Popular Post xiiijojjo Posted August 10, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) I have a suspicion that we will never see a 120km/h+ wheel and i think the industry is a about to figure out where to settle when it comes to max performance. Once that happens (90-120km/h topspeed) i believe models overall will increase in price like we are seeing with Veteran... Only thing i can hope is that along with the price hike comes quality improvements as well. Because think about it from the industry's perspective. If most their lineups for the next 2-3 years have the same top performance (more or less), what would incentivize costumers to buy their newest product? Nothing beyond quality improvements and increased safety and maybe range. Once the manufacturers realize how few years/lineups they have left before hitting the performance wall they should start releasing more and more expensive wheels realizing it is the only way to offset the reduced number of returning customers. If you have issues imagining what i am talking about then think about yourself in 2026. The fastest wheel goes 120km/h and was released in 2024, and you have owned it since then. The 2026 Gotmotion lineup is announced as a response to the now arguably inferior Iron Song lineup of the same year. The lineup looks good but the top speed is the same as 2 years prior of 120km/h which you are already able of going. Modularity in battery packs has been a thing since 2022 so even if you need more range, you could just buy bigger battery packs replace the, smaller, old ones. There would be little reason to buy the 2026 model if there aren't any other notable improvement to either performance or safety or features in general. I already think these companies are seeing their costumers return at a slower and slower rate. Because back when i had the Msuper v3 in 2017 i knew i wanted more speed and battery and everything really so 1 year later got the tesla, 2 years later got the RS and what in 3 years i get something new? That's more or less what i'm thinking. Now honestly the only improvement i could ask for my RS is the ability to safely 18A charge it and i don't know what more to ask for other than 120km/h (for safety margin not suicide) But even with the current topspeed i don't see myself upgrading for years to come. Tl;DR Prepare for more expensive EUCs becoming the norm as diminishing returns in improving performance starts affecting how often customers want to buy. Having them buying less frequently "forces" the hand of the companies to increase prices. Edited August 10, 2021 by xiiijojjo 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gon2fast Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) I guess I am first in line for this one, good thing my wife bought me a new helmet! Seriously though, some see this stance as silly or foolish. I can respect that as most of my antics are foolish and silly. My thought process here is very simple. I have a Sherman and it made me take a different stance on what a wheel should offer. Performance, range and the simplest, but most useful option with the roll cage (IMHO). I had a Monster V2... the red one. Some guy in SF ended up with it after I sold it to a new rider (who promptly broke it after taking possession). I really liked that wheel, but it felt too hollow if you know what I mean. The cover was very thin, no off the line torque and it did the GW bounce (have a scar to prove it). All of that aside, it was a really fun wheel to ride. It was like driving a big ole Cadillac. I am very interested in LK/Veteran's take on a 22" Monster since they nailed it with the "Mini-Monster/Sherman". Edited August 11, 2021 by gon2fast 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post EMA Posted August 11, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 11, 2021 i'm still laugh while reading offroad and 22 inch at the same time, seems like they have never do offroad or never ridden a 22 inch i've ridden the 22' and 24inch monster and i like both, but i think we still pay too much the benefit of a huge diameter in terms of weight, torque and manuvrability. 18' size (14' rim) is very well know as the best all-round, i dream a real 20-21' tire (16' rim ) moved by something like a c38 motor, but it's just my opinion btw i'm curious of what they will bring to us 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conecones Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 20 hours ago, xiiijojjo said: I have a suspicion that we will never see a 120km/h+ wheel and i think the industry is a about to figure out where to settle when it comes to max performance. Once that happens (90-120km/h topspeed) i believe models overall will increase in price like we are seeing with Veteran... Only thing i can hope is that along with the price hike comes quality improvements as well. Because think about it from the industry's perspective. If most their lineups for the next 2-3 years have the same top performance (more or less), what would incentivize costumers to buy their newest product? Nothing beyond quality improvements and increased safety and maybe range. Once the manufacturers realize how few years/lineups they have left before hitting the performance wall they should start releasing more and more expensive wheels realizing it is the only way to offset the reduced number of returning customers. If you have issues imagining what i am talking about then think about yourself in 2026. The fastest wheel goes 120km/h and was released in 2024, and you have owned it since then. The 2026 Gotmotion lineup is announced as a response to the now arguably inferior Iron Song lineup of the same year. The lineup looks good but the top speed is the same as 2 years prior of 120km/h which you are already able of going. Modularity in battery packs has been a thing since 2022 so even if you need more range, you could just buy bigger battery packs replace the, smaller, old ones. There would be little reason to buy the 2026 model if there aren't any other notable improvement to either performance or safety or features in general. I already think these companies are seeing their costumers return at a slower and slower rate. Because back when i had the Msuper v3 in 2017 i knew i wanted more speed and battery and everything really so 1 year later got the tesla, 2 years later got the RS and what in 3 years i get something new? That's more or less what i'm thinking. Now honestly the only improvement i could ask for my RS is the ability to safely 18A charge it and i don't know what more to ask for other than 120km/h (for safety margin not suicide) But even with the current topspeed i don't see myself upgrading for years to come. Tl;DR Prepare for more expensive EUCs becoming the norm as diminishing returns in improving performance starts affecting how often customers want to buy. Having them buying less frequently "forces" the hand of the companies to increase prices. If EUC's become more mainstream, there should not be any issues selling product (even without real performance gains). There are so many other industries to learn from. For example look at the high end mountain bike/road bike industry - they sell huge quantities every year and all they do is change the colour , it's mostly about marketing and feeding the customer's never-ending thirst for wanting "the newest thing". Actual innovation comes every 4-5 years though, just to keep everyone interested, and its more quality of life improvements that general customers want rather than small performance gains that only the pro's will notice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MexicanBatman Posted August 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 12, 2021 18 hours ago, EMA said: i'm still laugh while reading offroad and 22 inch at the same time, seems like they have never do offroad or never ridden a 22 inch i've ridden the 22' and 24inch monster and i like both, but i think we still pay too much the benefit of a huge diameter in terms of weight, torque and manuvrability. 18' size (14' rim) is very well know as the best all-round, i dream a real 20-21' tire (16' rim ) moved by something like a c38 motor, but it's just my opinion btw i'm curious of what they will bring to us I’m really looking forward to it i had a 100v V3 monster i have a new wide rim sherman and the Sherman isn’t even close to the monster the monster could actually climb very steep terrain, the Sherman just overleans id go as far to say that I haven’t had a wheel on fire roads that’s keep up with the monster not talking gravel tracks as I’ve had the Sherman doing 70km/h on gravel grass and dirt im talking 4x4 tracks MSX V11 S18 all couldn’t match the speed I could handle on the monster the S18 and V11 would easily exceed it on proper rough stuff anyway if this new wheel is a hybrid 100v monster X Sherman just take my money already 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Eekenulv Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 love your thinking Trevor! I am a Monster guy since 2016 but switched to Sherman this summer ...but still think the 22" is perfect when we get the 4000W motor there is a reason why MTB do not sell with 16" wheels ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted August 14, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2021 11 minutes ago, Stefan Eekenulv said: there is a reason why MTB do not sell with 16" wheels Absolutely! It’s because they do not accelerate and brake by leaning… 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanBatman Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 1 hour ago, mrelwood said: Absolutely! It’s because they do not accelerate and brake by leaning… If the Sherman could climb half as good as the V3 it’d be ok but it doesn’t I have a clip of the V3 climbing a super steep concrete slope in a drain my Sherman can’t do it also the brakes where better and I could launch if further off drops and hop it way higher, but thats cos the Sherman is much heavier 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gon2fast Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) I wonder if the stand/connector is the modular component? Seems like the same connector is on the front as well. Edited August 17, 2021 by gon2fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Eekenulv Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/14/2021 at 2:13 PM, mrelwood said: Absolutely! It’s because they do not accelerate and brake by leaning… nahh ...no need to lean the body when using frontwedge on the pedals ...you control the machine with the toes and keep bodypostion just like a mogul skier! 1. https://eucmods.blogspot.com/2016/07/msuper-mod7the-wedge.html 2. https://eucmods.blogspot.com/2020/04/off-road-pedals-with-spikes-side-wedge.html 3. https://eucmods.blogspot.com/2021/05/updated-sherman-pedals.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Eekenulv Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/14/2021 at 2:13 PM, mrelwood said: Absolutely! It’s because they do not accelerate and brake by leaning… also braking can be enhanced using a "braking pin" >> https://eucmods.blogspot.com/2021/06/sherman-braking-pin.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Paul Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Looks like eWheels opened up preorders for the Abrams, expected to be in sooner than I would have guessed: late October/November https://www.ewheels.com/product/veteran-abrams-100-deposit/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forwardnbak Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) just saw this. I got excited but really just discussing what is already known. Edited August 21, 2021 by Forwardnbak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Denny Paul Posted August 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2021 10 hours ago, Forwardnbak said: just saw this. I got excited but really just discussing what is already known. yeah, chooch's content has really had some clickbaity titles for a while. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forwardnbak Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Denny Paul said: yeah, chooch's content has really had some clickbaity titles for a while. I fell for this one, keen to see some leaks and thought the tubers would get some early tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gon2fast Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 eWheels preorder page is reporting 50MPH top speed which is consistent with what I heard about the Abrams having more torque than the Sherman, but the same top speed. Interesting since additional torque (low end) in wheels usually equals lower top speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 3 hours ago, gon2fast said: eWheels preorder page is reporting 50MPH top speed which is consistent with what I heard about the Abrams having more torque than the Sherman, but the same top speed. Interesting since additional torque (low end) in wheels usually equals lower top speed. this is basically a lie, a 22 inch will never compete with a 19' in the low end, it's just a real world fact 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, EMA said: this is basically a lie, a 22 inch will never compete with a 19' in the low end, it's just a real world fact If you’re talking about accelerating, then sure, a 22” wheel requires more lean to tap into the torque reserve. But while smaller wheels get “free” “torque” from the smaller tire diameter, they also require more “torque” to compensate for the rider’s lean. Which of these two aspects wins or if they are identical, I don’t know. What I do know though is that riders do not tend to overlean 22+ inch wheels at lower speeds. Edit: I shouldn’t have used the word “torque“ above, as “thrust” is a more correct word. Thanks @Eucner! Edited August 23, 2021 by mrelwood 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucner Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 55 minutes ago, EMA said: this is basically a lie, a 22 inch will never compete with a 19' in the low end, it's just a real world fact Torque and thrust are different things. They are way too often mixed here. If 19 and 22 inch wheels have same torque, will smaller wheel have more thrust. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, mrelwood said: If you’re talking about accelerating, then sure, a 22” wheel requires more lean to tap into the torque reserve. But while smaller wheels get “free” “torque” from the smaller tire diameter, they also require more “torque” to compensate for the rider’s lean. Which of these two aspects wins or if they are identical, I don’t know. What I do know though is that riders do not tend to overlean 22+ inch wheels at lower speeds. Edit: I shouldn’t have used the word “torque“ above, as “thrust” is a more correct word. Thanks @Eucner! 13 minutes ago, Eucner said: Torque and thrust are different things. They are way too often mixed here. If 19 and 22 inch wheels have same torque, will smaller wheel have more thrust. thanks both for extended explaination 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kim Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 7 hours ago, gon2fast said: eWheels preorder page is reporting 50MPH top speed which is consistent with what I heard about the Abrams having more torque than the Sherman, but the same top speed. Interesting since additional torque (low end) in wheels usually equals lower top speed. I wouldn’t take anything at face value. The Sherman has proven time and time again it could hit 50 mph. I’d look at the board configuration, motor and battery config before estimating its real world top speed. also the speed-corrected no load speed should clue you in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ben Kim Posted August 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2021 I for one am not interested in any of these new big battery wheels, including the Abrams. I was one of the first to jump on the Sherman hype train being a very reasonably priced big battery wheel with a big no load speed, with the Abrams, they want MORE money for less battery. It’s a hard pass for me unless they surprise us all and drop a higher voltage wheel on us. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg X Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Abrams looks very, very promissing, it may be best wheel of 2021. Reasonably priced 22" wheel with big battery = nice upgrade for Monster lovers. As a Monster v3 user I DON'T need super high power, 2500-2800w is absolutelly enough. It is cruiser wheel, not racer. Range is much more needed here, than sporty torque. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 Saw that the Abrams got some new pictures on Ewheels 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Denny Paul Posted August 26, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 26, 2021 oh my god does it say "surging passion" on the side? It'll be so embarrassing having my surging passion just out on display when I'm out in public. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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