Is there an EUC that can climb a 50°+ hill gradient?

[Lateralus]

If yes - which model?

[AtlasP]

The problem at that kind of slope is just as much or more traction as it is motor power. I feel like some of today's wheels have the power to do it with a light enough rider, but keeping/losing traction is the problem.

Edited July 19, 2021 by AtlasP

[Eucner]

Tan 50° = 1,19. You would need a gecko level friction, not yet available for humans.

[Lateralus]

Interesting. What are the steepest successful attempts you've seen so far? What current model would you bet on?

[DjPanJan]

Begode RS torque ,only traction is the limit. Real tested by Wrongway chanel. 

Big potencial have Begode EX but weight is big on this machine.

Gotway MSP torque is strong climber too and only 24,5Kg but "Adam" says RS torque feel stronger.

 

[Waulnut]

There's this by @ray rokni

Maybe not as steep as Wrongway's but still quite steep. 

 

 

[Lateralus]

Ok guys, I was anticipating that you wouldn't believe it, and I wouldn't have either If I hadn't witnessed it, so let's see if my video will change your mind

19 hours ago, DjPanJan said:

Begode RS torque ,only traction is the limit. Real tested by Wrongway chanel. 

Big potencial have Begode EX but weight is big on this machine.

Gotway MSP torque is strong climber too and only 24,5Kg but "Adam" says RS torque feel stronger.

Yeah I think MSP & RS Torque are definitely at the top in this regard!

51 minutes ago, Waulnut said:

There's this by @ray rokni

Maybe not as steep as Wrongway's but still quite steep.

Very cool video because of how long the incline is and the ultrawide PoV, though I agree in reality it's probably less than 45

Edited July 20, 2021 by Lateralus

[Tryptych]

2 hours ago, Lateralus said:

Ok guys, I was anticipating that you wouldn't believe it, and I wouldn't have either If I hadn't witnessed it, so let's see if my video will change your mind

Yeah I think MSP & RS Torque are definitely at the top in this regard!

Very cool video because of how long the incline is and the ultrawide PoV, though I agree in reality it's probably less than 45

Any wheel can climb a 80° hill if it's short enough and the wheel is going fast enough. I wouldn't call this a successful test, it's too short.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lateralus]

While I could agree with the first half if you were talking about a 0.5m bump, I would hardly describe ~2.5meters a "short" hill for such an incline. Speed doesn't solve anything after a point as you would simply slam into a wall and possibly break a rim or a limb.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Lateralus

[Eucner]

It was done with moderate speed and helping with hands at the end. Try that with zero speed start and the result won't be same.

[Lateralus]

Of course it won't but I feel we're making up conditions now and missing the point - it was done, and it was done without a smooth gradient on-ramp, without any ropes to pull on or any other trickery.  I would challenge anyone who thinks speed makes things easy to try it first, even if you can't find a hill quite as steep as this one.

[Eucner]

Sure it was very skillful riding. A fluent coordination of riding, jumping, climbing and dragging with hands.

[Eucner]

If only someone would make drag race tires for the EUC's. They can achieve CoF over 4. That would be enough for over 76° incline.

[AtlasP]

12 hours ago, Eucner said:

It was done with moderate speed and helping with hands at the end. Try that with zero speed start and the result won't be same.

I agree with you. On top of all this, it's pretty clear that he just barely made it to the end (quite literally), to the extreme if that hill was merely another 6" longer he probably wouldn't have.

Edited July 21, 2021 by AtlasP

[Lateralus]

Classic cognitive dissonance

It seems we've turned this into a philosophical issue.

I asked the question with this phrasing
"Is there an EUC that can climb a 50°+ hill gradient?" to which I would argue, given the evidence, the answer is a simple "yes."

Now if your reading of this question is "can a EUC climb a 5-meter 50°+ hill gradient, starting from a standstill, the answer would be a simple "no"

No need for an argument there

Edit: Let's not forget this is in the spirit of exploring the limits, not some bet nor a Guinness world record entry. If it were the latter - surely the rules would be negotiated in advance. I don't mind the discussion, it's just looks like you're discrediting the feat like anyone could grab an MSP and climb this hill that way.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Lateralus

[Eucner]

3 hours ago, Lateralus said:

Classic cognitive dissonance

It seems we've turned this into a philosophical issue.

I asked the question with this phrasing
"Is there an EUC that can climb a 50°+ hill gradient?" to which I would argue, given the evidence, the answer is a simple "yes."

Now if your reading of this question is "can a EUC climb a 5-meter 50°+ hill gradient, starting from a standstill, the answer would be a simple "no"

No need for an argument there

Edit: Let's not forget this is in the spirit of exploring the limits, not some bet nor a Guinness world record entry. If it were the latter - surely the rules would be negotiated in advance. I don't mind the discussion, it's just looks like you're discrediting the feat like anyone could grab an MSP and climb this hill that way.

As a philosophical question the answer is still no. At the first, there no EUC with autodrive, and at the second, 2.5 m incline doesn't make a hill. 

It is difficult for me to understand your intentions. You clearly knew the video before you started asking questions. Why didn't you just post it?

[mrelwood]

 

Quote

I asked the question with this phrasing
"Is there an EUC that can climb a 50°+ hill gradient?" to which I would argue, given the evidence, the answer is a simple "yes."

The V11 can climb up a 90 degree gradient, even with a 100kg rider!

 

Quote

Edit: Let's not forget this is in the spirit of exploring the limits

The point of measuring the angle of the hill in the first place is to compare the performance of different wheels. There’s no point in doing that if the situation is allowed to be such that it can’t be recreated by others.

For the wheel to be able to climb a certain gradient, it doesn’t make sense to add conditions such as “if the incline is short enough” or “if the rider has the skill to bounce just right”. That goes against the purpose of doing the test in the first place.

 Just like a top speed of EUCs. Any EUC can be accelerated to 190km/h if the factors of common sense are removed. (Terminal velocity.)

 

Quote

it's just looks like you're discrediting the feat like anyone could grab an MSP and climb this hill that way.

It’s not the case at all. As was said, the performance was an extremely skilled one. Unlike me riding up a 10cm tall 90 degree curb. But it simply didn’t do what you asked for in the topic title. It wasn’t the EUC that did the climbing, it wasn’t a hill, and the process isn’t repeatable.

Edited July 22, 2021 by mrelwood

[Lateralus]

See the whole issue comes from our differing views on acceptable factors. The curb comparison is a straw-man argument.
My goal for this video was never to be a scientific proof that Gotway should change the MSP specs for climbing angle to 53 degrees.

What I wanted to show, is that you can squeeze out more performance from it than anyone imagined and indeed climb 53 degrees under it's own power for a meaningful duration of time, not indefinitely. To do this the rider had to do a little jump to avoid smashing into what is basically a wall. If he did it your way it wouldn't have been worthy of a video because the title would be a statement not a question, and the video would be a boring collage of a slow-moving MSP crashing into a wall.

[Eucner]

11 minutes ago, Lateralus said:

See the whole issue comes from our differing views on acceptable factors. The curb comparison is a straw-man argument.
My goal for this video was never to be a scientific proof that Gotway should change the MSP specs for climbing angle to 53 degrees.

What I wanted to show, is that you can squeeze out more performance from it than anyone imagined and indeed climb 53 degrees under it's own power for a meaningful duration of time, not indefinitely. To do this the rider had to do a little jump to avoid smashing into what is basically a wall. If he did it your way it wouldn't have been worthy of a video because the title would be a statement not a question, and the video would be a boring collage of a slow-moving MSP crashing into a wall.

Kinetic energy can be converted to potential energy. With the incline length of 2.5 m and angle of 53° makes the climbing height 2.0 m. The needed velocity to climb it is v = (2gh)^0,5 = (2 x 9,81 x 2,0)^0,5 = 6,3 m/s (22.6 km/h). In theory pretty much any modern wheel could do it without using any power while climbing. In practice the change of direction would be very harsh for the driver. The video is only a prove of skillful driving.

[Lateralus]

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is."

In practice if you accelerate to 22.6+km/h into a 53° incline without jumping, you will slam the wheel and possibly your face into it quite like slamming into a vertical wall. If you don't believe me find a similar incline and try it. Videos and photos don't do justice to the steepness we're talking about. If you see it in person, you will immediately realize this intuitively. 

If you do decide to jump like the rider on the video, with "pretty much any modern wheel" you will almost certainly get a cut-off the moment of impact and once again slam into a wall. This cut off may or may not be accompanied by a burned motherboard. The readings on EUCworld, however inaccurate, were north of 200 A because of the impact following the jump. I sincerely doubt a random wheel other than the MSP HT or RS HT would survive such abuse and keep rolling upwards. There is no smooth transfer of momentum with this abrupt change in incline - you lose the majority of energy, whether you jump or not.

[jtm94]

It's wild he made it up that hill. He definitely had cutout a few times in the video so traction wasn't the biggest issue in that particular instance, but a wheel with that torque spec would start to become woefully slow relative to modern wheels for an extremely niche use case. Would be fun on dirt bike hill climbs through.

[mike_bike_kite]

I can't see the point of ever wanting to climb that sort of gradient. You need to add "Don't care" to the list of options  

Saying that, Wrong Way on YT seems to base all his videos on this. I'm still waiting for a youtuber that specialises in carrying each wheel up a few flights of stairs. They could then test the ruggedness of the wheel by just dropping it back down the stairs 

[Eucner]

1 hour ago, Lateralus said:

In practice if you accelerate to 22.6+km/h into a 53° incline without jumping, you will slam the wheel and possibly your face into it quite like slamming into a vertical wall.

Only if the change of direction is sudden.

[.....]

30 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I can't see the point of ever wanting to climb that sort of gradient. You need to add "Don't care" to the list of options  

Saying that, Wrong Way on YT seems to base all his videos on this. I'm still waiting for a youtuber that specialises in carrying each wheel up a few flights of stairs. They could then test the ruggedness of the wheel by just dropping it back down the stairs 

I'd say a wheel probably could climb more than 50. How heavy is the rider, how far? Can it be modded? What surface and tires? I'd bet under the right condtitions, 80-90 degrees is possible. Someone should sanction a wheel climb event like they do on dirt hills for motobikes.

Edited July 22, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[OldFartRides]

No pedestrians, bystanders, or dogs were harmed or felt threatened in the making of this vid.

Old Fart approves.