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Addtl Link.

[RockyTop]

I don’t think they have ever been legal in NYC. ....... Not much is legal....... And it doesn’t really matter because no one follows the laws anyway. 

[Paul A]

The chart states:

Not Legal e-mobility devices.

The following are examples of illegal e-mobility devices.

Electric unicycle (two types).

 

In the chart, there is a panel titled "Laws and Safety", with statements of:

Yield to pedestrians.

Stay off the sidewalk.

Ride in the direction of traffic.

Stop at all red lights and stop signs.

 

There is no mention about nuances of a city allowing for disregard of traffic laws.

 

[houseofjob]

32 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

I don’t think they have ever been legal in NYC. ....... Not much is legal....... And it doesn’t really matter because no one follows the laws anyway. 

They've never been legal OR illegal in NYC, as the legalese is open-ended, with zero specific references to self-balancing one wheel device or "electric unicycle".

 

@/Dev/Null 

DMV, DOT, these are enforcers of the law, they do not DRAFT and PASS laws.

Hence, a random reference to Electric Unicycles as not legal in a random pamphlet, even if put out by NYC DOT, is not a law.

So....

Go the source, nysenate.gov, the site that Actually shows the law, the legalese.

Running a google search like this one for "electric unicycle" or "self-balancing", etc., you will only find really old bill proposals from back in the hoverboard debacle times ('16-'17) that never got moved past review status.

I have yet to find any passed bill making Electric Unicycles officially illegal in NYC.

so.....

It's still a grey area, as it has been from the beginning.

In reality/practice, NYPD will not stop you to "enforce" some idea that EUCs are illegal due to the grey-ness, the lack of desire to do the paperwork for such an unclear offense, and because there is no department directive specifically targeting EUCs.

In the past, before this ridiculous random pamphlet, when asked, NYPD has told our riders that, yes, electric unicycles are illegal (which is not totally true as I said), but they really won't be bothered pursuing EUC "offenses" (heck, I've seen many a car blow through red lights where NYPD was nearby and couldn't be bothered to stop those real offenses).

Edited August 6, 2021 by houseofjob

[RagingGrandpa]

"Rules of the City of New York" are the basis for NYC DOT regulations, fines, etc.

https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/newyorkcity/latest/NYCrules/0-0-0-61009
(search it for "pedal-assist" and it will reveal the e-bike language)

... and they don't mention esk8 or unicycle today.
 

8 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

It's still a grey area, as it's been from the beginning.

^ seems correct.

Edited August 6, 2021 by RagingGrandpa

[houseofjob]

3 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

"Rules of the City of New York" are the basis for NYC DOT regulations, fines, etc.

https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/newyorkcity/latest/NYCrules/0-0-0-61009

... and they don't mention esk8 or unicycle today.
 

^ seems correct.

Yup, this is my point. Cops here just assume it's illegal based on the escooter legislation etc, but have never read the laws. And EUC is still too small a ridership to matter, be carved out in real legislation/regulation.

The majority of Albany are latter age legislators that live in the burbs, drive cars, and probably have no clue what an electric unicycle is, let alone the implications.

Edited August 6, 2021 by houseofjob

[Paul A]

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2017/s332

senate Bill S332

2017-2018 Legislative Session

Bill Status - Stricken

 

[Paul A]

Is Brian Boyd known to the NY EUC community?

[houseofjob]

13 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Is Brian Boyd known to the NY EUC community?

Not that I know of. 

NYC EUC, esk8, Onyx/emoped, these communities have overlap and ride on different occasions together, but OneWheel, escooters, these seem to be more fragmented riderships, no real organization to unite them, especially for the escooters, where there are simply too many riders, and most are riding for commuting purposes only, not seeking the comraderie of group rides, recreational riding.

Edited August 6, 2021 by houseofjob

[Paul A]

Ok, thanks. 

Brian Boyd is the suspect arrested by NYPD for the death of Lisa Banes.

[houseofjob]

10 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Ok, thanks. 

Brian Boyd is the suspect arrested by NYPD for the death of Lisa Banes.

Yes, this is why I reference the escooter community. (or lack thereof)

Edited August 6, 2021 by houseofjob

[houseofjob]

Here is a much better look on this fake "crackdown" on PEV by a more knowledgeable NYC PEV advocate StreetsBlog NYC:

 

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/08/06/thursdays-headlines-its-fake-crackdown-season/

 

Friday’s Headlines: It’s Fake Crackdown Season

 

Been there, fake-cracked-downed on that.

The NYPD heralded its latest “Bicycle Safe Passage” ticket blitz at a press conference on Queens Boulevard on Thursday (which only Patch covered) to claim that officers from all 77 precincts would begin a weeklong ticket spree against drivers who block bike lanes, talk on their cellphones while driving, fail to yield to cyclists, etc.

And that would be nice … if it was real.

Fact is, the NYPD has been doing “safe passage” blitzes since 2016, and then as now, the stepped-up ticketing typically results in one or two more tickets written per day per precinct. (For scale, there have already been 61,005 crashes caused by car and truck drivers so far this year, roughly 290 per day).

We haven’t come very far since 2019, when Speaker Corey Johnson mocked the NYPD’s periodic blitzes as ineffective in lieu of what we really need: automated enforcement, consistent enforcement and zero tolerance for cops who themselves are among the worst drivers and parkers in town. (For scale, city speed cameras issued 1,835,775 speeding tickets in the first seven months this year, up from 620,533 in the same period of pre-pandemic 2019. This year’s figure is only slightly lower than the 2 million camera-issued tickets during the first seven, mostly pandemic, months of 2020, so it is clear that reckless driving has continued and automated enforcement holds far more drivers accountable than cops.)

Of course, it’s irrational to seek police enforcement to get us out of the current mess of chaotic, car-choked streets that have made 2021 the bloodiest year of Mayor de Blasio’s two terms. For instance, also on Thursday, the NYPD leaked to the Post (rather than making a wider splash) that it had arrested one of the masterminds of the fake temporary license plate scandal. (Hold your applause — there will be other such scammers to take his place.) The story noted (in the last paragraph, oddly) that the NYPD claims it has towed nearly 3,892 cars with the fake paper plates since July 1 — which is a lot, though only 800 cars were not later retrieved by their owners. Doing the math, it means that the cops got a few hundred likely bad drivers off the road. Not a lot, but it’s a start.

In another Thursday story, the NYPD press office tweeted about its success in seizing 1,200 illegal dirt bikes and other forms of micromobility. All-terrain vehicles and “dirt bikes” are always illegal, but blanket enforcement of all the other forms of sustainable transportation can be a very blunt tool — the classic NYPD hammer that only seeks nails. The video shows plenty of super-fast and illegal machines, but also plenty that are, potentially, neither.

Indeed, some of the mopeds seized were no doubt owned by delivery people who now have lost their livelihood. Certainly, if the illegal moped rider was doing something reckless — like speeding, running red lights or driving on the already narrow Queensboro Bridge bike path — let’s have enforcement. But it’s a bad idea to default to a regime that puts cops in charge of taming streets that many people believe have become a Wild West due to an explosion of new devices, a boom in new users of said devices, state law that hasn’t kept up with the reality that delivery workers need these devices, an immigration system that treats the very workers we want following the law as illegal people, and a Department of Transportation that forces moped users to break the rules if they don’t want to ride on streets that give virtually all space cars and trucks rather than to the sustainable, electric vehicles that the DOT itself says are important part of the future if we are to continue living in a low-lying, waterfront city as the planet warms.

Whew.

Yes, enforcement is one tool. But the best tools — serious car-reduction strategies to make our roadways safe and less polluted by encouraging electric mobility and, yes, bringing mopeds out of the cold (which would then keep them out of the bike lanes and off the sidewalk) — remain in a dust-covered de Blasio toolbox.

 

[RockyTop]

25 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Ok, thanks. 

Brian Boyd is the suspect arrested by NYPD for the death of Lisa Banes.

Was it even a scooter? Now they are saying it was a Fairthorpe motorcycle. I looked up Fairthorpe motorcycle and found a little car that might classify as a motorcycle in the US because of safety standards. So was it a scooter or a tiny antique car? I don’t know. 

[Paul A]

Fairthorpe motorcycle.

It is a developing story. 

The arrest was announced around midnight NY local time, only about 12 hours ago.

More information and research by reporters will probably come to light over the following days.

[Scubadragonsan]

When you get cited and found guilty in court, then it is illegal. Otherwise, anything goes these days! Running over anyone is definitely never legal!

[Skeptikos]

After taking a closer look at the laws, I'm starting to think street riding is technically illegal in NY and has been illegal the entire time. The issue is that we're riding unregistered motor vehicles on the highway. Certain types of vehicles are exempt, like snowmobiles, but unicycles don't fall into any of the exempt categories.

Here are the relevant laws and definitions:
 

Spoiler

Here's the definition of "motor vehicle":

Quote

§ 125. Motor vehicles. Every vehicle operated or driven upon a public highway which is propelled by any power other than muscular power, except (a) electrically-driven mobility assistance devices operated or driven by a person with a disability, (a-1) electric personal assistive mobility devices operated outside a city with a population of one million or more, (b) vehicles which run only upon rails or tracks, (c) snowmobiles as defined in article forty-seven of this chapter, (d) all terrain vehicles as defined in article forty-eight-B of this chapter, (e) bicycles with electric assist as defined in section one hundred two-c of this article, and (f) electric scooters as defined in section one hundred fourteen-e of this article. For the purposes of title four of this chapter, the term motor vehicle shall exclude fire and police vehicles other than ambulances. For the purposes of titles four and five of this chapter the term motor vehicles shall exclude farm type tractors and all terrain type vehicles used exclusively for agricultural purposes, or for snow plowing, other than for hire, farm equipment, including self-propelled machines used exclusively in growing, harvesting or handling farm produce, and self-propelled caterpillar or crawler-type equipment while being operated on the contract site.

Unicycles don't count as "electric personal assistive mobility devices" or electric scooters due to only having one wheel and no handlebars, among other things. The result is that electric unicycles are motor vehicles according to NY state law.

Quote

§ 114-d. Electric personal assistive mobility device. Every self-balancing, two non-tandem wheeled device designed to transport one person by means of an electric propulsion system with an average output of not more than seven hundred fifty watts (one horsepower), and the maximum speed of which on a paved level surface, when propelled solely by its electric propulsion system while ridden by an operator weighing one hundred seventy pounds, is less than twelve and one-half miles per hour.

 

Quote

§ 114-e. Electric scooter. Every device weighing less than one hundred pounds that (a) has handlebars, a floorboard or a seat that can be stood or sat upon by the operator, and an electric motor, (b) can be powered by the electric motor and/or human power, and (c) has a maximum speed of no more than twenty miles per hour on a paved level surface when powered solely by the electric motor.

Electric unicycles, as motor vehicles, need to be registered to legally ride on the roads:

Quote

§ 401. Registration of motor vehicles; fees; renewals. 1. Registration by owners. a. No motor vehicle shall be operated or driven upon the public highways of this state without first being registered in accordance with the provisions of this article, except as otherwise expressly provided in this chapter.

Here, "public highway" means pretty much any public road:

Quote

§ 134. Public highway. Any highway, road, street, avenue, alley, public place, public driveway or any other public way.

Driving an unregistered motor vehicle can be punished with fines and/or brief imprisonment:

Quote

§ 401. 18. A violation of subdivision one of this section shall be punishable by a fine of not less than seventy-five nor more than three hundred dollars, or by imprisonment for not more than fifteen days, or by both such fine and imprisonment except, if the violation consists of failure to renew a registration which was valid within sixty days, the fine shall be not less than forty dollars.

 

So it sounds like we would have problems if the police ever decide we're worth stopping.

I'd also guess the laws are similar in many other states.

Really, though, we should probably get a traffic lawyer to help us parse all this if we want a serious legal opinion.

[.....]

12 minutes ago, Skeptikos said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Here's the definition of "motor vehicle":

Unicycles don't count as "electric personal assistive mobility devices" or electric scooters due to only having one wheel and no handlebars, among other things. The result is that electric unicycles are motor vehicles according to NY state law.

 

Electric unicycles, as motor vehicles, need to be registered to legally ride on the roads:

Here, "public highway" means pretty much any public road:

Driving an unregistered motor vehicle can be punished with fines and/or brief imprisonment:

 

So it sounds like we would have problems if the police ever decide we're worth stopping.

I'd also guess the laws are similar in many other states.

Really, though, we should probably get a traffic lawyer to help us parse all this if we want a serious legal opinion.

THIS is the solution. If yuo want to know for sure for YOUR area, find an attorney and pay him a fortune. Of course, its all subject to interpretation, and interpretation of local law is easily effected by the weather forecast of the day. A better scenario would likely be to wait until you are charged with a crime and THEN pay a lawyer. Between the lawyer and the judge, it will be made prefectly clear to you.

I think its best to just NOT poke the bear for now. Even if you do have a perfect grasp on the law, we all know that the law is somewhat fluid and changes in a moments notice. There's also laws as defined by city, county, state, country. Tbh, its a complete cluster*uck and the vague nature of it is to our advantage as riders for now. Sometimes its easier to ask forgiveness than it is permission...

Edited August 6, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Skeptikos]

We're definitely benefiting from the police's lack of interest right now. I don't think inquiring about the law is going to "poke the bear", though. If anything it demonstrates that you're a responsible rider that the police can safely ignore.

[xSAMCOx]

One wheels and EUCs is now illegal in New York is true. 

[.....]

1 hour ago, Skeptikos said:

We're definitely benefiting from the police's lack of interest right now. I don't think inquiring about the law is going to "poke the bear", though. If anything it demonstrates that you're a responsible rider that the police can safely ignore.

OR, it presses the issue and makes it clear that you ARE violating law. If you didnt think it may be illegal, why would you even ask? Ignorance is no excuse, but it sometimes grants leeway when available. I tend to NOT bring things to the attention of LEO, IF I think the outcome would not favor me, OR I have little intention of compliance either way. Far be it from me to keep asking the local leo to look up and clarify the murky law about euc on public streets. I'd imagine if i proded them enough and they DID look, they would find SOMETHING to apply to my request and I wouldnt favor the outcome. When in doubt, don't ask, as the cops probably won't ask either. Act right, smile and enforcement becomes what matters, not the legal definition. At least thats how it goes around here 99% of the time.

If i lived somewhere I was constantly being watched and it would be inevitable I'm gna come in contact with robbers and cops, I'd be buying cheaper wheels, used wheels and wheels that didnt cost me 2 months salary, thats for sure!

Edited August 6, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Skeptikos]

Haha yeah, I definitely wouldn't ask the cops. They aren't lawyers anyway. Don't tempt fate. But DOT bureaucrats or lawyers or the DMV or whatever, sure.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Skeptikos

[Menace]

The way I see it is that it would be pointless for them to ban PEVs because no-one will follow the rules. Even if laws are made regulating power out puts, speeds, or just banning certain PEVs I think it will be like jaywalking. The cops won't care whatsoever as long as you aren't being really dangerous.

[.....]

1 hour ago, Menace said:

The way I see it is that it would be pointless for them to ban PEVs because no-one will follow the rules. Even if laws are made regulating power out puts, speeds, or just banning certain PEVs I think it will be like jaywalking. The cops won't care whatsoever as long as you aren't being really dangerous.

I agree. However, one must consider the financial ramifications and/or guilt applied, should some serious incident occur that causes loss of life or financial loss in excess. No DOUBT that if euc's were considered 'illegal' and you were involved in an accident with a motorist, you could find yourself to blame, regardless of circumstance. It aint fair but similar has happened. Kind of like blaming an uninsured driver for ANY accidents, even if an insured driver was at fault. I don't follow the logic, as couldnt we also blame both parties for getting out of bed that day? 

Edited August 7, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Flying W]

It's going to be a long up hill battle to get these EUCs moved to the left on that chart. 

LEOs may ignore us, but Shane's right, if there is a collision and one party is on an "illegal" device, even if the car hit you, you will be in the wrong. 

Sad thing is the EUC is way safer for the public than a rental scooter (I'd say even an owned scooter is more dangerous) but money talks and rental companies pay, we don't. 

I just moved jobs too, mainly so I could ride to work again. So far out here in CA we're not even on the radar and LEOs just smile and wave, or want ask you all kinds of questions and occasionally try to stand on it. 

My new commute is 12.5 miles one way so plenty of time to be seen if the van hammer comes.

[Menace]

42 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I agree. However, one must consider the financial ramifications and/or guilt applied, should some serious incident occur that causes loss of life or financial loss in excess. No DOUBT that if euc's were considered 'illegal' and you were involved in an accident with a motorist, you could find yourself to blame, regardless of circumstance. It aint fair but similar has happened. Kind of like blaming an uninsured driver for ANY accidents, even if an insured driver was at fault. I don't follow the logic, as couldnt we also blame both parties for getting out of bed that day? 

Yep, I fear you are right and it is really unfair IMO. Life isn't fair though, so I guess one just has to deal with it. Ride defensively. I am actually quite sure that in the long term PEVs will be made fully legal, but it is the short term (10-15 years) that I am concerned about.