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KS S20 126V Requirement Debate?


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Honestly i dont know nothing about 126V vs 100V i just keep belive engeners and how 126 EUC work in real world (incline test ,charging overherating).

For me is important i need one more charger 126V this is what i know and understand becasue charging under 8A on EUC "TRIP" is just pain.

This is what reality tech me.

Teoretical mas*****tion about 126 VS 100 is not my type of p**n. ( humor/satiristic/joke)

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Yes, the use of the term "density" is incorrect.

 five times the energy and six times the power of its Panasonic-built 2170 cells....... the larger 4680 has nearly 5.5 times the volume, simply due to larger dimensions

 

 

 

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On 10/13/2021 at 2:15 PM, Jason McNeil said:

There is quite a lot of buzz surronding the 126V battery pack on the S20, but I haven't been able to find much in the way of dissenting voices of whether this ambitious specification is necessary, desired & what trade-offs would be the consequence of this 30s4p pack configuration. 

Another dissenting voice here! Personally I don't think 126V is really necessary. My 100V Nik+ seems to have more power than I'll ever need. The problem with going for a higher voltage is we're back to experimenting and initial buyers acting as guinea pigs. I do like that my Nik+ can charge in 6 hours using the 21700 batteries but I'll admit I'm worried about 100V Gotway wheels occasionally catching fire - I think we'd do better trying to get 100V wheels working reliably before upping the voltage again. I like the S20 but I'm not bothered by the 126V at all.

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42 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Perhaps you have a different definition of "reliably"? I mean things like the wheel doesn't have to be put outside to charge or left inside if it's raining etc. 

Yes correct, I would consider safety what's regarding the risk of fire, and weather-proofing how it handles the rain.

These 2 aspects are not particularly related to the battery pack & controller voltage, but are associated with electronics design / QC, and waterproofing in the design and assembly of the unit.

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I wouldn't be surprised if they tuck their tail between their legs and release the S20 as a 100v wheel. It still would be the best suspension wheel on the market.

Do I trust my well-being and quality of life to a company that aggressively markets a 126v wheel but who hasn't even produced a 100v wheel? :mellow:

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My understanding, regardless how the output of the energy system is used (either torque or speed), the same energy may be delivered either with higher voltage and lower current or lower voltage and higher current. If you decide to increase the voltage, you need to invest in insulation and distances with the higher risk of electric short circuit. If you decide to increase the current, you need to invest in conductors (current generates heats). This comes with a higher risk of damage due to the overheating. 

Similarly, motor with the same power may have either higher torque or higher speed. When choosing between the two you choose between greater number of windings (higher torque) or thicker windings (higher speed) with amount of conductor copper to be more or less equal in both cases. 

Of course, it is more complicated than just the combination of voltage-current and depends on motor geometry/efficiency, wheel radius, etc... 

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7 hours ago, wwwooooqq said:

Share a practical case that is easier to understand, the actual performance of high-torque motors and high-speed motors in the same model

 

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Maybe it's to give us full speed when the battery packs are at 10% of capacity. I hate the tilt back at 40% capacity.

Maybe it's for efficiency, since the speed is based on the average voltage of the pulses to the motor. With higher voltages, you can pulse less and achieve the same speeds.

Edited by joku
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I wonder why they went to 126v instead of 118v. So far for every new generation of wheel voltage, EUC manufacturers  just added 4 cells in series to the battery packs.

67V= 16S

84V= 20S

100V = 24S

there were rumors at one point with Gotway experimenting with 118V = 28S but decided against it. KS seems to want to make the jump all the way to a 30S battery pack and bypass 118V option.

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From 67 V to 84 V is 25% more voltage. From 84 V to 100 V it is 20% more and from 100 V to 126 V 26% more. From 100 V to 118 V would have been only 17 % increase. The KS's chosen voltage step is well in line with previous steps.

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1 hour ago, Eucner said:

From 67 V to 84 V is 25% more voltage. From 84 V to 100 V it is 20% more and from 100 V to 126 V 26% more. From 100 V to 118 V would have been only 17 % increase. The KS's chosen voltage step is well in line with previous steps.

Well King Song never made a 100v wheel before and that's why some Riders are sceptical if they can pull it off.

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But what if they have just accomplished that? The prototype Jack was riding and currently the other one from the Indonesian supplier are extremely likely to be 126V… :-)

What can be engineered, can also be manufactured. After all the “jump” we are talking is not that huge, I mean not like High Voltage or thousands of Amps… :-)

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Maybe they decided to skip a step because they were worried that always being the last to adopt a higher voltage was hurting their brand. Although, I'm worried it's just about bragging rights; reminiscent of the "chip wars" of the early 2000's and the competition to produce the highest clock speed (Hz). 

 

Also, this strategy distracts from the top speed (kph) competition which KS has all but ceded.

Analogy: Nevermind speed, it's all about multi-core these days...

Edited by RayRay
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On 10/14/2021 at 5:26 PM, RagingGrandpa said:

No!
100wh/kg.

Different strokes for different folks ;)

just example of tons of wonderfull battery projects in last years without final market existence.

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