EUC charge via solar panel

[Triexy]

Hi,

I am thinking to buy a Kingsong 18XL and want to know can I charge my wheel with a Solarpanel something like that https://www.amazon.com/ALLPOWERS-Charger-Technology-Portable-Notebooks/dp/B075YRKVMH

Or do I need something like https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Portable-Explorer-500-Generator-motorhome/dp/B08RNMX123/ref=pd_lpo_1?pd_rd_i=B08RNMX123&psc=1
I wish the first one will work, so I can loading if iam on the road

Greets and thx

[ArieKanarie]

The first link has a peak power output of 100W. Which would charge a 84V wheel maybe at around 1 amp (losses from the power brick included) and this would be at the most perfect conditions. normally it would probably charge at 0.5A which is extremely slow. Not worth it.

The second link could work, but it's only "518Wh" which would be okay if you had a small capacity wheel. I don't think the weight and size really helps you here either.

Your best solution would be to get an EV charger adapter so you can charge at car charging spots. Those adapters are cheap, light and you can easily use a quickcharger on those.
This is a cheap one on Aliexpress
Or make it yourself: https://www.arjantel.nl/diy-oplaadkabel (Google Chrome can translate the page for you)
You need some sort of subscription or card from a charge provider though

Edited August 20, 2021 by ArieKanarie

[.....]

My factory charger has input of 100V 2.5amp and an output of 84v 1.5amp.   I dont think it would be wise to try and feed 84v directly into the unicycle, as the chargers do tend to taper off. Safest bet would be to use an a/c power source that can supply a small factory charger. It would take a VERY sunny day and a large solar panel to push 100V 2amp a/c current. Keep in mind, it could take 10 hours to charge an 18XL from nearly flat. 100W at 18V DC  simply isnt going to cut it..

The "generator you linked", doesnt come with panels. Without them, its basically a voltage regulated battery pack. I would suspect that you are going to be hard pressed to beat LP gas or gasoline generator, in terms of reliable power source for something as hungry as an euc. I'd like to see someone who is good at the math, to let us know how much panel space it would take to supply 84v at 1.5amps. Maybe my 67v mten just got more valuable...

Edited August 20, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Triexy]

I dont need always fullpower its just to get 5 or 10% just for emergency to get a little more power to get home but my problem if i take only a solarpanel, I have one prblem they are all using usb and how can I use a usb to the factory charger? Thats why I thought I need a solarpanel and a powerstation but I want to have just a solarpanel. I want just to know how can I use a solarpanel to charge a wheel just can not find a suitable connection to connect the charger from the unicycle to the solar panel

Edited August 20, 2021 by Triexy

[.....]

I'd suggest just stopping when your wheel is that low. You really dont want to carry solar panels and a regualtor around for the off chance itll be purely sunny and you need 10% more battery to get home. If thats the case, perhaps just carrying a battery would be a better solution, or purchasing a next larger battery sized wheel. In your scenario, 10% more would easily by 5% too little. Do you also drive until your car is out of gas, just because you have a small gas can in the trunk? DO you carry a small gas can full in your trunk all the time? Sorry, I just cant follow the logic. I can understand how you want a 'reserve' battery or power source, but its just not economical atm.

Edited August 20, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Triexy]

I want just to know how can I use solarpanels to charge my wheel my problem is I dont find a thats all and sometimes I am sitting 10 hours on a the same place so why shouldnt charge the wheel at this time. My problem is simply I can not find a suitable connector from usb to the connector of the charger from the unicycle

[yoos]

Different batteries have different voltages. The charger must be able to work at that voltage. The panel you are considering can output current at 5V/12V/18V DC (direct current), because it is designed for phones and laptops. Apparently it cannot output current at 84V which is required for your KS18XL batteries. Thus, you would need a step-up (or "boost") converter (no clue how hard and expensive it is to get a proper one -- it should safely handle the 100W power) to 84V. It should then have a proper pin connector to fit the 18XL. Alternatively, you might want to utilize your stock charger (it outputs the correct 84V DC), but the charger is designed to take 220V AC (alternate current) input so again you would need a transformer which turns the 18V DC into 220V AC, and the stock charger would then turn it into 84V DC which the batteries take.

Anyway, this seems to complicated and ineffective, unless you are planning a multi-day travel into the wilderness, where there is no other power source available. If you are planning this for "emergencies", it really seems ineffective. Even if there were no power losses in all the transformers/converters and your emergencies always happened in an open field in perfectly sunny weather, you would need almost an hour to charge to 5% at 100Watt. 

[johrhoj]

Let's get practical about solar power and external batteries.

Like most of us, I would love to be able to ride all day and go everywhere, while not depending long breaks or even on the powergrid for charging my wheel. So what is attainable at the moment. 

First of all, my solution is and has always been to buy EUC with large batteries. The larger the battery, the greater the distance. And yes, more batteries means more expensive and heavier EUC. But also longer charge-times. There are several solutions to get the chargetime down. The most radical solutions involve changing the internal charging system. But manufacturers are allowing for better charging-times by having a second charge-port and allowing for higher Amperage. 

Secondly, the EUC is quite power-hungry. It is not like a laptop or phone or flashlight. A EUC needs several hundreds of Watt during operation, going up to over 1kW for most high end wheels at speed.

SOLAR ENERGY

You want to dabble with solarpower? I see three options for use of solar-power:
- while driving (reason being longer driving time and distance)
- while pausing (reason being longer driving distance and not depending on powergrid)
- at home (reason being climate-aware)

1 While driving

Solar panels are still improving, but it will be hard to get even an avarage of 15W from portable panels while driving. You will not be driving in the full sun constantly, you will not be able to keep the panel perfectly angled to the sun most of the time, and the surface area you can use for panels is limited. You could extend your range (heavily depending on wheel and driving-speed) from a few percent to maybe 15 percent. Besides the marginality of the gain, be aware of the following:
- you wheel must allow you to drive and charge at the same time (I honestly do not know if this is default for all wheels).
- you will carry a considerable weight. Not only do you need the panel, but also the transformation of the panel's power is needed. This might totally negate you gain.
- it is expensive

2 While pausing

Now there are more advantages. You could place your panel(s) correctly in the sun, you are less limited in panel surface area. I know of a product where you could get 100W+ from a portable solution. You would have to carry around 10Kg of extra weight though. If you have a 1kW battery, you would need to pause 10 hours for a full charge. Realistically you could extend your range for the day by 20-50%, again heavily depending on your wheel and your driving. Also depending on the weather and pausing time of course. 

3 At home.

I assume that your home is connected to the powergrid. Just use it, and look for solar-energy solutions for your home. 

EXTERNAL BATTERIES

There are several good external batteries on the market. You can charge them at home and bring them with you. I estimate that currently you can get 100Wh per Kg of extra weight or thereabouts. This means that if you are willing to carry 10 kg of extra weight, you can almost double your driving distance when your wheel has a 1000Wh battery. The extra weight will be a burden, therefor doubling the Wh will not exactly double your range. 

Big advantages of external batteries are:
- they will charge while your wheel is charging, thus not extending charging-time.
- depending on your wheel, you can choose to charge from the external battery while driving or while pausing.
- you can carry as many external battery as you like.

MY CONCLUSION

Solar power options are not worth it. Unless you are completely cut of from the powergrid, there is no practical gain for solar options over external batteries.

If you search the internet for products, you will find them. More products are becoming available all the time. 

[Chriull]

25 minutes ago, yoos said:

Apparently it cannot output current at 84V which is required for your KS18XL batteries. Thus, you would need a step-up (or "boost") converter (no clue how hard and expensive it is to get a proper one -- it should safely handle the 100W power) to 84V.

Such step up converters with output current limiting are "quite cheap" avalaible from china and used for external batteries, so this construct acts like an charger.

With an solar panel one has the problem of different, changing power availability. So not only output voltage has to be altered acvording to li.ion charging specifications but also the charging current depending of delivered solar power.

Afaik exactly for this mpp(?t?) solar charge regulators are mode one has just to find one for 84V. After a short try on Google it seems there are many?

 

[ArieKanarie]

2 hours ago, Chriull said:

one has just to find one for 84V

I think the MPPT-7210A goes to 90V, which would be sufficient.

[Chriull]

9 minutes ago, ArieKanarie said:

I think the MPPT-7210A goes to 90V, which would be sufficient.

One description states that it's configurable for 72V Li Ion systems - which is exactly the 84V li ion battery used in EUCs (nominal vs. maximum voltage specified)

If it works with the specified solar panel it could be a solution?

[Triexy]

Really thx for your anwers I just want to load my ewheel if iam take a brake of 4 hours or more and at home with a solarpanel so I need a Solar charge controller like
Radiancy Inc  s80

a Solarpanel like solartronics Solarmodul 200 Watt and a car battery is that correct?

So on the road to load 20% more isnt working correct? Sry for my question buti am a newbie in this field iam a newbie on this area

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Triexy

[Tawpie]

I haven't done the math but I don't think bringing along a solar panel is going to work for what you described. You'll need a full sized panel to get 100-200W in full sunlight, and that'll get you a slow charge rate (1-2A). A battery powered power station that you'll want to carry in your backpack is going to be pretty small, and you have to carry your normal charger too. If your power station doesn't have a mains output, upconverting a 12V output from a power station to 84V will require luck to find, or a custom design and build (you basically have to build a charger, but run it from 12VDC instead of mains).

It won't help if you like to ride in rural or wilderness areas, but in the US there's an app called plugshare that crowd sources the locations of power outlets and EV charging stations. There's probably something similar for Europe—I'd look into that (and possibly the adapter for an EV charging station).

Edited August 21, 2021 by Tawpie

[Chriull]

7 hours ago, Triexy said:

Really thx for your anwers I just want to load my ewheel if iam take a brake of 4 hours or more and at home with a solarpanel so I need a Solar charge controller like Inc  s80

a Solarpanel like solartronics Solarmodul 200 Watt and a car battery is that correct?

• Solar panel:
• Weight: 14.8 kg
• Size: 1580 mm x 810 mm x 35 mm
• Controller: .75kg
• Car battery: ~5kg

You are sure you want to take such pieces with you riding on the wheel? 

Why a car battery and this controller? Then you'd need an additional inverter to power the charger...

As written before there are mppt boost controllers which seem to directly charge 20s li.ion batteries.

 

[Paul A]

Can ride at a reasonable speed for around 5 to 6 hours continuously on a fully charged KS18XL.

As a newbie, you will probably find with some riding experience, that the range will be more than adequate.

 

"to get 5 or 10% just for emergency to get a little more power to get home"

Implies that you are wanting to carry that solar panel or generator with you on the EUC.

That doesn't sound really practical...

 

If the intention is to use a solar panel or generator to charge at a home base, it's probably going to be cheaper, easier, more reliable to just plug into the mains power supply.

If the cost of electricity in Germany is approximately $0.37 USD per kilowatt hour, then presumably the KS18XL battery of 1.554 kilowatt hour, would cost around $0.55 USD to fully charge.

The solar panel is: $199.99

The generator is: Euro 599.99

[Triexy]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Can ride at a reasonable speed for around 5 to 6 hours continuously on a fully charged KS18XL.

As a newbie, you will probably find with some riding experience, that the range will be more than adequate.

 

"to get 5 or 10% just for emergency to get a little more power to get home"

Implies that you are wanting to carry that solar panel or generator with you on the EUC.

That doesn't sound really practical...

 

If the intention is to use a solar panel or generator to charge at a home base, it's probably going to be cheaper, easier, more reliable to just plug into the mains power supply.

If the cost of electricity in Germany is approximately $0.37 USD per kilowatt hour, then presumably the KS18XL battery of 1.554 kilowatt hour, would cost around $0.55 USD to fully charge.

The solar panel is: $199.99

The generator is: Euro 599.99

Yeah thats true, I checked a 200 watt system with a Solar charge controller cost 229,99€ with a converter together 300€ without battery. Yes iam planing to travel arround in future and was searching for a powersource and dont want to load my euc, laptop and so on with my car thats why iam searching for a alternative.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Triexy

[Chriull]

An (almost) feasable solution could eventually be something like the "Offgridtec FSP-2 120W Ultra foldable Solarpanel"

Size folded: 560 x 440 x 20 mm
Size open: 560 x 1520 x 6 mm
Weight: 5,1 kg

And something like the above linked mppt boost controller, able to directly charge the ks18xl battery.

Of course the price for this solarpanel (~300€, including another controller) is high, but maybe something in this direction can be found without controller and more reasonable price?

With this in the best case and ignoring losses some 480Wh could be charged in 4hours. And carrying ~6kg in the rucksack is not great but feasable?

If one takes just 300Wh that would be ~20% charge.

Maybe a smaller and lighter 80 or 100W foldable could be enough?

[Triexy]

13 minutes ago, Chriull said:

An (almost) feasable solution could eventually be something like the "Offgridtec FSP-2 120W Ultra foldable Solarpanel"

Size folded: 560 x 440 x 20 mm
Size open: 560 x 1520 x 6 mm
Weight: 5,1 kg

And something like the above linked mppt boost controller, able to directly charge the ks18xl battery.

Of course the price for this solarpanel (~300€, including another controller) is high, but maybe something in this direction can be found without controller and more reasonable price?

With this in the best case and ignoring losses some 480Wh could be charged in 4hours. And carrying ~6kg in the rucksack is not great but feasable?

If one takes just 300Wh that would be ~20% charge.

Maybe a smaller and lighter 80 or 100W foldable could be enough?

Hmm i dont want to open the wheel always, i thought I can use the normal charger thats why I thought Solarpanel with converter and battery and if i need to recharge my wheel a voltage converter on the battery or is that wrong? I know I cant use always the voltage converter because it needs power.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Triexy

[supercurio]

On 8/20/2021 at 9:47 AM, Triexy said:

I dont need always fullpower its just to get 5 or 10% just for emergency to get a little more power to get home  

It's an interesting use case for sure, however experience and planning will likely get you further, by knowing how much distance is left on your journey and how much energy remains at which battery %.

Lowering speed does wonders in terms of extending range. If you monitor both your distance left and battery capacity, in most situations you'll be able to ride back home, although that might be at 10 km/h in the end.

Regarding sun availability, I don't know about you guys but it's not uncommon that with a 1500Wh+ battery, if I rode far and for a long time then when I'm at 5% battery it's already dark. Solars panels would not help then, and I would prefer walking instead of waiting for an extremely slow charge anyway.

[OldFartRides]

If I understand, you are talking about traveling in your car and bringing all this with you in the CAR ?

[Triexy]

Just now, OldFartRides said:

If I understand, you are talking about traveling in your car and bringing all this with you in the CAR ?

Yep I thought a 100 watt solarpanel can recharge if I take a brake but I see it isnt working later I want to travel with my car and want to recharge my wheel always with my car. To example if iam staying for few days I want just find a way to recharge my wheel without using my car.

[OldFartRides]

Wheel charger runs off of converter. Converter runs off car battery/ batteries. Solar panel helps with battery charging.

[yoos]

11 minutes ago, supercurio said:

I would prefer walking instead of waiting for an extremely slow charge anyway.

That is actually a great point. The typical consumption of an EUC at medium speeds (around 20km/h) is around 16Wh/km. If you charge your wheel at 100W this gives you a range of 100W / 16Wh /km = 6km per hour. That's just about walking speed! In other words, by the time you have charged enough to get to your destination, you could have walked there already! So it is not really a wise solution for emergencies.

[Chriull]

1 minute ago, OldFartRides said:

Wheel charger runs off of converter. Converter runs off car battery/ batteries. Solar panel helps with battery charging.

Exactly.

And the included controller with the foldable panel seems to be able to charge 12/24V car batteries?

Most presumably such foldable panels can be connected so during a break with the car one can use more panels, going out with the euc one just takes the smallest?

And the other mppt boost charge cobtroller can directly charge the wheel?

So every scenario covered?

[Chriull]

25 minutes ago, Triexy said:

Hmm i dont want to open the wheel always

Why should you open the wheel always?

One can add the right connector at such an mppt boost charge controller and use the charge plug of the wheel!