Incredibly bad look for this community.

[Sumako]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

No. No-one is criticizing loud sounds in general because of the loudness itself. It’s about the purpose the loud sounds are being used for. In your example:

The horn is used in an impolite manner, and the rider does come out as a bit of a bully, but the horn is being used to make others follow the traffic laws. In the Evx video a rider was yelling for others to give room when he was the one breaking the traffic laws.

The horn is being used rudely? I just that video. One of the biggest problems on that bridge in NYC are people walking in the Bike Lane. This is a huge problem. I’m blown away by how many people don’t seem to get that if you are walking, you walk in the pedestrian lane. In the bike path where I live this is not an issue. But there have been time where pedestrians have gotten the 120 treatment from me. If honking your horn to warn pedestrians to get back into the ped lane and out of the Bike/PEV lane, then all you’re doing is proving the NYC crowd who says; “you don’t get NYC” that they are correct. In fact you’re proving that you don’t understand bike lanes. What that rider is doing helps keep others safe. 

 

[Kekafuch]

On 6/19/2021 at 3:21 AM, bracky72 said:

Honestly defending Mick or this behavior is like defending drunk driving.

This phrase should be meme’d. 

[That Guy]

What a curious thread! But isn’t it just someone’s video upset (a big number of) the audience and they spoke out, and then their reaction, in turn, upset the author of the video and/or those who know him in real life?...

So, I learnt… 😊

• Sometimes people will dislike something you think is surely “super-cool”.
• There are always boundaries to what people can do or say even if you don't know them.
• EUC’s are both thrilling toys made for crazy fun and not toys at all made for responsible transport.
• Politicians suck (always)…

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Sumako said:

The horn is being used rudely? I just that video. One of the biggest problems on that bridge in NYC are people walking in the Bike Lane. This is a huge problem. I’m blown away by how many people don’t seem to get that if you are walking, you walk in the pedestrian lane. In the bike path where I live this is not an issue. But there have been time where pedestrians have gotten the 120 treatment from me. If honking your horn to warn pedestrians to get back into the ped lane and out of the Bike/PEV lane, then all you’re doing is proving the NYC crowd who says; “you don’t get NYC” that they are correct. In fact you’re proving that you don’t understand bike lanes. What that rider is doing helps keep others safe. 

 

So, you picked a single phrase from my reply that you disagree with and replied before reading the whole post? Or you just didn’t understand what I wrote. Or maybe I simply failed to express myself in English? I know that to have happened before.

Edited June 21, 2021 by mrelwood

[Sumako]

8 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

So, you picked a single phrase from my reply that you disagree with and replied before reading the whole post? Or you just didn’t understand what I wrote. Or maybe I simply failed to express myself in English? I know that to have happened before.

Actually I disagreed with you calling the rider in the bridge video a “bully”. Exactly how was that dude being a bully. It was weird and completely lost me. I caught your reference as part of your contrast against Turbo. Story is, Turbo forget his horn, so he improvised. Given the situation would you have advised that he did and said nothing?

 

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Sumako said:

Actually I disagreed with you calling the rider in the bridge video a “bully”. Exactly how was that dude being a bully. It was weird and completely lost me.

Did you find his way of using the horn and his riding in general as a polite and friendly way of reminding pedestrians that they should not walk on the bike path?

3 hours ago, Sumako said:

Story is, Turbo forget his horn, so he improvised. Given the situation would you have advised that he did and said nothing?

You’re still completely missing the point. Horn or no horn, yelling or no yelling, the sounds or lack of sound is secondary to the issue of endangering pedestrians, which is what we’ve been discussing.

 Given the situation, I would’ve not ridden fast through red lights and very close to pedestrians crossing the street on a green light. Yelling or no yelling, horn or no horn, is all secondary to the risk he created for other people with his riding.

[mrelwood]

Let me also ask you this @Sumako, which way do you think would be more effective in making you realize that you’re walking on the wrong side of the street, and change your ways:

 1: Having a single rider with a strange vehicle you’re never seen before play a loud horn and plow through the traffic in a hurry, or

2: Having someone to politely remind you that you should walk at the other side of the street because you’re slowing down the traffic while walking on the bike lane you didn’t notice?

Note that I’m not suggesting that instead of a horn someone would have to be friendly enough to go buy a beer to every pedestrian on the bike lane. I’m simply asking, which of the two ways above do you think would be more effective.

Edited June 21, 2021 by mrelwood

[Camenbert]

On 6/19/2021 at 6:41 PM, UniVehje said:

He is an absolute asshole

I don't get something here, insulting another member of this forum is allowed if you are Moderator ?

Either we can all go wild, or this have to be remove.
 

[Camenbert]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Did you find his way of using the horn and his riding in general as a polite and friendly way of reminding pedestrians that they should not walk on the bike path?

Do you know how often he take this bridge?
If he didn't get an accident with another EUC/escooter/bicycle because of a pedestrian suddenly on the bike path?
Etc...

At least have you been on that bridge once?

52 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

1: Having a single rider with a strange vehicle you’re never seen before play a loud horn and plow through the traffic in a hurry, or

2: Having someone to politely remind you that you should walk at the other side of the street because you’re slowing down the traffic while walking on the bike lane you didn’t notice?

OK it seems not, no one in NYC have hours to spare explaining to so many pedestrian what they must know already.

The guilty is definitely not that rider, maybe not the pedestrian even, but who ever was thinking some paint is a good enough solution.
Guess what, if nobody raise his voice, do you think investment will come to fix it?
What if this video was made to show how crap and unsafe this bicycle path is to the local administrators??!

 

[UniVehje]

18 hours ago, Camenbert said:

I don't get something here, insulting another member of this forum is allowed if you are Moderator ?

Either we can all go wild, or this have to be remove.
 

I'll edit it. I guess that was too blunt and an insult. I'll try to find another expression for someone behaving badly. Edit: the neutral term seems to be bully. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by UniVehje

[Camenbert]

thank you UniVehje

[Tasku]

Maybe Judge 'Cat' Dreadd should patrol the streets of.. 

[mrelwood]

 

27 minutes ago, Camenbert said:

OK it seems not, no one in NYC have hours to spare explaining to so many pedestrian what they must know already.

Oh my god. I literally said in the next paragraph that I’m not suggesting that.

And I wasn’t even talking about the bridge in NYC. As I wrote in the first paragraph, I asked about which of these two fictional situations the person @Sumako would himself as a pedestrian find more effective as a reminder.

 The fictional situation was created to explain why the guy in the video could do the same thing every single day of his life without making the slightest change in how the pedestrians behave a minute after he has passed.

Yes, the bike lane on that bridge is a ridiculous afterthought at best, probably to shortsightedly please a party that has requested for one. And a cyclist would be slowed down to a fraction if one would not be a bully on that specific bridge. I agree with all that.

But the behavior is still unfriendly and impolite, which were the only negative things I said about the video.

And let me say it again: Such behavior is probably required for traffic on that cycle lane to be even remotely fluent.

And again: It still doesn’t make the behavior in question to be polite.

 

27 minutes ago, Camenbert said:

What if this video was made to show how crap and unsafe this bicycle path is to the local administrators??!

For that it would hopefully be effective. And I’m very happy if the video has been used for that purpose. I perhaps need to remind you that I never criticized for making or publishing that video.

[jimjam.nyc]

Funny enough the Brooklyn Bridge where that video was shot, starting today they are converting a lane of traffic to a two way bike lane to fix this. 

Also this bridge was built a VERY long time ago. The amount of foot traffic on it today is just astounding. 

Most cyclists and pev riders avoid this bridge, especially during peak times. Hell I won't even walk over that bridge anymore, too many people

[Gasmantle]

Sounding the horn repeatedly as seen in the video on the Brooklyn bridge is rude and does nothing but fuel further resentment between pedestrians and cyclists.

Clearly the cycle lane on a narrow bridge with a high volume of pedestrians is far from ideal but in life we often need to work with shortcomings in the best interests of everyone. Although the 'rules' say the cycle lane is for cycles only in practice it is unworkable with such heavy pedestrian traffic and the cyclist needs to accommodate that.

No-one in their right mind can seriously expect such high numbers of pedestrians on a narrow crowded bridge not to stray into the cycle lane.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Gasmantle

[GothamMike]

Add a few minutes to your ride. Wear a yellow vest to look official. Stop and talk to Pedestrians, cars, trucks, in the bike lanes. If we all do it, many will stop. 
BUT…. Even on the sidewalks you will see groups of people locked arms walking down 5th Av and other major streets. You will also see beverage and UPS trucks parked in the bike lanes, just say “get out of the Bike Lane! “ 

 

[GothamMike]

2 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Funny enough the Brooklyn Bridge where that video was shot, starting today they are converting a lane of traffic to a two way bike lane to fix this. 

Also this bridge was built a VERY long time ago. The amount of foot traffic on it today is just astounding. 

Most cyclists and pev riders avoid this bridge, especially during peak times. Hell I won't even walk over that bridge anymore, too many people

The Brooklyn bridge used to support trolleys. There is space and support (?)for a segregated bike lane above the traffic and away from foot paths. It would have to be very lightweight. Given NYC finances, a financing plan might be needed. 

[winterwheel]

Many of us carry bear bells here, we can ring them fairly continuously when needed and they sound nice, kind of like Christmas sleigh bells or an ice cream truck, so nobody is too put out when we have to ring them vigorously. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by winterwheel

[Camenbert]

If you drive in Paris, you will be surprise to see the cars in the left lane being far on the left to leave space for motorcycles to pass.
Line splitting is not legal in France, but no car will try anymore to block a motorcycle during rush hours.
I let you think about how we arrived to that result.

At the beginning, 25 years ago, "we" wave the hand to thank cars that moves away, there were only few (and few motorcycle).
When it become quite accepted, "some" were making a sign with the hand, inviting the not yet "converted" to move further to the left.
If that was not understood, or worst ending by a horn or a move to the right, "one" of the motorcycle behind, might just smash the mirror passing by.

"we", "some" & "one" were one community, I never saw one motorcyclist insulting another, it was a team work without any consultation.
And the result is there. You can see by yourself.

 

3 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

starting today they are converting a lane of traffic to a two way bike lane to fix this. 

The result is there too.
The users of this new two way bike lane can thanks the ones unhappy with prior situation and who made it known.
At least you should not blame them !!!!!!!

[null]

52 minutes ago, Camenbert said:

And the result is there. You can see by yourself

I find that « result » despicable.
Moped / scooter / motorcycle riders in Paris are awful bullies ruining everyone’s ears and safety, shitting on democratic law, whether on the road or on the sidewalk. We are really profoundly disagreeing here. I literally wish death to "2RM" riders every time I go out, because they keep jeopardising my life. And if you dont lay flat to their bullying they'll attack you, which is what you apparently find to be a good thing.

Edited June 21, 2021 by null

[Camenbert]

I left Paris 12 years ago, now there are x5 Moped / scooter / motorcycle compare to year 2000, I agree it's start to be unpleasant.

But that was not the point, you miss it, it's about claiming there is a "community" then pointing who's asshole.
That's just show there is no "community".

 

[Sumako]

7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Let me also ask you this @Sumako, which way do you think would be more effective in making you realize that you’re walking on the wrong side of the street, and change your ways:

 1: Having a single rider with a strange vehicle you’re never seen before play a loud horn and plow through the traffic in a hurry, or

2: Having someone to politely remind you that you should walk at the other side of the street because you’re slowing down the traffic while walking on the bike lane you didn’t notice?

Note that I’m not suggesting that instead of a horn someone would have to be friendly enough to go buy a beer to every pedestrian on the bike lane. I’m simply asking, which of the two ways above do you think would be more effective.

Okay, I appreciate that you understood that I had a problem with how you spoke about Electric Dream’s video. 

The multiple choice question you pose, sounds to ME like either, that where you ride there are not a lot of cars or the streets are pretty safe, or you only ride in long group rides on the weekends on your Sherman, or maybe you don’t have a lot of experience in riding the EUC. Either option, it sounds like you have, at best, moderate experience riding in CROWDED bike/ev paths/lanes. That’s okay, there is no judgment here. I know a lot of weekend riders and riders who absolutely HATE riding in the day time unless it is with in the safety of a group ride. I get. Personally I am not a fan of riding at night, but I still do so I can be more comfortable at night.

How Electric Dreams used his horn is really the only way to do it. When you are dealing with pedestrians on the bike path is is a total mess and completely UNSAFE. Pedestrians need to KNOW the bike path is a street no different than the street you drive on. I do EXACTLY The same thing. I use my horn in the exact same way. You know else uses their horns and bells and even their voice in the same manor? Bicyclists! You want to see a loud Amgen hopeful? A crowd pedestrians on the bike path will do it. Real quick. Cyclists use AIRHORNS. Not kidding! There is one on Amazon specifically for these purposes. They’re loud! 

In NYC it is illegal for Pedestrians to be on the bike path. If a cop were to enforce it (they don’t) it would be a costly ticket. 

Point is that “politely” reminding someone that this is a bike lane works well in your head, but not a thing in real life.

To answer your question, the answer is 1.

 

https://www.treefortbikes.com/Delta-AirZound-115-dB-Rechargable-Air-Powered-Horn?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp333222342022&sc_intid=333222342022&gclid=CjwKCAjw8cCGBhB6EiwAgORey0LmjzueJwGcg7W03hFGswgPnBzimfbTLLsR6t698YZ-txj4R1A6bRoCisEQAvD_BwE

[Leucistic]

50 minutes ago, Sumako said:

Cyclists use AIRHORNS. Not kidding! There is one on Amazon specifically for these purposes. They’re loud! 

I'm using one 120Db. They are banned to use in Germany. I use it on my alley cat bike and now on my back pack. Pretty loud, but very effective when hurdling group if they make wrong turn in group rides. Also very good to get other riders attention when seeing danger. Dogs stop running after you once blasted. It even doesn't sound like horn it's more like train or eighteen wheeler coming at you. 

[mrelwood]

 

1 hour ago, Sumako said:

I do EXACTLY The same thing. I use my horn in the exact same way.

 

1 hour ago, Sumako said:

Point is that “politely” reminding someone that this is a bike lane works well in your head, but not a thing in real life.

To answer your question, the answer is 1.

So, has the situation improved? Do you need to use less horn now than when you started?

 

[mike_bike_kite]

51 minutes ago, FunkyWheeling said:

I'm using one 120Db. They are banned to use in Germany. I use it on my alley cat bike and now on my back pack. Pretty loud, but very effective when hurdling group if they make wrong turn in group rides. Also very good to get other riders attention when seeing danger. Dogs stop running after you once blasted. It even doesn't sound like horn it's more like train or eighteen wheeler coming at you. 

It's weird, I have a horn on every vehicle I own but I never ever use them except to test they work before the yearly inspection (MOT). I used to commute by motorbike through London's rush hour traffic but never ever felt the need to use the horn. You'd see other drivers using their horns all the time, they certainly weren't any faster, I just assumed they just were more frustrated by life and this was their way of expressing their pent up frustration. I currently live next to a blind junction on a 20mph road and a couple of times a day I'll hear people blast their horns as they speed down the road. They actually seem enraged to find a car turning as they race round a blind corner. I personally find these people a little sad but I do find it a bit annoying having to listen to these idiots.