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Installing a 240v pure sinewave inverter in an RS19


xiiijojjo

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You know how the RS19 has only a battery and a piezo on the one side leaving tons of room that may just be sufficient space for some brand or model of 220-240v inverter (whichever is the eu standard). Especially if i first moved the piezo to the mainboard side first to give me maximum space on the other side.

The inverter wouldn't need to be capable of outputting more than 300w continuous (600w would be nice) as i would only need it to charge things like a high-end laptop and a small battery station.

I'm just not really an electrician and 90% of what i know about electrical installations and electricity in general is from this forum. So once again i have to request some help in how to go about this.

 

 

First i need the inverter to be able to be powered even if the euc is not. So i would need an incomplete wiring diagram to inform me where the + and - of the inverter needs go.

I know size of the inverter is a concern but honestly i think i'll tear it down and mount the inverter mainboard to the inside on the euc much in the same fashion as the mainboard on the other side of the euc. Then i can throw away the big aluminium casing and just install a few fans in there.

I will also take this chance to install a 1-9A adjustable charger which again is much too large so i would remove the aluminium in the same fashion as with the inverter and simply mount the pcb and then fans around it. 

The input wire from the charger would be removed to add a longer one and that would be rolled up on one of those retractable spool systems many vacuums use to retract cable and this would be fitted on the inside amidst the two mounted pcb's. The male plug when retracted would rest inside the body of the euc, to avoid damage or inconvenience. The output wire from the charger would be internally connected to one of the charge ports in the front panel of the euc.

The input from inverter comes from the batteries somewhere. For me i think making XT 60 or 90 connectors (forgot which ones the RS uses) for the inverter wires would make it the most user friendly and easy to connect/disconnect in the future.

I wonder... would it be as easy as just taking the + and - wires of the inverter and somehow crimping them into an XT connector, making an XT Y-slitter cable and connecting the inverter in one prong, the batteries in another and the mainboard in the 3rd? If so i may already know more about all this electric stuff than i thought :roflmao:

Both the inverter output and the charger input would be recessed into the euc body and have a waterproof spring-loaded lid that would be as flush as possible with the side panel when installed as to not have bulky protrusions on the euc. Power button for inverter along with amperage knob and simple inverter display all goes under the carry handle. 

 

This mod is going to hopefully be the start of some serious off-grid living if you are wondering.

I would appreciate any help in ironing out kinks or issues with this idea before even getting started as i have limited electrical ability.

Also i know LiFePo4 is better for the kind of system i'm talking about in regards to safety long term. But i own a Gotway so LFP or not i'm still in danger :roflmao:. This is to be a short term thing until i have a proper off-grid solution. 

edit: a concern of mine: all of the inverters i have found seem to want to take either 12v or 24v but i need it to take 100.8v

i see the rs19 mainboard has an unused 12v connector. I wonder what amperage it can take. I wonder if i can use it for an inverter considering most run off 12v.

Edited by xiiijojjo
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A similar project was undertaken by a forum member, but that one was an external inverter. I think it was successful but you'd need an older GW wheel without diode protection on the charge port in order to copy its implementation.

Be sure to take into consideration that in general, inverters are expecting that they will live their lives attached to something immovable. Make sure your inverter is intended for mobile (automotive?) applications—try to focus on things designed for the vibration and shock environment a wheel will see. Mounting could be interesting if the inverter is at all heavy. Likewise, pay attention to the inverter's operating environmental limits. The inverter will need to stay cool and this may be your biggest challenge.

I would not expect to be able to take much power off of the internal 12V power bus, designing it to power much more than what's built into the wheel would add cost and we know how that turns out. 300-400W is a beefy 12V supply, and the ones in wheels definitely aren't that capable.

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After doing a bunch of research i understand how to install an inverter in a car among other places. 

However i still have the problem of the relatively uncommon voltage of 100.8v whereas cars and rv's typically use either 12,24 or even 48v. DC

But what is the next step, 96v? Even then i'd need an inverter with a voltage such that it can still be powered from the euc even if the euc's batteries are in a low or high state of charge.

Any suggestions for what kind of hardware i'm looking for? adjustable converter, inverter combo? I'm a little lost here.

after finding many things the simplest seems https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000794016570.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.64473c00VLnp8m&mp=1

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002390608339.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.5c593c004EC4J6&mp=1

assuming the voltage in the battery goes from 100.8v (100%) down to 75.6v (0%) the 72v version of this inverter should be properly sized right?

It says the voltage range on this inverter is 60-90VDC. Would that mean i would have to discharge my euc to 90V before i can use the inverter? 

Edited by xiiijojjo
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You need a step down, wide input range DC-DC converter to take the raw battery voltage down to 24v. Then run your inverter from 24v. Just make sure that the step down converter can handle the load that the inverter will demand.

The step down converter should be common, but unlikely to have been designed for outdoor use. I believe it will be relatively easy to find because household (US) mains voltages are converted to DC by rectifying the AC to 90-110V (although designers will often reduce the rectified voltage by stepping down the AC in the isolation transformer) and then down converting.

Do your experimenting with a current limited DC power supply, not a battery pack. You don’t want a failed experiment to ruin a thousand dollar battery!

Edited by Tawpie
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So i'm thinking i need the 50A version of this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001828109923.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.18.5fac6fc9adQTx1
for it to be able to output 600w which is the typical peak for 300w inverters.

Along side it i would then of course need to decide which model of 12v inverter to go with it as it is a 48-120VDC to 12VDC model.

what do you think @Tawpie?

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That looks pretty good @xiiijojjo. I'd source your inverter first (sized for the AC load of course), then look at its spec to see how much peak DC input current is required. Once you know how much current your inverter will demand you can size the DC-DC converter (with 20% more power available than you'll "need", you don't want to push this stuff to the limit).

Plan on something between the DC-DC converter and your battery—one of the failure modes of a buck converter is to short the input to the load, which often shorts the load... you don't want that to result in a short circuit across your battery. Some BSMs will handle a short across the battery terminals, but until you know for certain that your battery pack is short circuit protected, it's not worth taking the chance! Fuses are very slow to operate but if its all you got it's better than nothing. Buck converters don't short that often, but we're not talking about space qualified hardware here.

Edited by Tawpie
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This is all great infomation! Safety is important so i really appreciate you taking this into account :) 

So i have two options depending on what can actually fit into the RS. Either a 300W AC output setup or a 600w AC output setup. 

 

300W setup: 

inverter:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002779518981.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.13b52ed1BG8PA0&algo_pvid=22cbded1-5724-44c7-8983-524abd6a786a&algo_exp_id=22cbded1-5724-44c7-8983-524abd6a786a-44&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000025601287685"} (12V 300W/600W peak)

converter: 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10000159552278.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1b4b3c001xGYuh&mp=1 (60A or 720W output)

Would this be safe?

 

600W setup:

inverter:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002390402082.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.5d2a2f9bdysFeD&algo_pvid=7e771239-97e8-4fe1-a307-a8ecdf8aad33&algo_exp_id=7e771239-97e8-4fe1-a307-a8ecdf8aad33-6&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000021631844535"} (12V 600W/1200W peak)

converter:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10000148476264.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.1.40656fc91JlShA (125A or 1500W)

Same thinking as above. In this setup i just wouldn't run the inverter beyond 600W output or 50% size of converter output, making this setup safe?

 

edit: by having "something"  between the converter and battery you would mean a properly size fuse right?

Edited by xiiijojjo
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  • 5 months later...

I have come up with another approach to this having had some time to think and research. 
I'm gonna go ahead and scrap the internal part of this idea and go for building an external box instead, one that I can connect to the EUC. 
Essentially I want to build a modern power station (think Ecoflow delta or higher) just without a battery. A contained and waterproof unit consisting of an inverter, a converter, and an MPPT solar charge controller. That way I could just hook this battery-less power station to the EUC and I'd have a power station with 1800Wh of capacity that I'm not willing to pay Ecoflow for. 


I need an MPPT controller capable of 800w, an inverter capable of 2000w continuous loads 4000w peaks, I'm not sure about how many amps the converter would need considering the need for pulling 2000w cont 4000w peak.
I should be able to pull 2000-4000w out of the battery safely right? Afaik charging the rs19 should only be done at 800w max however when it comes to discharging the battery I'm not sure about the safe limits.

Edited by xiiijojjo
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  • 1 month later...
On 10/16/2021 at 12:15 AM, Tawpie said:

A similar project was undertaken by a forum member, but that one was an external inverter. 

Where is this project? I would like to read up on it to see everything involved since I would like to have an external inverter for my Kingsong 16X.

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6 minutes ago, Michael Vu said:

Where is this project?

 

But it won't work "as described" on a 16X because the 16X charge ports are not live (you can't pull current out of them). But all you need to do is to tap into the battery supply and bring it to an external connector (I would tap in after the parallel connection is made to avoid draining 1 battery, that would be very very bad).

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