Popular Post FunTech4Real Posted November 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2021 2 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said: We have no basis for distrust of the new M50LT, because the EUC community hasn't used it yet. And we should not have any distrust of the LG M50T, because it's in the S18 (no fires) and V11 (also no fires, but some have said V11 cells may have been changed at some point, I cannot confirm). Also because the LG M50T cells are used world wide in a huge array of gadgets and LG makes top quality cells. The only distrust we should have is of Gotway/Begode (and Extreme Bull) who have a history of wheels catching on fire both without and without LG M50T cells, and it includes wheels catching on fire that have not even been used yet. There's basically no way a brand new LG M50T cell is going to combust on its own in normal conditions; the wheels that caught on fire before first use where clearly caused by terrible quality and safety engineering from Gotway. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Might need a death(s) and/or crackdown by authorities to improve safety. The eWheels Gotway shipping container fire were certainly new wheels still in the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizra6ot Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 In today's wrongway video the Ex.n HT packs are samsung 50E 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 13 minutes ago, Bizra6ot said: In today's wrongway video the Ex.n HT packs are samsung 50E Nice! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 #2 BEGODE BATTERY SAFETY ANNOUNCEMENT - ELECTRICAL CONCERNS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Guy Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Paul A said: #2 BEGODE BATTERY SAFETY ANNOUNCEMENT - ELECTRICAL CONCERNS Adam is selling out his GotWay/Begode wheels!... Interesting what he thinks about the wheels coming from them after June 2021. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 43 minutes ago, That Guy said: Adam is selling out his GotWay/Begode wheels!... Interesting what he thinks about the wheels coming from them after June 2021. Makes no sense. After mostly 20 minutes of slow video and seen his face once and again, when they inspected his battery it was great. Only some marks in the black cover are the reason to be worried about. I continue driving my MSP. Obviously, I take care of it as well as my 18xl, 9bot, and others. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GoldenOne Posted November 22, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina said: Makes no sense. After mostly 20 minutes of slow video and seen his face once and again, when they inspected his battery it was great. Only some marks in the black cover are the reason to be worried about. I continue driving my MSP. Obviously, I take care of it as well as my 18xl, 9bot, and others. The battery degredation wasn't the concern. The complete lack of any sufficient physical or electrical protection was 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Paul A said: I watched the whole video. It motivated me to reply here: This was a big miss by Wrongway. (Does Adam have an a forum username here?) In brief, my problems with his long story are: Assertion that the charging input of Gotway BMS is unprotected or unsafe. Especially including his statement "If water gets in the charging port while you're riding, the wheel will cut out, like it did to me." Completely untrue! Gotway BMS protects the charge port from overcurrent and short circuits safely and effectively. I have demonstrated it myself, by intentionally shorting the charging port while riding the EUC. The charging circuit disabled itself due to the short, and the EUC continued running without a hiccup. I completely believe Adam experienced a cutout during wet weather, but his claim about the cause is just wrong. Lack of constructive advice. After all his criticism of the pack design, the only advice Adam offered viewers was 'get rid of your old Gotway' (paraphrased). Such a missed opportunity to discuss fire safety and preparedness! Even if you buy a shiny new EUC including a battery in an immersion-rated box and an output-interrupting BMS, cell fires are still possible. Knowing what they're like and what to do if one happens is universally-applicable knowledge. Fostering an idea that 'new EUC's won't burn, don't worry' is harmful! 15 hours ago, GoldenOne said: complete lack of any sufficient physical or electrical protection Unconstructive sensationalism! Boo this man! But let's blame Adam first Edited November 23, 2021 by RagingGrandpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Previous video by Adam on fire, safety etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enaon Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 22 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said: Completely untrue! The statement may be inaccurate on new packs, but "completelly untrue" is inaccurate as well I have shorted them too, they spark, no protection, maybe you have a newer pack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, enaon said: I have shorted them too, they spark, no protection, maybe you have a newer pack? All Gotway models MSX and newer include protection. (Except some MTen3's which continued production thru 2019.) MSuper V3 and earlier did not have port protection, but those are now very very old models... Yes, there will be a spark! (Demonstration here, again, showing it!) Then, instantaneously, the BMS turns off, and melting, fires, and cutouts do not result. 56 minutes ago, Paul A said: Previous video by Adam on fire, safety etc. [youtube transcript] okay so today we're going to discuss lithium ion battery pack fire what happens if um a uc starts to burn is number one you will smell a certain smoke and this smoke is really just toxic and really bad for your lungs so what you will hear first is either a sizzling probably and you will start smelling something similar to a burning cable or just burning electronics and if that happens the first thing you need to do you need to grab the euc if it still is not burning and throw it outside now if you can't do it the uc will be just really warm and you can burn your fingers for sure and uh cells will keep exploding because of uh the heat now what you can do as well is get a fire extinguisher and you know before i thought that fire extinguishers don't help but actually if you get aextinguisher like this which is destined also for high voltage um devices then this will also help to just diminish the fire better i think the most important criteria is to just react fast and probably the biggest issue arises if like no one is at home so this is what you can do there's also like the small fire automatic fireballs which kuji rolls has i think they would help as well i don't have them yet but i'll buy some of those this is really a wake-up call sort of for euc companies especially we go in this case because emotion didn't have these issues over time or at least nothing that i know of over the last period and the same as king song also has veteran so when you look at the monster pro especially it has a motherboard that is really close to the battery pack like it's a lot of stuff that could possibly go wrong so if you're still here leave a like on the video subscribe to see more content like this i'll see you in the next next video I found two sentences of constructive advice in those 20 minutes... we can do better. Edited November 23, 2021 by RagingGrandpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enaon Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said: All Gotway models MSX and newer include protection. Yes, there will be a spark! (Demonstration here, again, showing it!) Then, instantaneously, the BMS turns off, and melting, fires, and cutouts do not result! You mean it is turning off the charging input? It cannot turn off the output can it? There are no fets available for in/output protection, or am I missing something?. Edited November 23, 2021 by enaon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, enaon said: You mean it is turning off the charging input? Correct. 17 minutes ago, enaon said: It cannot turn off the output Correct. The Gotway BMS design from MSX and MSP cannot turn off its high-power output. But it does have FETs to turn off its charging input More detail here (lots of details... patience is a virtue...) 9 minutes ago, enaon said: yet on the motor port, no fets exists, a short there is a blowup, do you agree? Right, so if the controller has a short, the battery will not stop it. Typically the controller melts, sometimes spectacularly (sparks, smoke, and "popcorn sounds"). But also note: there have been no reported instances of a battery fire directly initiated by a controller failing. Perhaps a burned controller causes some internal damage to the battery, which results in a fire at a later time during the EUC's life... it's certainly not good, but also still theoretical. In 2020 Gotway began adding fuses in the output wires to address this risk. Now in 2021, the latest Gotway packs have added the FETs in the BMS to do output interruption (which is why Adam is suggesting 'get new EUCs'...) Edited November 23, 2021 by RagingGrandpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enaon Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 37 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said: Right, so if the controller has a short, the battery will not stop it. Typically the controller melts, sometimes spectacularly (sparks, smoke, and "popcorn sounds"). But also note: there have been no reported instances of a battery fire directly initiated by a controller failing. Perhaps a burned controller causes some internal damage to the battery, which results in a fire at a later time during the EUC's life... it's certainly not good, but also still theoretical. In 2020 Gotway began adding fuses in the output wires to address this risk. Now in 2021, the latest Gotway packs have added the FETs in the BMS to do output interruption (which is why Adam is suggesting 'get new EUCs'...) I see, but ok, with the level of wiring job inside a gotway, betting that the motherboard will fail before the cables melt to a short somewhere before along the line, is not a safe bet I think. Motor output control is a must, is it good that it is now added, thank you for the info. I agree with your main point, WrongWay and battery innerworkings do not seem to go very well as far as those two last videos of him tell Edited November 23, 2021 by enaon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunTech4Real Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 11 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said: I watched the whole video. It motivated me to reply here: This was a big miss by Wrongway. (Does Adam have an a forum username here?) In brief, my problems with his long story are: Assertion that the charging input of Gotway BMS is unprotected or unsafe. Especially including his statement "If water gets in the charging port while you're riding, the wheel will cut out, like it did to me." Completely untrue! Gotway BMS protects the charge port from overcurrent and short circuits safely and effectively. I have tried it myself, by intentionally shorting the charging port while riding the EUC. The charge port disabled itself due to the short, and the EUC continued running without a hiccup. I completely believe Adam experienced a cutout during wet weather, but his claim of the cause is just wrong. Lack of constructive advice. After all his criticism of the pack design, the only advice Adam offered viewers was 'get rid of your old Gotway' (paraphrased). A big missed opportunity to discuss fire safety and preparedness! Even if you buy a shiny new EUC including a battery in an immersion-rated box and an output-interrupting BMS, cell fires are still possible. Knowing what they're like and what to do if one happens is universally-applicable knowledge. Fostering an idea that 'new EUC's won't burn, don't worry' is harmful! I liked the video. Adam did a good job of not saying inaccurate things compared to his other videos. I think that the Gotway BMS (in the 900 Wh packs) is not sufficiently physically protected. The way they throw the cells and BMS in some shrink wrap and then use a tiny amount of foam to secure it between some plastic panels inside an enclosure that is not even close to being waterproof is not safe. For comparison, my electric scooters have a similar battery pack that is just wrapped in some shrink wrap, but that battery pack is then put inside a thick metal box that is waterproof (the deck of the scooter). That waterproof metal box is what makes the pack safe, and if the cells somehow did catch on fire, that metal box might contain the fire (I'd love for someone to test it). Inmotion and KingSong wheels made in the last year or two (I'm not sure about older ones) have their batteries and BMS laid out in a way that is massively safer than the Gotway wheels (note: the Sherman uses a battery layout that doesn't look very safe, but the Abrams packs look much safer, similar to KingSong/Inmotion). There is not a lot of constructive advice to offer when you bought a Gotway wheel that might catch on fire. The main reason I really like Adam's video is he has a lot of power due to his large audience. He is using that power to call out Gotway for making products that are unsafe. How many more wheels have to catch on fire before Gotway steps up their safety? Is someone going to have to die in a fire caused by an EUC For things to finally change? I hope not, maybe if Adam can put enough pressure on Gotway then things will change (its at least worth a try). Also, regarding the charging port shortage causing a cutout: We cannot assume that all Gotway wheels of the same model or even the same batch are going to behave the same way. Gotway has serious quality issues and their products often have inconsistent issues within the same model. Example: My RS19 HT delivered in July 2021 beeps every time I hit 28 MPH. I've done everything you can think of to turn these beeps off but nothing works. It should not beep at 28 MPH, but it does, and I can't find anyone else who has the same issue with this wheel. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) The EX.N of a friend stopped charging at 96.6V. Yesterday his packs got checked and one of the cell groups was damaged. Why that happened? not sure. The only potential reason is that the wheel fell off its stand before the last ride. Discussing what would be the options now, my suggestion was: "let's look into where to buy a LiTech replacement pack". Because 2 of these packs instead of 3 is still an improvement I guess. I started to ask around but didn't get a positive answer yet. But essentially that's what I think should happen: don't throw your Gotway/Begode wheel in the back of the garage to forget about it. Don't sell it either to someone else who might not understand the risk. Replace the packs with better ones as much as your budget allows, and re-sell the current packs to a shop which will give a 2nd life to the cells. And if your dealer plans a recall, then that's a lot better. Edited November 23, 2021 by supercurio 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_bike_kite Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 54 minutes ago, sevin7 said: maybe if Adam can put enough pressure on Gotway then things will change If we everyone keeps saying bad things about the company Gotway then the actual company, Begode, probably doesn't care too much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizra6ot Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 I think there is a lot of FUD, for those who are afraid and will get rid of their gotway wheels despite the low percentage recorded, with the dozens of possible causes of domestic fires that happen every day I hope you do not live in an apartment but in a cabin in the woods without electricity stove or candle, be careful with falling trees and lightning though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothamMike Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Begode has had serious QA issues for years. Several Begode/GW people left to form Veteran. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_bike_kite Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Oddly I think my Nikola Plus is actually very well made. I don't like the case material as it's prone to scratches or the rear light but everything else about it is quite classy including how it's put together. I would like this battery issue sorted though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post conecones Posted November 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2021 12 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said: I watched the whole video. It motivated me to reply here: This was a big miss by Wrongway. (Does Adam have an a forum username here?) In brief, my problems with his long story are: Assertion that the charging input of Gotway BMS is unprotected or unsafe. Especially including his statement "If water gets in the charging port while you're riding, the wheel will cut out, like it did to me." Completely untrue! Gotway BMS protects the charge port from overcurrent and short circuits safely and effectively. I have tried it myself, by intentionally shorting the charging port while riding the EUC. The charge port disabled itself due to the short, and the EUC continued running without a hiccup. I completely believe Adam experienced a cutout during wet weather, but his claim of the cause is just wrong. Lack of constructive advice. After all his criticism of the pack design, the only advice Adam offered viewers was 'get rid of your old Gotway' (paraphrased). A big missed opportunity to discuss fire safety and preparedness! Even if you buy a shiny new EUC including a battery in an immersion-rated box and an output-interrupting BMS, cell fires are still possible. Knowing what they're like and what to do if one happens is universally-applicable knowledge. Fostering an idea that 'new EUC's won't burn, don't worry' is harmful! Unconstructive sensationalism! Boo this man! But let's blame Adam first I agree. I think his intent was good - to draw more attention to Gotway/Begode QC issues, but he should have just stuck with the basics instead of getting into the technical details which is not his expertise. He is a reviewer/influencer and a 2 min video of him announcing he is selling all his Gotways because of fear of battery issues would have the same effect. There is no need to justify or "confirm" the poor build quality when this has been common knowledge for a while. The more technical details he gets into, the more risk of him making a mistake or wrong explanation and then the Gotway fanboys will laser focus on that one technical mistake/explanation and the overall message gets drowned out. I am happy that finally a mainstream influencer is putting pressure on Gotway by way of real action/leading by example, and not just the throwing in the typical disclaimer "well the quality is bad but the ride is amazing, so if you are OK with that, then I still recommend it". Kudos to Adam for stepping up and saying enough is enough. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 More information about the fires in Stockholm that destroyed a house and an apartment would be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mrd777 Posted November 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2021 Hey @Jason McNeil, we all appreciate this recall and understand the logistics with global shipping currently, however can you outline a general schedule how and when these 900wh packs can be exchanged?, price & timing?... even disposing these packs seems complicated etc. Im obviously anxious to get another battery for my MSP. Thanks for putting this all together! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tawpie Posted November 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2021 I think that Adam's video made some good points and do believe he was pretty clear that Begode has improved the situation with their newer battery packs. I also believe that much of the angst driving his divorcing Begode is "loss of trust". In the same way that Ford knowingly sold the Pinto long after they knew it was relatively easy for it to catch on fire following an accident, Begode, up until recently, produced and sold battery packs that lack a fundamental safety feature and also include a few "obviously not the best idea" design elements. We all know that rider thrill and excitement is the Begode brand. We can inspect a wheel and see that they're not as concerned about build quality as their competitors. Adam is pointing out that they have been willing (past tense) to make design choices that appear aimed at reducing manufacturing cost or increasing performance even when those choices reduce rider safety. The only motivation for Begode to change and improve is the specter of lost sales. We set the bar. I suspect that eWheel's decision last year to not sell Begode wheels with the factory batteries is part of the motivation that drove Begode's recent safety improvement—customers (eWheels is a large Begode customer) can force changes... I'm hoping Adam's video at least makes Begode think about starting their own recall program, and perhaps about how they can innovate to provide the performance we cherish without the safety sacrifices of today's designs. Who knows, maybe? 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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