Incredibly bad look for this community.

[Tasku]

In the grand scale of NYC, the city of rats, this was nothing. Nobody even got hurt. And they have their own "big apple world" they live in, different rules, right? They race with the metal box automobiles everyday. This day they also raced each other, not_a_big_deal. 

Car drivers in NYC pretty much get away with hitting bicycles and such. Just NYC living up to that chaotic concrete jungle. Sarcasm might not  get across in anyway but..

"Just all fun and games."

If that race continues as it is, eventually accident will happen and someone might have to live with it, however long his/hers lifetime is. Will the hosts of the race stepup to support these medical costs too?

Video sure got attention, gotta say that much!
Would be great to see another race video!
In a race track or closed street.

[rinzler]

14 hours ago, dieterGRAMS said:

Haha well "Game theory is a theoretical framework for conceiving social situations among competing players" but yes, we like to dress things up around here. 

We've been working on this event for over a year actually. I had a TON of concerns with safety of our riders and pedestrians. The stops were chosen so that top speed was less of a factor compared a race like our yearly Broadway Bomb (youtube those too). We wanted this to be a Navigators Rally vs a speed contest. If people weren't so outraged, they'd notice nearly all racers arrived at the same time. Why? Because some of the "slower" guys know the city waaay better than the fastest guys. I'll say it was successful in that way. 

In the future, we will add more "speed bumps" to *TRY* and mellow things further to satisfy the Soy Milk fed masses of this scene I guess. 

Also, tons of people are working on horn solutions and if we do another event like this, we've toyed with the idea of producing ultra-loud whistles for the participants. 

Keep the ideas coming!

Wouldn't it just be easier to have some basic rules of engagement. I.e. follow the rules of the road (not flying the wrong way day a one way street), yield to all traffic stops and always giving pedestrians priority. 

Then it would be a better measure of riding skills and ability to problem solve on the spot. So still providing the drama but without the risk of injury to (or scaring the sh!t out of) ordinary people who are just going about their daily business.

Edited June 12, 2021 by rinzler
Typo

[bracky72]

If one of those dicks rode like that around me I’d hit them and knock them on their asses. See how that feels. Lol

[Camenbert]

18 minutes ago, bracky72 said:

If one of those dicks rode like that around me I’d hit them and knock them on their asses. See how that feels. Lol

Yeah for sure the right way to promote our passion ...

Words and arguments, no?

[GothamMike]

16 hours ago, Rawnei said:

And they aren't even jaywalking, it was green for pedestrians red for traffic.

These kewl kids think they are superior to elderly people crossing the street. They won't stop until someone is killed and we are all banned. So when you see someone barrelling through red lights, tell him he is an a-hole.

[winterwheel]

9 hours ago, OldFartRides said:

Looks like the line is drawn ‘tween the old farts and the young-n-dumb.

I'm going hold on to my inner young-n-dumb as long as possible.

Edited June 12, 2021 by winterwheel

[GoGeorgeGo]

1 hour ago, rinzler said:

Wouldn't it just be easier to have some basic rules of engagement. I.e. follow the rules of the road (not flying the wrong way day a one way street), yield to all traffic stops and always giving pedestrians priority. 

Then it would be a better measure of riding skills and ability to problem solve on the spot. So still providing the drama but without the risk of injury to (or scaring the sh!t out of) ordinary people who are just going about their daily business.

Unfortunately everyone knows this would never work without individual officials monitoring each rider and assessing penalties. The winners would be the ones that bent and broke the "terms of engagement". Which would just cause competitive people to also break or bend the rules.

One option could be required dash cams and penalties for reckless driving. Run a red light? Add 30 seconds to your time. Buzz a pedestrian? Add 15 seconds to your time. Cut off a car? Add 5 seconds

The only issue with those types of rules is it kind of kills the excitement of the finish line, as results would not be final until video review of each rider had been conducted. Its an idea though 🤷‍♂️

[wohal]

Organize an event where participants have to shoot hats off of pedestriants with BB guns.

To make whiners happy, offer safety googles and big hats to people in the area.

I think this would be great for the sport.

Juggling knifes over crowded areas, like balancing on a rope between two buildings and juggling with hard sharp objects would be an other idea to draw attention to juggling and balancing.

Sure these have some risks involved for people on the streets, but there are already rats that can bite you and metal boxes zooming around so what's some flying BB pellets or knifes above your head while it's so much fun for the participants.

 

[Jason McNeil]

17 hours ago, Rich Sam said:

I say go after the sponsors of this race, let them know your dollars will not be supporting functions like this... already emailed my disappointment to a few.  @evX_Mick profiting off endangerment of families and kids is sickening.

This viewpoint is not correct. Mickey has poured a great many hours in creating his channel content, I doubt anyone has worked as hard, or shown the level of commitment that he has. Whatever compensation he has received through referals, product, is in no way commensurate to the time, energy & expertise invested. 

I can only surmise that this video was intended to invoke the polarizing strong reactions that it has. My personal opinion is that it oversteps the boundaries of 'pushing the limits', relishing danger-for-danger's sake. This might have an appeal to <25% of the general audience, yet it's hard to see that this sort of video will be in any way beneficial long term. For the argument that 'no one got hurt', that's true, but it's just a question of probabilities—riding the wrong way down a one-way street, through lights, & on the speed limiter is going to be inifinitely more risky than following the rules of the road. A skilled Rider might be able to 'get lucky' with, say, 1,000hrs of such riding, but the reliance on a continuous streak of mistress luck is not conducive for survival & well-being, any one of a number of situations could occur ending what started out joyride, in a hospital bed, or worse. Another consideration is that those who are not nearly so experienced/skilled may try to emulate this style of riding to the detriment of themselves & bystanders.  

In the past, we've never asked to screen, preapprove, or censor reviewer content, giving the creators a freehand of using their better judgement. I've always supported Mickey with his endeavours, but in this case, I've asked him to remove all our association to this video. 

[UniVehje]

19 hours ago, dieterGRAMS said:

to satisfy the Soy Milk fed masses

This right here shows the attitude behind these people. Mickey has the same attitude. Insulting fellow riders who just point out that illegal riding should not be promoted. This kind of language also encourages followers of these influencers to think that to be cool and tough you cannot intervene in bad behaviour. 

I think racing EUCs is great and it's fantastic that Ewheels and EUCO are supporting it. But I hope sponsoring would follow one very basic rule. Races are to be had in closed areas. Same rule goes for every other sport. What people here are reacting to is racing among general public while also disregarding any traffic laws. That is all.

[winterwheel]

My view is all of us have been pushing boundaries all along, riding devices of questionable legality at best, taking our lives in hands with wheels that are under-powered or over-powered, of at times questionable build quality, sleeping in close proximity to devices with the potential to burn our houses down at any moment. Danger is everywhere, all the time, if one chooses to take that perspective. The constant harping on wearing gear shows that much of this community believes that stepping on a wheel at all, at any speed and for any distance, is taking one's life in one's hands and inviting potential disaster. And the constant expressed fear of legal changes shows we all know at some level that what do isn't really legal.

The view that potential for injury should be the standard for our behaviour doesn't make sense to me. Accidents and incidents have already occurred in significant numbers. Some are injured severely riding a few feet on a new wheel. Others have fallen awkwardly in the forest, or collided with thoughtless cars and broken limbs. A rider has been run down in the street and killed. Wheels have spontaneously combusted in cars and in warehouses. None of this happened in the video, but it certainly did happen, and all recently. If risk of injury or accident or possibility of incidents occurring were to be the standard then we would need to shut this entire enterprise down, immediately.

But we all do it anyway, taking our own risks in our own ways, to the level that makes sense to us in the time and place and which we live. In my community and for me, that means one thing. For the folks in the video, that means another. I'm not interested in dictating the way they should do their thing, just as I'd tell them where to go if they tried to apply their standards to me. 

 

 

 

 

 

[null]

15 hours ago, winterwheel said:

taking our own risks in our own ways

While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, the issue with the race (and the “I’m tough” attitude in general) is others people’s safety, not the rider. While it’s hard to be perfect all the time you can at least avoid putting others in risk of serious injury just for the thrill.

I don’t care if the NY gang break their necks on larger roads, IMO they should be free to do so, but don’t race into pedestrians who are are using the crossing like they should.

Riding (and just existing) in Paris I (and my loved ones) get deliberately put in danger all the time. Words aren’t colorful enough to reflect what I think of those people, no matter what vehicle propels them.

 

edit:

15 hours ago, winterwheel said:

I'm not interested in dictating the way they should do their thing, just as I'd tell them where to go if they tried to apply their standards to me. 

This is exactly what the NY racers are doing: applying their standards to others. Not even by dictating but by force.

I'm not here asking anyone to behave for my local legislator, I'm just stating my opinion that people who force their play with danger on others are bad, bad people.

Edited June 13, 2021 by null

[wohal]

52 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

all of us have been pushing boundaries all along...

 

 

 

 

 

Organising an event that endangers everyone who happened to be in the same area is on an entirely different level.

Reckless behaviour is out there all the time, plenty of drivers doing it, but organising an event to collect and motivate individuals to participate in an activity designed to be dangerous and risky to people who just happened to be there, risking their lives against their will is fucked up.

[winterwheel]

In my view the idea of how much the safety and risk to civilians was posed by this event is vastly overstated; people with an agenda are grabbing a couple of bits of video and allowing their imaginations to run wild in order to support the contention that everyone should ride the same way they do. I wasn't there so I don't know, but then neither were most if not all of the people screaming about it here.

The people onsite, the actual witnesses to the event, say it didn't pose an undue risk and I'm good with that.

Edited June 12, 2021 by winterwheel

[wohal]

37 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

The people onsite, the actual witnesses to the event, say it didn't pose an undue risk and I'm good with that.

What exactly could those people seen onsite that makes a high speed race, where people were going in the wrong lane, running red lights into crowds of people crossing the street, that makes the risks involved with all the above reasonable?

"Well they weren't going that fast so the the race didn't pose an undue risk"

Even if the video was at 2x speed to make it seem faster, the risk imposed on unwilling participants are undue.

What else could someone onsite seen?

Edited June 12, 2021 by wohal

[Roadpower]

The fox says the hen house is perfectly safe!

 

[winterwheel]

I know you guys will never change you minds, I'm okay with that.

My agenda is to let the people involved know that there other points of view out here in the hinterlands.

[Roadpower]

1 hour ago, winterwheel said:

I know you guys will never change you minds, I'm okay with that.

Don't write us off because we have a contrary opinion. This is why I am a free speech absolutist, because I know there is value in hashing things out. Ideas have to get beaten up to be tested for validity.

Quote

My agenda is to let the people involved know that there other points of view out here in the hinterlands.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

[GothamMike]

EUCs and Skooters have already been banned on the West Side Bike route, Where else do you want us banned? Central Park? NYC Bike lanes? The Williamsburg Bridge? Keep acting like ASSHOLES and it will come true.

A few cops placed in critical locations, (like the Willie B Bridge) ready to Repo your EUCs and it is GAME OVER. All for a few hours of feeling kewl on a Sunday Morning.

[gon2fast]

We need to come together as a community to solve this.

Each rider/area is going to have its own accepted style. I do not understand the need to push a wheel to its limits in traffic, but to each their own as I also realize that riding high speed in traffic is not necessary in my area. We need to embrace each other's ideas/situations and not bicker about stances that are not global.

With the idea of being global in mind we also have to realize that the content we present to the world will influence what we can and cannot do moving forward. When I got into this lifestyle it was pretty much under the radar from the general public. Now that we have a rapidly expanding community our presence is known and felt. 

All that I am saying is that the decisions of the future, which could make or break us as free riders, will be judged by the content of today. Do your races, but think of the perspective outside of our community.

I also feel that we need to partner up with our other PEV riders (Eskates, Onewheels, scooters, etc.) and start a single coalition to show that we are not a joke and that we are here to stay.

 

[Lex Smith]

I used to work for central government in New Zealand and I can say this - when the half wits that run our country start looking to regulate any activity they don't understand their first port of call is to see what other countries/cities are doing.  So a ban in New York could well result in a ban in New Zealand.  While I realize no one outside of NZ gives a fuck about that it does illustrate the fact that the actions of a small group can have far reaching consequences.

The flip side is I left that job about 2 years ago and they'd only just discovered Facebook and Instagram at that stage so I'm guessing I'll have a few years of free riding before they clamp down :-)

[Mark13i]

I hope evX doesn't take offense and draws good conclusions.
I understand the urban idea of the Alleycat competition, different from the closed zone competition. I believe that it could have been organized differently - also spectacularly and with positive publicity for the rest of the society outside the EUC world.
After all, you can close small areas to random people in several parts of the city:
- time trial area,
- area with obstacles, e.g. stairs, narrow passages.
and the rider moves between areas, but time is not measured, only penalty points are added for traffic violations (after video analysis)

It is spectacular, it is among people ... and most importantly, it is safer and with culture.
Bonus for sponsors; Active viewers stand by the closed zones and have time to get interested in EUC.

btw: "evX you made a nice movie"

[Mark13i]

"Pseudo best" riders from NYC, come to this country. I can already see how good you are when no one follows any rules

 

 

 

[Paul A]

If the NY riders believe:

they are exempt from road laws

there was no concerns for pedestrian safety

they were not reckless and endangered public safety

because of their skills and experience

Have them ride the next Alley Cat race with no helmet, no protective gear.

[GPW]

53 minutes ago, Paul A said:

If the NY riders believe:

they are exempt from road laws

there was no concerns for pedestrian safety

they were not reckless and endangered public safety

because of their skills and experience

Have them ride the next Alley Cat race with no helmet, no protective gear.

Can we find ways to express outrage that would not risk being interpreted as wishing harm on someone? I don't think the intended point, but this could be read that way.