Popular Post mrelwood Posted August 29, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 29, 2021 Finally got to try the V12 for the first time. I knew it would be good, but I was surprised. It actually felt really really good! This is coming from a 193cm tall, 103kg guy that is soon at 6000km on the V11. Inmotion V12 first impressions (from a non-owner) This V12 did not yet have the FW with the split modes on it, but Commuter @ 70% felt pretty much perfect for me for both accelerating as well as braking. Would’ve been interesting to try though, who knows if the “perfect” would’ve been upgraded. The owner has only owned the Z10 before, so naturally he felt that the V12 was a bit top heavy, which some people have said as well. I didn’t feel it though. Actually I’d guess that the top heaviness some people have reported may come from being unfamiliar with the C-1488 tire. It is usually the most narrow feeling tire of it’s size group, and it can easily feel unstable and not as planted as others. The pressure was a bit too low for me though, so the wheel did feel somewhat planted. A low pressure 16” tire was probably the main factor in making the wheel feel surprisingly much like an 18”. Once I lowered the pedal sensitivity from 100% to 70%, I didn’t feel much need for power pads on level ground. I don’t think I passed even 40km/h on it though, so faster speeds and bad terrain would probably change my feeling on this. The handle wasn’t as practical as the V11, as it didn’t have a spring to lift it up as the trigger is pressed. Other than that I’d say that it felt very similar. It was reasonably easy to lift up for a heavy wheel, since the handle is sturdy and comfortable. The touch display worked really well, although the wheel must be perfectly stationary or it won’t accept changing the settings. I didn’t check if the brightness can be adjusted, but if it can’t, the display is quite dark making it a bit impractical on a sunny day. Then the ride feel. Oh man! I didn’t think I could like a 16” non-suspension wheel this much! The ride feel is in a completely different level compared to for example the S18 and the Monster Pro, and several large steps above Veteran Sherman as well. On flat ground I must admit that it feels a bit better than even the V11. Inmotion is the only manufacturer that has figured out how to completely avoid pedal dip in turns. They also have the most natural feeling riding “modes”, where you don’t feel the wheel doing something. I know that being familiar with the V11 would take the bottom out from such a comment if I hadn’t felt the exact same thing the first time I got on the V11 as well. Having ridden 14k km on the MSX, the riding modes still felt wonky, like all GotWays do. 9k on the 16S, and I can still feel as if the FW was trying to guess how to behave, and every now and then it guesses a tiny bit wrong and has to compensate slightly. Nothing like that on the modern Inmotions, from the first minute of riding. No multi-thousand km required to recognize this. And I still can’t feel anything like that even after 6k on the V11. The ride feel on the V11 and V12 is definitely the creamy top of the current markets. Having a slider for pedal sensitivity instead of only the ancient three ride modes sure doesn’t hurt. It will be embarrassing if KS doesn’t overhaul their adjustments for the S20. If the V12 had a suspension that was even a minor upgrade over the one on the V11, I don’t know how I’d be able to avoid buying the V12 right away. Magnificent wheel, all the way! 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Wow, great write up, and a great endorsement from someone who is very detail oriented too. Thanks Meep! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjam.nyc Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 2 hours ago, mrelwood said: Finally got to try the V12 for the first time. I knew it would be good, but I was surprised. It actually felt really really good! This is coming from a 193cm tall, 103kg guy that is soon at 6000km on the V11. Inmotion V12 first impressions (from a non-owner) This V12 did not yet have the FW with the split modes on it, but Commuter @ 70% felt pretty much perfect for me for both accelerating as well as braking. Would’ve been interesting to try though, who knows if the “perfect” would’ve been upgraded. The owner has only owned the Z10 before, so naturally he felt that the V12 was a bit top heavy, which some people have said as well. I didn’t feel it though. Actually I’d guess that the top heaviness some people have reported may come from being unfamiliar with the C-1488 tire. It is usually the most narrow feeling tire of it’s size group, and it can easily feel unstable and not as planted as others. The pressure was a bit too low for me though, so the wheel did feel somewhat planted. A low pressure 16” tire was probably the main factor in making the wheel feel surprisingly much like an 18”. Once I lowered the pedal sensitivity from 100% to 70%, I didn’t feel much need for power pads on level ground. I don’t think I passed even 40km/h on it though, so faster speeds and bad terrain would probably change my feeling on this. The handle wasn’t as practical as the V11, as it didn’t have a spring to lift it up as the trigger is pressed. Other than that I’d say that it felt very similar. It was reasonably easy to lift up for a heavy wheel, since the handle is sturdy and comfortable. The touch display worked really well, although the wheel must be perfectly stationary or it won’t accept changing the settings. I didn’t check if the brightness can be adjusted, but if it can’t, the display is quite dark making it a bit impractical on a sunny day. Then the ride feel. Oh man! I didn’t think I could like a 16” non-suspension wheel this much! The ride feel is in a completely different level compared to for example the S18 and the Monster Pro, and several large steps above Veteran Sherman as well. On flat ground I must admit that it feels a bit better than even the V11. Inmotion is the only manufacturer that has figured out how to completely avoid pedal dip in turns. They also have the most natural feeling riding “modes”, where you don’t feel the wheel doing something. I know that being familiar with the V11 would take the bottom out from such a comment if I hadn’t felt the exact same thing the first time I got on the V11 as well. Having ridden 14k km on the MSX, the riding modes still felt wonky, like all GotWays do. 9k on the 16S, and I can still feel as if the FW was trying to guess how to behave, and every now and then it guesses a tiny bit wrong and has to compensate slightly. Nothing like that on the modern Inmotions, from the first minute of riding. No multi-thousand km required to recognize this. And I still can’t feel anything like that even after 6k on the V11. The ride feel on the V11 and V12 is definitely the creamy top of the current markets. Having a slider for pedal sensitivity instead of only the ancient three ride modes sure doesn’t hurt. It will be embarrassing if KS doesn’t overhaul their adjustments for the S20. If the V12 had a suspension that was even a minor upgrade over the one on the V11, I don’t know how I’d be able to avoid buying the V12 right away. Magnificent wheel, all the way! Great first impressions glad you enjoyed the wheel. It really is a good one in my opinion Trust me the newer firmware is even better. It's not just the spilt ride modes, the motor feels tuned differently to me. The wheel gets up to speed even quicker and smoother. I also agree power pads are not really needed, once you find the right settings. It's good to hear impressions from a v11 rider on the v12. Was curious how they compare to each other! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 4 hours ago, Flying W said: Wow, great write up, and a great endorsement from someone who is very detail oriented too. Thanks! 4 hours ago, Flying W said: Thanks Meep! Yes, let’s thank him too! What about this time though? (Insert a joke about being or not being detail oriented enough… ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumblebees Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 How did the V12 handle accelerating up and down large slopes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted August 30, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Bumblebees said: How did the V12 handle accelerating up and down large slopes? Didn’t have the chance to try that, but accelerating on a very short shallow incline felt like there was no incline at all. The owner said that after the Z10 the V12 feels like it pulls you up even steep inclines like nothing. The S18 starts to grind and grunt very early when accelerating on flat pavement, but the V12 indeed felt like I wasn’t anywhere near the limit of the available power when doing fast pendulums or accelerating fast on flat. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeshwanth Akurathi Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Is the low end torque more powerful than the KS 16X and Nik+? @mrelwood You would have had experience with 16X and Nik+. So how would you think V12 compares to them in terms of torque...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Forsanger Posted August 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2021 22 hours ago, mrelwood said: Finally got to try the V12 for the first time. I knew it would be good, but I was surprised. It actually felt really really good! This is coming from a 193cm tall, 103kg guy that is soon at 6000km on the V11. Inmotion V12 first impressions (from a non-owner) This V12 did not yet have the FW with the split modes on it, but Commuter @ 70% felt pretty much perfect for me for both accelerating as well as braking. Would’ve been interesting to try though, who knows if the “perfect” would’ve been upgraded. The owner has only owned the Z10 before, so naturally he felt that the V12 was a bit top heavy, which some people have said as well. I didn’t feel it though. Actually I’d guess that the top heaviness some people have reported may come from being unfamiliar with the C-1488 tire. It is usually the most narrow feeling tire of it’s size group, and it can easily feel unstable and not as planted as others. The pressure was a bit too low for me though, so the wheel did feel somewhat planted. A low pressure 16” tire was probably the main factor in making the wheel feel surprisingly much like an 18”. Once I lowered the pedal sensitivity from 100% to 70%, I didn’t feel much need for power pads on level ground. I don’t think I passed even 40km/h on it though, so faster speeds and bad terrain would probably change my feeling on this. The handle wasn’t as practical as the V11, as it didn’t have a spring to lift it up as the trigger is pressed. Other than that I’d say that it felt very similar. It was reasonably easy to lift up for a heavy wheel, since the handle is sturdy and comfortable. The touch display worked really well, although the wheel must be perfectly stationary or it won’t accept changing the settings. I didn’t check if the brightness can be adjusted, but if it can’t, the display is quite dark making it a bit impractical on a sunny day. Then the ride feel. Oh man! I didn’t think I could like a 16” non-suspension wheel this much! The ride feel is in a completely different level compared to for example the S18 and the Monster Pro, and several large steps above Veteran Sherman as well. On flat ground I must admit that it feels a bit better than even the V11. Inmotion is the only manufacturer that has figured out how to completely avoid pedal dip in turns. They also have the most natural feeling riding “modes”, where you don’t feel the wheel doing something. I know that being familiar with the V11 would take the bottom out from such a comment if I hadn’t felt the exact same thing the first time I got on the V11 as well. Having ridden 14k km on the MSX, the riding modes still felt wonky, like all GotWays do. 9k on the 16S, and I can still feel as if the FW was trying to guess how to behave, and every now and then it guesses a tiny bit wrong and has to compensate slightly. Nothing like that on the modern Inmotions, from the first minute of riding. No multi-thousand km required to recognize this. And I still can’t feel anything like that even after 6k on the V11. The ride feel on the V11 and V12 is definitely the creamy top of the current markets. Having a slider for pedal sensitivity instead of only the ancient three ride modes sure doesn’t hurt. It will be embarrassing if KS doesn’t overhaul their adjustments for the S20. If the V12 had a suspension that was even a minor upgrade over the one on the V11, I don’t know how I’d be able to avoid buying the V12 right away. Magnificent wheel, all the way! Wow... this make me even more impatient to get my Inmotion V12, which is my first EUC ever....Makes waiting even harder 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted August 30, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2021 4 hours ago, Yeshwanth Akurathi said: Is the low end torque more powerful than the KS 16X and Nik+? @mrelwood You would have had experience with 16X and Nik+. So how would you think V12 compares to them in terms of torque...? It’s been a long time since I rode either, so I’m afraid I can’t confidently compare details this precise. I assume you are asking about zippiness, ie. the amount of effort it takes to accelerate. It’s not directly related to measurable torque, but that’s what people usually mean with “low end torque”. I do remember feeling on the Nik as if it was more slouchy than I expected. Meaning that it didn’t accelerate as effortlessly as I expected, even on medium and soft modes. This is a common trait of the GW riding mode programming across their models. The 16X has always felt a little twitchy to me, so I have never had a comfortable feel on it for accelerating quickly. I think the shell size and the shapes at the top of the shell are the issue for me here. When riding a 16X with pads, the pads weren’t located in a way that I could’ve fully utilized them either. With 100% pedal sensitivity the V12 did require much more effort, so it could’ve been comparable to the Nikola. But at 70% sensitivity the V12 accelerated with much less effort, despite not having enough pressure on the tire for my weight. I didn’t miss any pads at 70% sensitivity, and the wheel sits much nicer between my legs than the 16X and especially the Nikola. Overall I think that the amount of effort required is easiest to dial in on Inmotion wheels. Three riding modes (all other manufacturers) are either just not enough for finding a setting that makes the wheel feel like an extension to your body, or the softness on other wheels’ medium and soft modes doesn’t affect as much in the amount of effort required to accelerate. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conecones Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Thanks for this insightful review! I'm really interested in the ride mode implementation and how it relates to pedal dipping - are you able to expand on this a bit further? For example on my Gotway medium/soft mode, if I go into a corner hard, the pedal dips first as a result of me putting pressure on the front of the pedal during the corner, but it then stays there and can also dip further. How does the V12 behave in the corners when on a medium/soft pedal mode? On my Gotway hard mode, I get a very slight initial dip on the turn but then I feel the pedal rising to level out, but it can sometimes still dip again during the corner - this happens inconsistently. Also, how did you find the InMotion ride modes dealing with bumps on the road? One of the main reasons I ride soft mode on Nikola+ and suffer through the pedal scraping is due to the bump absorption needed given its smaller tire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mrd777 Posted August 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2021 7 hours ago, Yeshwanth Akurathi said: You would have had experience with 16X and Nik+. So how would you think V12 compares to them in terms of torque...? Ive owned both the 16x, and Nikola +, and currently own the V12. The V12, blows both those wheels away in values of torque and getting up to speed, no question! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jimjam.nyc Posted August 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2021 7 hours ago, Yeshwanth Akurathi said: Is the low end torque more powerful than the KS 16X and Nik+? @mrelwood You would have had experience with 16X and Nik+. So how would you think V12 compares to them in terms of torque...? I went from 16x to v12. I feel like the v12 gets up to speed a lot smoother and faster than the 16x for sure. I know there was a video of jack killing his v12 on a hill after 3 runs up and the 16x surviving, but I never saw a follow up as to what happened. I also haven't actively tried to kill any wheel by trying to torque things to the point of no return. In a real world situation from my experience I feel like the v12 beats out the 16x in low end torque. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted August 31, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 31, 2021 9 hours ago, conecones said: I'm really interested in the ride mode implementation and how it relates to pedal dipping - are you able to expand on this a bit further? I’m not sure if they are related. Ride modes on V10-V12 have two distinctly different in/out power curves called Commuter and Off-Road. Then the softness is adjusted separately with a slider going from 0 to 100. This sort of makes for a total of 202 riding modes, whereas others have only three. The V12 of course expands this to a whole new exponent with the separate softness for acceleration and braking. But I didn’t get to test them. With “pedal dipping” I referred to dipping forward while cornering, the exact phenomena you described. I don’t know what Inmotion does differently, but this simply just does not happen at all. If you scrape the pedal in a tight corner, the pedal scrapes only at the middle, not at the front corner. I think Inmotion has just been able to find a method to compensate much better for the sensor data that advises other wheels to dip. 9 hours ago, conecones said: How does the V12 behave in the corners when on a medium/soft pedal mode? No difference. Front to back it behaves as if there was no cornering/carving/tilting happening. 9 hours ago, conecones said: Also, how did you find the InMotion ride modes dealing with bumps on the road? If you only have more experience with the Nikola, I could write a really long analysis on GW pedal modes compared to other manufacturers. But let’s keep it short. GW Soft doesn’t absorb bumps as well as other manufacturers’ Soft modes, since GW Soft is still initially hard, and the “softness” allows the pedals to tilt only very slowly. If you start to accelerate, it takes a second or a few for the pedals to actually dip. ( and this second is what @houseofjob utilizes for his unique riding style). As if you were standing on a small boat: The wooden planks are still hard, but the boat can tilt slowly in the water. KS/IM Soft is more as if you were standing on a thick futon mattress. It tilts forward pretty much immediately as you start to lean. If you hit a root with a GW Soft, it will keep the pedal position unchanged and just plow over. This actually makes it initially very stable even on the worst of surfaces. (The pedals eventually dip badly on repeated bumps, but that’s another story…) If you hit a root with KS/IM Soft, it will give in immediately, and only accelerates over the root once the pedal tilt has increased. This has improved during the years, and they both now feel less as if they were struggling to get over the root. But they still dampen the initial jolt of the root much more than any GW. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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