $3k wheel and the ticket is $98. Think of all that "beer money" you saved from not having to pay for registration/insurance/smog/brake tags and call it an operating cost.

 

[RayRay]

Trying to categorize vehicles (for legal purposes) gets out of hand really fast... 

Characteristics that can impact a vehicle classification:

• overall dimensions (weight, width, etc.)
• number of wheels (+ relative position)
• propulsion system(s)
• power and speed
• steering mechanism
• stopping mechanism
• safety features (horns, lights, etc.)
• point of contact (foot vs. ass)
• other dumb stuff...

When a new vehicle is unlike other's in more than one of these characteristics, they're basically screwed (in a legal sense).

I'm just saying...

[.....]

On 11/21/2021 at 9:15 AM, Carlos21 said:

In USA basically nobody walks on sidewalks, so driving EUC on the sidewalk is best possible option. You will have like 1 person/30 min driving or less. If you go downtown at Friday night that is a different story.

Whats a sidewalk? 99% of the time I don't see any of them. However, even in small towns, people are on the sidewalks, walking, standing and store fronts clutter it. When I visit a town with an euc that is too slow for the flow of traffic, I hit the sidewalks. However, my pace is very slow and when people approach, I prepare to dismount and allow them rights to it. Our sidewalks arent wide enough for 3 people, and tho one could easily fit by one person on an euc, these people don't know wtf an euc is. Add to it, people walk shoulder to shoulder or with dogs..  In short, the sidewalk with an euc is almost as slow as walking. A sure fire way to get tickets and the grey area becoming black and white (not in your favor), is to get one rich asshole to dislike your presumption that HIS sidewalk is for your euc. This same guy will go have beers with a local politician or a lowly officer and BAM... no euc for you. If it becomes a 'who's di*k is bigger' contest, you could find yourself in troubles that linger and intrude in other areas of your life. Small towns here, only a few cops. GO ahead, start that contest and see how daily life turns out for you. RIght and wrong don't coincide with reality.

My first ticket will be met with obedience and ignorance. I'll try to make friends with the cop and pleasantly take the ticket. If i can, I'd mail it in and simply hope my lack of being seen, will equate to forgotten. If I leave it in the right way with the first ticket, the same cop could probably ticket me again or let it go next time, no need to prove he is SO MUCH more powerful than i.

Edited November 24, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Paul A]

Sounds a bit like Boss Hogg and Rosco, Hazzard County, in real life.

 

[GothamMike]

On 11/14/2021 at 5:04 PM, Voyex said:

Earlier this week, I was riding my Sherman on the road heading to University. I was pulled over by an officer and ticketed for riding a play vehicle on the roadway. I was riding with protective equipment and in the safest manner that I could. This comes from Wisconsin law that defines unicycles as "Play vehicles" I intend to fight this ticket and aruge that an EUC is not a unicycle and due to it's capabilities should be allowed for street use. Does anyone know of any PEV laws in their areas or elsewhere that would encompass EUCs? My goal is to use these examples to argue that they shouldn't be classified as a unicycle. In Wisconsin they are currently in a grey area due to the single wheel.

Do your research on Wisconsin Law. Looks like a Cop was waiting for you.

Attach a small Rollerblade wheel to the back, then it become an "Electric Bicycle"

Officer, it has TWO WHEELS! It's a Bicycle!

Place an official looking sticker on it:

Veteran Sherman

Electric Bicycle

25 MPH Maximum speed