Incredibly bad look for this community.

[Camenbert]

13 minutes ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

Remember when the first cars showed up, over 100 years ago? 

Because they were loud too? because of the drivers?
what happen since, aren't they everywhere? No doubt EUCs will have same future

In fact the title is misleading, I see 2 community : who see EUCs as a Sport, who see EUCs as the future of clean transportation.
The fears and expectations are well different for both community.

[winterwheel]

I agree with the car metaphor; no matter what this community or that does, the long term prognosis for wheels is that they will be everywhere. Wheels are just too useful, and dovetail too nicely with a world that is trying very hard to reduce it's environmental footprint.

Edited June 24, 2021 by winterwheel

[Paulo Mesquita]

7 hours ago, Camenbert said:

Because they were loud too? because of the drivers?
what happen since, aren't they everywhere? No doubt EUCs will have same future

In fact the title is misleading, I see 2 community : who see EUCs as a Sport, who see EUCs as the future of clean transportation.
The fears and expectations are well different for both community.

Absolutely... 2 different ways EUCs are going to establish themselves. 

[Paulo Mesquita]

5 hours ago, winterwheel said:

I agree with the car metaphor; no matter what this community or that does, the long term prognosis for wheels is that they will be everywhere. Wheels are just too useful, and dovetail too nicely with a world that is trying very hard to reduce it's environmental footprint.

They are the future, no doubt. But we, as pioneers, are going to have quite a few obstacles until EUCs get there 😁

[GothamMike]

In response to "One City/State/Nation cannot ban us. They are everywhere"

For decades California had unique emissions controls for Automobiles in North America. The rest of US/CAN finally followed suit. Parched States like CA, NEV, AZ etc for the rest of America to use Low-Flush toilets that don't get the job done. 

If one or two states forbid the sale of EUCs that can go faster than 20 MPH, it could prevent all of us from buying faster EUCs. 

[winterwheel]

1 hour ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

But we, as pioneers, are going to have quite a few obstacles until EUCs get there

It's the obstacles that make things worth doing. 

[Paul A]

June 12, 2021

Ewheels response to alleycat race.

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for reaching out. Our inbox has been blowing up today with this. Very frustrating. We just posted on YouTube:

 

While we did sponsor a "race video" with evX, we do not request editorial control or censor the content creator. We did not personally vet this content, and do not condone, encourage, or support unsafe riding.

 

Thank you,

 

William

 

 

 

[Paul A]

News coverage from United States, United Kingdom, France, Poland

 

USA: https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/06/16/lisa-banes-dies-after-upper-west-side-hit-and-run/

When asked if the city will better regulate e-bike and scooter traffic infractions, Mayor Bill de Blasio said, “I’m very troubled when people go against traffic and create danger for themselves and others. So we’re going to keep refining how we regulate, how we enforce. But again, anytime we believe a particular company is not acting in a way that’s safe for New Yorkers, we also maintain the option to shut them down.”

 

UK:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9689609/Bill-Blasio-calls-regulation-e-scooters-actress-Lisa-Banes-dies-hit-run.html

The mayor of New York City pointed the finger at the state for legalizing electric scooters last year and said we 'have to be smart about' allowing the vehicles to further flood 'one of the most crowded places on earth.'

 

France: https://www.fr24news.com/a/2021/06/actress-lisa-banes-dies-after-being-hit-by-an-electric-scooter-and-hit-and-run-in-new-york.html

As a result, she suffered a head injury, the Post reports, and witnesses said the scooter driver blew a red light and then fled after mowing it down.  The force of the scooter impact caused Banes to fly off the crosswalk.

 

Poland: https://www.polishnews.co.uk/in-wake-of-lisa-banes-death-bill-de-blasio-calls-for-more-e-scooters-e-bikes-regulations/

De Blasio stated throughout a Tuesday press briefing that New Yorkers have expressed concern that the town is “going to see increasingly crowded streets, increasingly crowded bike lanes, various kinds of autos going at various kinds of velocity” and that it’s “going to be troublesome for pedestrians.”

 

 

[Camenbert]

Why keep posting about eScooter Kills on EUC forum, do you really want people to make no differences?
There is an old say "Be careful of what you ask, because you might get it"

There have also been a hit & go last week in Paris, a young women die. The 2 men on a (rental I guess) escooter have just been arrested.
200kg of body on poor escooter maneuverability, with no respect to the device as not owned, and maybe drunk, what could go wrong?
I am sorry to say, but such death well happen every week.

The problem is the rental scheme, you can have never ride a scooter, you can have no knowledge of the device or respect for it, you can be 2 on one, you can be drunk as hell, you'll still find a escooter at the corner of the street begging "take me for a ride".
NONE of this apply to EUCs.

It's amazing to see the politics (still) making a difference, but not some of the EUC "community"
"Incredibly bad look for this community" apply for this other extreme too.

[Gasmantle]

52 minutes ago, Camenbert said:

Why keep posting about eScooter Kills on EUC forum, 

As EUC riders we know the difference but the general public and those who draft the legislation often see the 2 as broadly similar. Whether we like it or not Escooter accidents / fatalities etc will have a direct influence on the direction of travel of any future EUC legislation.

[winterwheel]

1 hour ago, Camenbert said:

Why keep posting about eScooter Kills on EUC forum, do you really want people to make no differences?

I agree with you. I suppose one small value is to re-emphasize the notion that EUCs are not Scooters. Say it with me, EUCs are not Scooters.  All together now, EUCs are not Scooters. 

[Treatz]

1 hour ago, Camenbert said:

Why keep posting about eScooter Kills on EUC forum, do you really want people to make no differences?
There is an old say "Be careful of what you ask, because you might get it"

 

 

If a person can’t see the relationship between e-scooters and EUC’s, how is that person qualified to have an opinion worth entertaining?  As if the average pedistrian or lawmaker will know the difference.

[onizukagto]

1 hour ago, Camenbert said:

Why keep posting about eScooter Kills on EUC forum, do you really want people to make no differences?
 

Probably because until EUC become more common, it is inevitable that any law applied to escooters will more than likely apply to EUC as well. 

You only have to see the legal history of cars, motorbikes, bikes. 

And also how laws applied to escooters currently around the world that also affect EUC.

[Mark13i]

1 hour ago, Camenbert said:

Why keep posting about eScooter Kills on EUC forum

For the public - we are the same as riding a scooter, etc.  The number of wheels and the principle of operation does not matter, two things are important:

- the vehicle is powered by some engine,

(the second more important) - the driving cannot be stopped by taking the driving license or restricting access by the high bar of obtaining a driving license.  It irritates people that as a community they have no control over who rides;  - "everyone can buy and go"

[Treatz]

8 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

I agree with you. I suppose one small value is to re-emphasize the notion that EUCs are not Scooters. Say it with me, EUCs are not Scooters.  All together now, EUCs are not Scooters. 

It’s time for moderators to step in, please.  There has to be something against trolling on this forum.

If this guy can’t see the connection between escooters and euc’s, just like he can’t see the difference between criticism and bullying, then he’s not here to have a sincere conversation. At this stage, it’s starting to appear as gaslighting. 

He barges in here calling us bullies because he disagrees with us. Then he prances in here with his “repeat after me” nonsense…in bold…3 annoying times. 

this thread is about concern for other people’s safety—yet he’s tried to make it about everything else. Just read his comments throughout this thread. This forum member clearly won’t let the conversation be about that.

He can’t comprehend that the public and lawmakers and law enforcement see no meaningful distinction between euc’s and e-scooters, but he makes it our problem.

[Gasmantle]

6 minutes ago, Treatz said:

It’s time for moderators to step in, please.  There has to be something against trolling on this forum.

If this guy can’t see the connection between escooters and euc’s, just like he can’t see the difference between criticism and bullying, then he’s not here to have a sincere conversation. At this stage, it’s starting to appear as gaslighting. 

He barges in here calling us bullies because he disagrees with us. Then he prances in here with his “repeat after me” nonsense…in bold…3 annoying times. 

this thread is about concern for other people’s safety—yet he’s tried to make it about everything else. Just read his comments throughout this thread. This forum member clearly won’t let the conversation be about that.

He can’t comprehend that the public and lawmakers and law enforcement see no meaningful distinction between euc’s and e-scooters, but he makes it our problem.

Well said.

How on earth can anyone who condones the Alleycat race and blindly refuse to see the connection between Escooters and EUC's be taken seriously?

[Kekafuch]

32 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

I agree with you. I suppose one small value is to re-emphasize the notion that EUCs are not Scooters. Say it with me, EUCs are not Scooters.  All together now, EUCs are not Scooters. 

In the topic of public opinion and future safety regulations, these are in the same category. Electric motorized vehicle that the public is using more and more on public spaces. 
 

The same shops sell the EUC and Scooters! Youtubers will often market EUC and escooters. Group rides will often have both types of users riding similar routes. 
 

The only difference is that there’s more escooters on the roads. The speeds and momentum is also very similar. 

[Camenbert]

 

1 minute ago, Treatz said:

He can’t comprehend that the public and lawmakers and law enforcement see no meaningful distinction between euc’s and e-scooters, but he makes it our problem.

I am sorry to see you fell annoyed by this conversation
If you read me correctly, it's not escooter vs EUCs, but rental scheme against owning, EUCs have no and never will have rental scheme.

The question seems legit about security, why posting about all the excess of this scheme?
Do you really want to associate EUCs to that?

Maintaining the confusion is Incredibly bad look for this community, you cannot remove that.

 

[MKader17]

23 hours ago, Camenbert said:

Because they were loud too? because of the drivers?
what happen since, aren't they everywhere? No doubt EUCs will have same future

In fact the title is misleading, I see 2 community : who see EUCs as a Sport, who see EUCs as the future of clean transportation.
The fears and expectations are well different for both community.

We cannot be so naive to think that the future of EUCs is possible without one or the other. Cars, Motorcycles, etc. have always been driven to innovation by the performance minded. The affordability is driven by those who use it for utility. Safety is a chief concern for the utilitarian but I would argue that the majority of safety is developed protecting the performance minded.

What this means is there will be those who are irresponsible. It still happens on vehicles. In fact, most people will not buy a car if it doesn't allow for a certain level of irresponsibility. We will just have to do our best to provide outlets for the performance minded and be careful to inform the public that this is the actions of the few, not the many.

 

[Treatz]

1 hour ago, Camenbert said:

"

He can’t comprehend that the public and lawmakers and law enforcement see no meaningful distinction between euc’s and e-scooters, but he makes it our problem." Treatz

I am sorry to see you fell annoyed by this conversation
If you read me correctly, it's not escooter vs EUCs, but rental scheme against owning, EUCs have no and never will have rental scheme.

The question seems legit about security, why posting about all the excess of this scheme?
Do you really want to associate EUCs to that?

Maintaining the confusion is Incredibly bad look for this community, you cannot remove that.

 

Likewise, I am sorry to see that you claim that a comment clearly made to Winterwheel was said to you.

But please, do continue to speak to people in a passive-aggressive tone on this forum as you lecture them about not reading you correctly.  

P.s. on a related topic: if there are any rakes about, try not to step on them and smack yourself in the forehead.

-------------------

To everyone else, this is exactly the kind of games that have been the pattern of Camenbert and Winterwheel. At this point, I do wonder if they are a single person with 2 accounts or just a highly coordinated ping pong team--as the rest of us get bounced back and forth.

We are getting gaslit.  It only took me 17 pages to realize it.  They aren't serious.

This topic is simple: incredibly bad look for the community.  Camenbert/Winterwheel could just say whether they think consideration for the safety of others matters: yes or no.  That's all. Everything else was just about trying to win at any cost, even if it means making public and, say it with me, *unfounded* accusations.

I've asked Winterwheel to back up his very disturbing claims that there was bullying, or to apologize. He's done neither, and yet he still pops off as if we forgot he falsely accused the members of this community because we dared to not hold his views. 

Remember when the rest of us abusers, haters and bullies tried to politely end the thread and move on......?

Who was it that wanted to keep it going?  Take 2 guesses.  Why is this even allowed?

 

[winterwheel]

4 hours ago, Kekafuch said:

In the topic of public opinion and future safety regulations, these are in the same category.

The point I was trying to make is that it is up to us to help the public draw the distinction between the two. If we don't do it, surely nobody else will. When we start citing accidents and whatnot for scooters as if they were equally applicable to us, then we're failing in that and yes, we'll end up suffering the consequences that arise from bad scooter behaviour.

[Camenbert]

IP addresses should address your questioning

Does the safety of others matters: YES!
Do we have rights to insult Evx or who ever from "this community": NO!
Can we mix apple and orange* to force you felling guilty: NO!
Who's more hatable burnt head or moralist? Good Question.

*car and motorcycles are rules by the same book, wrote by the same legislator, yet no one confuse them, no one to blame about the other, and none feel from the same community (I have yet to see a forum egal about both)
 

In my time when someone didn't like a movie, he wasn't doing it's promotion. Nowaday it's the opposite, dont ask me why!
That's all.

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Camenbert

[winterwheel]

The topic was simple: a specific video represented an incredibly bad look for the community.

I most definitely disagree with that.

[Gasmantle]

8 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

The topic was simple: a specific video represented an incredibly bad look for the community.

I most definitely disagree with that.

If you genuinely can't see how the video in question represents a bad look for the EUC community then I'd suggest you probably shouldn't be riding any vehicle whether is has 1, 2, or 4 wheels.

[Treatz]

9 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

The topic was simple: a specific video represented an incredibly bad look for the community.

I most definitely disagree with that.

Wrong, the poster even clarified. This thread about the specific behavior in that specific video. You know, where a kid almost got run over...and the other things that the rest of us have clearly stated was our concern (despite your attempts to make it about everything other than that).

It's clear, you condone that type of riding, others do not. Let's move on without you accusing people of being a bully. Reasonable enough, or do you have to argue with even that as well?