helmet Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 I was watching a WW ( wrong. way ) video. And I observed said professional forcing a cut out. Forcing a cut out is a great idea to find the limit of my wheel. Your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted July 14, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 14, 2021 To me forcing an overlean to learn the limits sounds like running fast enough to fall on your face just to know how fast you can run. KS and IM wheels have all kinds of protections you can’t remove just so that the rider wouldn’t be able to overlean the wheel. On GW/BG and Sherman you can remove the protections, which to me is one of the stupidest ideas on a self balancing vehicle in the first place. Riding long enough with any wheel and especially watching the data afterwards on amperage and wattage does let you learn well enough whereabouts the limits of your wheel are. There’s really no point in burning one’s fingers just to learn how close to a hot stove you can put them. Life in general has countless examples of the same thing, where we learn the limits by reason and other means instead of going too far. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Aztek Posted July 22, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) I inadvertently overleaned my ks 16xs in the beginning by approaching a small curb very slowly and leaning hard to get over it. The result is, I still can't flex my left index finger fully for over 2 months now. So, my thoughts... NO, definitely one should not do this. Overlean fall is so quick and fierce, it is scary, really. Edited July 22, 2021 by Aztek 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Sam Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 The limits are also squishy that depend on several variables, all of which you don't want to count on being the same each time. Battery level, temperature, rider weight including packed gear that day, surface gradient level, surface bumps or lack there of are just a few. Not to mention, there are several conditions that some people may be lumping into being called a cutout. I don't think it is a good idea, nor really repeatable science in real world conditions. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 You can test the cutout without actually falling to get an idea of remaining power (on some wheels at least, can't speak for those I haven't tried or seen examples of). If I take it close to the top speed I can flick the wheel forward so it gets overpowered and then quickly recover without falling. It gives me an idea of how much power/ acceleration I have left and now I know how the motor feels right before cutout. I've also heard of riders doing this to extract the maximum power/acceleration possible. *I'm not advocating trying this, you do so at your own risk. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztek Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 6 hours ago, Menace said: I can flick the wheel forward so it gets overpowered and then quickly recover On ks at least, if you do this, you'll have to recover from it and balance on a wheel without gyroscope for some two seconds, while going at max speed. I just can't imagine how this is feasible and if it is, it is ridiculously dangerous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, Aztek said: On ks at least, if you do this, you'll have to recover from it and balance on a wheel without gyroscope for some two seconds, while going at max speed. I just can't imagine how this is feasible and if it is, it is ridiculously dangerous. Ok, good to know! On Gotways (assuming they all act like the RS) it will recover immediately. It offers a little bit of resistance while it's dying (so it doesn't do a hard shut off), and it will recover as soon as you pull back (as long as you don't let it dip too far, in which case the motor will disengage like it does when tilted to the side). I don't know if this holds true for overspeed cutouts (haven't tried it and don't plan on it either) but it does for overpower cutouts. I think the best way to describe it would be flicking your ankles and then immediately returning the wheel back to level. You don't actually lean forward (because then you wouldn't be able to recover), but rather stay above the wheel. Yeah it is quite scary and dangerous so I definitely wouldn't recommend it, but I did this so I would know how it felt just before and during the cutout, as well as how to recover so I would be prepared should it ever happen unexpectedly. So definitely not something I do on a regular basis, and when I do I am on a flat empty road with full gear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 All wheels, KS included, only disengage the motor of the wheel tilts as far as 40-45 degrees forward/backward. A quick overpowering flick is not intended to go that far, although when the steep power limits of the 16X were found out, a few riders accidentally flicked too far. So down they went. Some wheels can also be flicked at standstill while holding onto something with your hands. This does risk toasting the mainboard mosfets though. But it’s still a better choice in case someone wants to experiment with only a monetary risk, without bodily harm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 I had an incident some time back with my KS16X. I were bypassing some pedestrian that took up all space on a combined cycle lane and walkway. Despite me using a bell they didn't move aside. I accelerated hard once passed they. Now it was on an uphill part and then I missed tre root undergrowth bumps from trees making the wheel to go airborne. Since I were on a forward lean the wheel hit high speed spin out almost but when it touch the asphalt it took a lot of power to maintain balance then I hit the 2nd root line. All of this was with a meter or yard so it happen fast at 30kmh.now the wheel beeps like crazy and now I feel it is on brink of cutting out. Yet it recovered how I do not know. Because it had started to dip forward a bit and no resistance on the pedals. And bang 3rd root line. However I had now seen it so I manage to mitigate the bump enough with my legs so that really didn't cause any huge problem. But I were so close a crash I could be and on a forward lean uphill I would have hit ground hard. I have tested this on a few times with my V11 but the suspension really makes a huge difference. So it never really becomes any problem and there is now major power spike it has to cope with either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiiijojjo Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 If y'all wanna play with cutting out stick with the mten in my opinion. I've cut out on the older msuper v3 and it did not reactivate immediately but after 2 seconds or so of balancing without help from the gyro. First time i didn't manage to balance for the 2 seconds... the tesla v1 reactivated within the second. I don't even want to think about cutting out on an RS with these speeds, and i don't even ride past the beeps anymore. I've been hurt far too much from slower speed crashes to want to figure out how it feels to slide over asphalt at 80km/h. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 On 7/31/2021 at 5:51 AM, Unventor said: I feel it is on brink of cutting out. Yet it recovered how I do not know. Because it had started to dip forward a bit and no resistance on the pedals. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You can get the same thing by flicking the pedals while riding. It honestly feels kind of cool and I like to know the limitations of my wheel and I honestly don't think it's that risky IF you know what you're doing (ie. right conditions, prepared, you know what to expect, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlW Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Would it be possible to have testing equipment in a lab situation to test out the upper end of wheels without risking humans? Some kind of treadmill contraption and a way to mount and control the wheel without a rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiMark Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 To avoid risk to humans I leave it to youtubers to test the limits . . . I deliberately bought a wheel with more power and speed available than what I believe I'll use, just so there was a good margin beyond what I was using. I have the RS19 HS and I really can't see a need to hit the limit of its speed, even fully geared up I'm just not brave enough to go that fast while balanced on one wheel. There are plenty of wheels with less power & speed, but I was worried that I might end up at those limits, I'd recommend anyone getting into EUCs go for a wheel with better performance available than whatever they will be using. I also set the tilt-back speed for something I'm comfortable with, currently it is set for around 2/3 of what the wheel is capable of, leaving a pretty good margin for safety. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..... Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, CarlW said: Would it be possible to have testing equipment in a lab situation to test out the upper end of wheels without risking humans? Some kind of treadmill contraption and a way to mount and control the wheel without a rider. there was someone around here working on such a device. I think it could be done quite easily, and it could be made to control lean and downforce. But, it wouldnt be free, the equipment wouldnt be cheap, and testing would take time and availability of wheels. I'd be up for giving it a shot. Anyone care to send me one of each wheel and about $5k usd, I'll get right on that! Depending on how much data you want collected and how tightly calibrated, it could cost a bit more. Seriously tho, one would assume at least ONE euc manufacture would have such a device and use it on all wheels as part of QC and burn in. Nope, it would cost time and $$. It wont happen until it HAS to. It aint like one couldnt just reverse engineer a portable dyno and add a computer controlled fixture to adjust wheel angle and pressure... I dont do forced cutouts, I value my mosfets and circuits too much. That, and my face. I'll push other limits to find the break point, but I'm not keen on that one in particular. I have had it happen on the mten in dirt and hills, being a jackass. I didnt like that much, as the poor mten wasnt free. SOmeday I'll find the cutout 'limit' at speed. But just as I dont keep hitting taller curbs at 40mph to find when one is too tall on my supermoto, you wont find me forcing cutouts on wheels. I am farily certain 'wrong way' doesnt concern himself too much about wheel replacement cost or the price of proper tools. He's got the euc disease so badly, he should be isolated and tested... Edited August 5, 2021 by ShanesPlanet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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