Tell me about the Nikola+ good & Bad

[mrelwood]

On 8/11/2021 at 2:23 AM, No1up said:

I like a little big, my s18 is a rather large wheel.

I think there is some similarity in the S18 and the Nikola riding stance. Both are wide at the top, which makes the top push against my leg while turning, enough to make tight turns difficult. But my knees are slightly bent inwards which could exaggerate the issue for me.

Either way, V11 and V12 are wonderfully shaped for my legs! I can easily tilt them far enough and turn in a diameter of just a few feet. They both felt very natural to me from the moment I got on the first time. And they still do. The MSX didn’t feel natural at any point during the 14000km I rode with it, for comfort or pedal response.

The thing I keep coming back to is the ride mode settings. All other manufacturers still use only three riding modes, which has always made me switch back and forth since none of them happens to behave the way I’d expect the wheel to. On Inmotions you simply find your favorite with a 100 step pedal hardness slider that you can adjust on the fly. I really really hope that other manufacturers would finally mimic Inmotion on this, there’s nothing like the feeling of getting the response tailored with precision! Even a 10 step slider would be a huge improvement over the current three.

 

On 8/11/2021 at 2:23 AM, No1up said:

I tried a 16x and it was very small.. at least in comparison.

It is. Somehow the 16X feels as if it had a smaller tire diameter than V12 or Nikola. Probably it’s just about the stability that is not at the same level.

 

On 8/11/2021 at 2:23 AM, No1up said:

I have the v12 on pre order. 

Congrats! Personally I think it’s the best, nicest and most comfortable non-suspension wheel ever made. Hadn’t I been severely bitten by the suspension bug, I would’ve ordered the V12 the day I tried it. 

[FlyingWigs]

I'm also bouncing between the V12 and the Nikola AR, the extra Wh on the AR is just such a big draw to me. I don't go on really long rides now, but I haven't had the ability to either as my V8's battery is dying 😭

[mike_bike_kite]

22 minutes ago, FlyingWigs said:

I'm also bouncing between the V12 and the Nikola AR, the extra Wh on the AR is just such a big draw to me. I don't go on really long rides now, but I haven't had the ability to either as my V8's battery is dying 😭

The V8 will give you a range of 15-20 miles depending on your weight, speed, hills etc. For a large part of that you'll have the speed throttled due to low batteries. The Nikola AR will give you about 70 miles, the standard Nikola and the V12 will give you around 50 miles. Personally I'd go with the V12 as it's a newer wheel. Obviously all will weigh a lot more than your old V8.

It might be worth reading up on how to charge the batteries on these things. Here's a good video and here's a post.

[FlyingWigs]

6 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

The V8 will give you a range of 15-20 miles depending on your weight, speed, hills etc. For a large part of that you'll have the speed throttled due to low batteries. The Nikola AR will give you about 70 miles, the standard Nikola and the V12 will give you around 50 miles. Personally I'd go with the V12 as it's a newer wheel. Obviously all will weigh a lot more than your old V8.

It might be worth reading up on how to charge the batteries on these things. Here's a good video and here's a post.

I've been dealing with lithium batteries for many years, unfortunately I think that the previous owner had left it dead for too long and it lost capacity. Also being manufactured back in 2017 isn't doing any favors 😑

A little searching says that the V12 is a 4P while I think (totally unsubstantiated maths) the Nikola AR is 6P so the AR should have much more amp reserves and be less strain on the cells. It would also mean that charging to 80% would be plenty of range... 

Though I do like the attention to quality Inmotion is striving for. 

Still on the fence. The AR is in stock and im close to being able to pull the trigger lol

[Scottie]

3 hours ago, FlyingWigs said:

The AR is in stock

Basically, that is what did it for me. I have been enjoying the Nik AR a lot lately. I do not need all that range for one ride, but I enjoy the freedom from having to charge often. There is enough battery for me to ride it twice a day for several days.

The V12 still sounds appealing. You may decide to sell your AR in the future and get the V12 when they are more available. Or depending on your situation ... have both ... a spare wheel for the "just in case".

Edited October 11, 2021 by Scottie
typo

[FlyingWigs]

20 minutes ago, Scottie said:

Basically, that is what did it for me. I have been enjoying the Nik AR a lot lately. I do not need all that range for one ride, but I enjoy the freedom from having to charge often. There is enough battery for me to ride it twice a day for several days.

The V12 still sounds appealing. You may decide to sell your AR in the future and get the V12 when they are more available. Or depending on your situation ... have both ... a spare wheel for the "just in case".

I've heard that the AR is better balanced than the older Nikolas, and less prone to braking wobble, is that your experience so far? 

[.....]

2 hours ago, FlyingWigs said:

I've heard that the AR is better balanced than the older Nikolas, and less prone to braking wobble, is that your experience so far? 

My buddy rides an AR+ nik. He doesnt seem to have any wobble issues above skill induced. Its a very capable wheel and almost keeps up with an idiot on a sherman. I also think it looks pretty tough and a very elegant design. I can't say that the AR upgrade was done in top notch fashion, but it seems to work. He also waterproofed it and it seemed to handle that just fine. I rode it like a jackass and it felt good. A little chunky but not too much. If it had any inherent problems with handling, I would have eaten sh*t in short order, as I dont tend to err on the side of caution. His have a set of ShanesPads on them, and they really helped wring a little more outta the wheel, without getting in the way. Ive a couple vids of riding the sherman with him on the Nik. They are close enough in spec that it makes a dandy pair. I dont think the Nik was limiting the rider in any way.

Edited October 11, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Scottie]

2 hours ago, FlyingWigs said:

I've heard that the AR is better balanced than the older Nikolas, and less prone to braking wobble, is that your experience so far? 

I am 235 lbs and haven't had any braking wobble in 400 miles of riding it, but I am not a high speed rider ... may 22 - 23 mph at most. Mostly I roll along around 17 mph cause I am one of the old farts. @ShanesPlanet is more qualified on the wheel than me ... so whatever he says!

[.....]

5 hours ago, Scottie said:

I am 235 lbs and haven't had any braking wobble in 400 miles of riding it, but I am not a high speed rider ... may 22 - 23 mph at most. Mostly I roll along around 17 mph cause I am one of the old farts. @ShanesPlanet is more qualified on the wheel than me ... so whatever he says!

I am definitely NOT more qualified than you in ANY form. With 400 miles on the wheel, I definitely think your opinion holds more weight(so does your frame it appears). I am merely citing what i noticed in a mile of riding. My buddy has been riding his as primary vehicle for a while. I am parotting his experiences for the most part. Im not a gotway fan so much, but the proof is in the pudding. For me, it was a lot closer in feel to the sherman than it is to my 18XL. For as wide a wheel as it is, its not uncomfortable. ALl in all, I think its a great option and it has its own useable flavor. I do have another buddy( @RetroThruster) I went for a ride with, who owns a nik. It was a 4hr day of great park riding. As for comfort, he stayed atop his Nik with nearly as much comfort as I did on my 18xl. That speaks volumes in itslelf. I also have a vid of that ride as it was in gorgeous Chattanooga, TN and was an amazing trip. In fact, I need head out there again, if he'll tolerate me..

Edited October 12, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[mike_bike_kite]

4 hours ago, FlyingWigs said:

I've heard that the AR is better balanced than the older Nikolas, and less prone to braking wobble, is that your experience so far? 

I believe the arrangement of the batteries in the early Nikolas wasn't perfectly balanced and that might of led to some speed wobbles. In the 21700 battery Nikolas the batteries are perfectly balanced on both sides and the weight is fairly low down which also helps with stability. On the AR they've filled the space at the top of the wheel with extra batteries so it's a little more top heavy than the standard 100V Nikola. All Nikolas are waterproof. The large foot plates make the wheel fairly comfortable and the wide tyre adds a little "suspension" though the wheel is quite wide but you get used to it fairly quickly.     

[FlyingWigs]

48 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I believe the arrangement of the batteries in the early Nikolas wasn't perfectly balanced and that might of led to some speed wobbles. In the 21700 battery Nikolas the batteries are perfectly balanced on both sides and the weight is fairly low down which also helps with stability. On the AR they've filled the space at the top of the wheel with extra batteries so it's a little more top heavy than the standard 100V Nikola. All Nikolas are waterproof. The large foot plates make the wheel fairly comfortable and the wide tyre adds a little "suspension" though the wheel is quite wide but you get used to it fairly quickly.     

Considering that I feel more comfortable when my legs are against the body of my narrow V8, I think I would like the width. Really wish I could test ride one 🤦🏻‍♂️

[EUC Sharkman]

Been loving my NikolAR a lot since I bought it just because it does most of everything that I want in a wheel while being quite affordable. I’m in that 240 pound riding weight area. Been able to ride comfortably in long 60 mile rides without compromising my usual average speed, take it on separate 20-30 mile rides without having to charge in between, go on speedy group rides of around 30 mph average (and kind of keep pace with the speedsters), and even some mild off roading. The wheel has surprising torque to get me up fairly steep inclines, and aside from unusually hot days, runs pretty cool and isn’t prone to overheating. It has a durable shell, some water resistance (I don’t trust any wheel to be waterproof unless you made it waterproof) and the lights look fantastic in night rides.

The price/battery/weight ratio is where I think the most appeal lies. $2500/2700 Wh battery/65 lbs. Affordable (any wheel that has a 1 Wh/$1 ratio or better gets on my good side), beefy battery, light enough to still be pretty agile. And it comes with a 2 year warranty!

Regarding wobbles, I did encounter them my first day in riding the wheel, but wobbles can happen on any wheel you’re simply not accustomed to riding. I’ve seen wobbles on the super balanced Sherman from those who weren’t used to riding that wheel. I believe it when people say it’s more the rider than the wheel. I don’t think any wheel is immune to wobbles, so it’s good to learn in and out the techniques to handle wobbles. NikolAR has been plenty stable for me, even at the higher speed range for a 16” diameter wheel, but that came with experience riding the wheel and the right tire pressure psi to my riding weight.

Honestly, I think the NikolAR checks a lot of boxes and is an awesome package. I personally probably don’t see any reasons to upgrade from this wheel unless I -really- want the top speed and top range and am actually willing to pay north of $3.5-$4k to get that in the Sherman, Monster Pro, or the other new wheels like the Commander or Abrams. Unlikely for me at this time.

Edited October 12, 2021 by TheSlyGiraffEV

[Scottie]

5 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

As for comfort, he stayed atop his Nik with nearly as much comfort as I did on my 18xl.

I have 2nd this.  The stance of the Nik AR and 18XL feel very similar with the pedals somewhat close together which puts the legs closer to the wheel body. And the body height is similar (meaning both a bit tall) so they both hit the legs at about the same height, with the Nik just a bit wider at the top. That makes for easier controlled mounting, but as @mrelwood would agree, less maneuverability than a 16X or V11. But different wheels ... different purposes. For me, it is fine and sometimes preferable to control the wheel by easily nudging the body while just cruising around. But for technical off-road or tight spaces it can be a bit cumbersome when you want more tilt-steering. The Nik AR's ride feel is like the baby that was produced from some strange love triangle of the Monster, 18XL, and 16X!  When I ride the AR, I feel all three of those wheels DNA mixed into it.

6 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

ALl in all, I think its a great option and it has its own useable flavor.

Nicely said!

 

2 hours ago, FlyingWigs said:

Really wish I could test ride one 🤦🏻‍♂️

I feel that! Buying a wheel is an act of faith unless you have a big riding crew to swap wheels with.

 

3 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

The large foot plates make the wheel fairly comfortable and the wide tyre adds a little "suspension" though the wheel is quite wide but you get used to it fairly quickly.

Agreed.

 

1 hour ago, TheSlyGiraffEV said:

The price/battery/weight ratio is where I think the most appeal lies. $2500/2700 Wh battery/65 lbs. Affordable (any wheel that has a 1 Wh/$1 ratio or better gets on my good side), beefy battery, light enough to still be pretty agile. And it comes with a 2 year warranty!

I did not do the math calculations. But intuitively was going for the same ... big battery ... good price!

1 hour ago, TheSlyGiraffEV said:

Honestly, I think the NikolAR checks a lot of boxes and is an awesome package.

[mrelwood]

 

14 hours ago, FlyingWigs said:

Nikola AR is 6P so the AR should have much more amp reserves and be less strain on the cells.

Before basing a purchase decision on this, you might want to consider whether your riding style would actually be pushing a 4P pack at its limits very often or not. The safe peak currents are mentioned in the battery datasheets.

14 hours ago, FlyingWigs said:

charging to 80% would be plenty of range...

You really need to check the links recommended to you in the post above yours.

14 hours ago, FlyingWigs said:

Though I do like the attention to quality Inmotion is striving for.

Who doesn’t! The trolley handle, lift handle, motor kill switch, app, headlight, beep options, shell surface, riding comfort, ride mode options, etc … There are big differences between the V12 and the Nikola all over the spectrum. Comparing the weight ratio or battery capacity alone doesn’t get you very close to what each wheel would feel in everyday use, in practice.

Btw, GotWays require about 10-15% more capacity to achieve comparable range due to having a hard stop already at 3.3V per cell.

14 hours ago, FlyingWigs said:

Still on the fence.

Whenever I’m having a hard time making a decision, I rate the various aspects by how much time I’d be using each of them. For example, a range difference between 50 and 70 miles is not worth much if I practically never ride for longer than 35-40. Annoyingly loud startup beeps OTOH can get surprisingly annoying if I tend to start up the wheel many times every day. Or if I’d hate fixing manufacturer oversights, I would stray away from a trolley handle that needs to be fixed in place by a DIY solution, and so on.

Nikola is still one of the best wheels GotWay has produced, and the AR version has a lot going for it. But to be fair, the differences all over between wheels introduced in 2019 and 2021 are hard to dismiss. If even EVX calls the V12 a “Nikola killer“, there really might be something to it.

[bracky72]

EVX is just trying to sell wheels so you can’t put much faith in his opinion. 

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, bracky72 said:

EVX is just trying to sell wheels so you can’t put much faith in his opinion. 

Touting the V12 as a “Nikola killer” is definitely not an EVX exclusive. I just mentioned him because he, like most NYC riders, have seemed very much having a GW (+ descendants) only attitude. Calling an Inmotion a GW killer must’ve been a bold move around those hoods, and trying to sell products or not, he wouldn’t say it without solid reasons to back it up.

[mike_bike_kite]

56 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Touting the V12 as a “Nikola killer”

I like watching EVX's reviews but I can't think of any EUC reviewers on YT that are unbiased. They will all rave about a particular set of advantages, largely ignore any disadvantages and then provide you with a buy link. The V12 has a more scratch proof case and inbuilt pads, it's lighting is better and the handle stays down in a crash but it's braking isn't so good, there's reports of the bearings failing and that screen on the top is a likely future failure point. It also looks ugly and is a more expensive wheel without really being a "better" wheel. If they were both the same price then I'd probably go for the V12 but it's certainly no "Nikola killer".

[EUC Sharkman]

I really liked the added features and updates the V12 has,...the adjustable pedals, the touchscreen, plus that modern look! However that 1750 Wh is a major buzzkill. It's how I felt when I saw low battery sizes on the Hero and S20.

 

If on a group ride, someone is riding a V12 (or say an RS19) alongside folks riding a Nik+AR (or EXN or Sherman or something), that V12 is gonna get some range anxiety Midway through the ride.

 

It's a major buzzkill, not to be understated.

 

In practice, it's kind of like this: If you're both riding say 30-35 mph average, the V12 will hit that 50% battery remaining sooner and have to start slowing down. The Nik+AR though can still keep going at that speed for a while. Worse yet is having to cut the ride short for fear of not having enough juice to make it back home. That's too much to ask of a rider in my opinion, and I've seen it far too often in recent group rides.

 

So, if you're thinking Nik+ vs. V12, I'd probably go V12. If you're thinking Nik+AR vs. V12, I'd go Nik+AR. That extra $200 for that 2700Wh battery is worth it despite being an older (but still decent) design wheel.

 

[mrelwood]

On 10/12/2021 at 4:55 PM, mike_bike_kite said:

can't think of any EUC reviewers on YT that are unbiased.

Some say that I’m the only one…  But I only have one. If I was sent various wheels for review and If be as honest as I am, the wheels would surely stop coming.

 

On 10/12/2021 at 4:55 PM, mike_bike_kite said:

but it's braking isn't so good

This is a user error. EUCs don’t brake, they try to stay balanced. Getting it to accelerate and brake is solely a user made side effect.

 If riders familiar only with GotWay slam the Pedal Sensitivity to 100%, of course accelerating requires more effort. Pull it down to 70-80% and the braking works marvelously. 

On 10/12/2021 at 4:55 PM, mike_bike_kite said:

there's reports of the bearings failing

I know of one single confirmed case, that started a bit of a storm, and now everybody is talking about how everybody is talking about V12 bearing failures. The magic of the modern digital community.

On 10/12/2021 at 4:55 PM, mike_bike_kite said:

without really being a "better" wheel.

You really should try riding it. It behaves so much better and more natural every single second you ride. 

 

On 10/12/2021 at 6:36 PM, TheSlyGiraffEV said:

However that 1750 Wh is a major buzzkill.

Sure, if the range is not enough, then it’s not enough. I don’t think the ride slows down at 50% though, except perhaps for those riding continuously at 40mph. The OP didn’t seem to be nearing that group of riders any time soon.

The V12 has a good range on its own, and unless the requirement actually is for even longer trips, choosing the AR Nik just in case would be a huge cost to pay.

In my books.

[EUC Sharkman]

15 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Sure, if the range is not enough, then it’s not enough.

I’d say this is the first question to consider if you’re deciding between the AR, or any other smaller battery wheel since the AR is the most affordable of the big battery wheels.