Incredibly bad look for this community.

[winterwheel]

5 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Others will follow, making great YT content, and the world will keep spinning.

Some will follow, nervously editing their videos, wondering what aspect of their videos will cause the angry mob to rise up and cancel them too.

The really good ones will take a look at this and decide to make videos about some other, safer topic.

[CarlW]

I'm new here and just trying to understand the community I've stumbled into.  I have little knowledge of who this evX fellow is, but having watched some of his EUC review content he seems like a talented guy both as a rider and video creator.  My contribution so far to this conversation was a single sentence about common courtesy.  The main issue for me had nothing to do with potential laws curtailing EUC usage.  What stood out to me was why are EUC resellers supporting content of people being dicks on the equipment they sell?  It occurred to me that soon my money will be their money, so in a round about way I could be contributing to this sort of content in the future.  Fortunately any concern of that was dispelled by a quick and decisive response from a main reseller.

Then it comes down to valid criticism from this community and how the content creator chose to react as well as his ardent supporters.  It would appear that had he taken into account the perspective of some of his viewing customers with a more professional attitude outcomes could have been different.  This is where character would seem to enter the picture. 

I am not sure why EUC consumers are stuck learning about different models from various dudes on the internet who may or may not have ulterior motives.  It would seem to me we should be expecting more from Manufacturers and Resellers.             

 

[Planemo]

13 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

Some will follow, nervously editing their videos, wondering what aspect of their videos will cause the angry mob to rise up and cancel them too.

True, but then nervous editing goes on everywhere. It's the fine line between free speech/film and excessive backlash. Everyone has to think about it at the very least. Those who push the boundaries have to expect the repercussions. It's not rocket science.

13 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

The really good ones will take a look at this and decide to make videos about some other, safer topic.

Possibly, but I feel that there will also be really good ones (Hsaing IMO) who does sometimes venture to tread towards the further edge of that thin line and generally does pretty well as a result.

I'm not a hater of Mick, I never made any comment on the YT vid, and I certainly wouldn't have commented towards his family, but it's a simple case of that particular vid being near the knuckle for many viewers, and it got similar responses to the many other unrelated vids that also go near the knuckle. You push the boundaries of what is considered to be acceptable to members of the public, you get hate. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but I feel it should be expected.

[Lex Smith]

1 hour ago, Tasku said:

Everybody makes mistakes.
Rarely you see someone taking responsibility, also for actions of others.
I agree with @winterwheel, today we all lost.

As community we had nothing but hate to give.
Community is the base we need, in order to make difference in the laws and legislation. How fragile it seems to be. This hobby you people have is so rare after all.

Can't wait to see all the people now rise up and show how good content you can make, for years to come, just like Mick did. Step up now and show us, so much talk but, please show how good content creator you are.

I would posit that no videos are better than videos that make us look like a bunch of reckless inconsiderate assholes to the wider public.

My interest in EUC's was stimulated in no small part by Kuji Rolls and Wrongway.

[Sumako]

5 hours ago, Mark13i said:

Is the movie consistent with the topic of the thread?  Because I don't know if I should watch it

Was that a serious question?

[winterwheel]

Locked and loaded and ready to take down the next transgressor. Good for you.

[Sumako]

1 hour ago, winterwheel said:

Some will follow, nervously editing their videos, wondering what aspect of their videos will cause the angry mob to rise up and cancel them too.

The really good ones will take a look at this and decide to make videos about some other, safer topic.

You know for a moment I was motivated to make strong EUC content. I love my Tesla and what I have been able to do with it. I was excited about being a part of this community. But the treatment evX received after producing a year and a half of incredible content , all because he “went off of the reservation”, (if only for 17 minutes) really showed me how intolerant and vicious this online dynamic can be. Nope, I’m sticking solo. I am happy with few new good friends I have made here. That’s it.

[Sumako]

3 hours ago, Treatz said:

Everyone here is responsible for someone else’s decisions? Explain, please.

Let’s start with the group consciousness’s inability to look at said creator’s body of work and realize the crazy video was more of a one off or creative endeavor. This group failed to remember that he was a favorite because of his high quality work and conscious responsible narrative when it came to riding. Instead, this group went for the throat; calling this guy toxic or harmful to the community...over one stupid video. 

But yeah no one is really responsible for any one else’s feelings. 

[Gasmantle]

3 hours ago, winterwheel said:

Well congratulations everyone, you've succeeded in driving the top video guy we have out of the wheel video game. 

He wasn't driven away from producing videos by anyone on this forum.

Some members here expressed their concerns that some of his material presented EUC riders as reckless individuals with little regard for the law or the safety of others. It's a forum of differing opinions and is perfectly reasonable to express concerns especially at a time where EUC's are largely illegal while trying to present a case for legalisation.

The video producer is more than welcome to record and upload any video he wishes, but if he is seen to be promoting dangerous riding in public and painting sensible riders in a bad light then he can expect criticism. How he deals with that criticism is his own choice.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Gasmantle

[shellac]

3 hours ago, winterwheel said:

Well congratulations everyone, you've succeeded in driving the top video guy we have out of the wheel video game. 

 

19 minutes ago, Sumako said:

Let’s start with the group consciousness’s inability to look at said creator’s body of work and realize the crazy video was more of a one off or creative endeavor. This group failed to remember that he was a favorite because of his high quality work and conscious responsible narrative when it came to riding. Instead, this group went for the throat; calling this guy toxic or harmful to the community...over one stupid video. 

OK, I was hoping this topic would die off but this evx mourning is nonsense. First of all, the man wants clicks and is serving this video so he can have a dramatic comeback and increase his audience. Come on, he considers himself an “artist” and he’s simply not leaving like that.

In terms of top content creators I would put hsiang, wrong way, and kuji in that category. Evx had good production values in his videos—in fact too good because at some point overly slick production makes the video feel inauthentic and corporate.

As an EUC fan myself who watches a lot of yt I would tolerate his 1990s MTVesque theme music and backwards baseball cap faux badassery, and enjoyed some of his works, but the alleycat race video he posted showed either at best poor judgement and at worst a very cynical attempt to create controversy for clicks. I’m thinking maybe it’s the latter. 

Now comes the bemoaning the so called “cancel culture”. Of course cancel culture isn’t really a thing. Complaining about it reflects a desire for some people to be able to do whatever they want, no matter how irresponsible and defiant of common sense, and not have any consequences. 

[.....]

2 hours ago, Planemo said:

True, but then nervous editing goes on everywhere. It's the fine line between free speech/film and excessive backlash. Everyone has to think about it at the very least. Those who push the boundaries have to expect the repercussions. It's not rocket science.

Possibly, but I feel that there will also be really good ones (Hsaing IMO) who does sometimes venture to tread towards the further edge of that thin line and generally does pretty well as a result.

I'm not a hater of Mick, I never made any comment on the YT vid, and I certainly wouldn't have commented towards his family, but it's a simple case of that particular vid being near the knuckle for many viewers, and it got similar responses to the many other unrelated vids that also go near the knuckle. You push the boundaries of what is considered to be acceptable to members of the public, you get hate. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but I feel it should be expected.

I have adopted a new editting policy. Anytime It may appear that I was going to violate obvious traffic law (stop signs ect), i add a little blur spot in the video. Luckily I am the one who edits my own videos. When I see something suspect, I get to decide if it needs broadcasted to YT or not. When i go trolling for hookers and robbing banks on my euc, I leave the cameras at home..

I did watch hsiang's vid and I was not all that shocked. Yes, its retarded to film and promote an illegal race, but he seemed to straddle the line of acceptable, by downplaying it. Hsiangs attitude is also his saving grace.  I still maintain that these races are nothing new. Its done all the time with cars, bike, on foot, you name it. What IS new, is how race members are boldly advertising their actions. I am a little surprised at how aggressively people are being when it comes to attacking the creators. But hell, I've gotten flak for things in my vid and hardly anoyone watches me. DOulbe edged sword it seems. You want TONS of viewers, you gotta cater to the masses. ONce you have tons of viewers, you're gna easily piss off more people. Hell, people hate on me for simply not wearing a helmet. I've been personally attacked more than once, and Im just a normal idiot who makes bad jokes and endangers himself primarily. I've found that when you are being attacked, its best to just thank them for watching and move on. If a HUGE outcry occurs froma  video that has illegal activity, I'd pull that bitch immediately. Freedom of speech means you can say or NOT say what you want. Maturity means you listen to the outcry and realize they may have a point. IN the end, creators have the control, so we neednt blame anyone but them.

I'm not a hater of ANY of the NYC riders. Yes, I quit watching Evx vids a long time ago, but it doesnt mean I hate or should go out of my way to create problems. Hell, I dont even like leaing thumbs down on vids. I simply dont leave a thumbs up.  I also wont assume the man in person is anything like he/she advertises.  It was simple. I recognized a  mentality I didnt care for. I received a response or two that indicated that my original reaction was valid. I unsubscribed and don't watch the videos. If something bothers you and keeps pulling you into conversations that make you feel badly and act immature, leave the conversation. I havent seen ANY of his vids in months and I'm still not going to do it now. I aint gna be tricked into watching something, once I decided to not add to their play count. Its like choosing to boycott a resturant, but going back to see whats new on the menu. Durr, if you KNOW what ingredients are in the building, why would you think the food has changed? Lets not forget, we are being fed videos and judging on them alone. Some of these creators may SEEM like total asshats, but irl are great people. I like to think that I can 'dislike' someones online persona and yet we could easily get along irl. Judging a book by its cover is sometimes accurate, sometimes not. At the end of the day, I still don't hate or wish ill will on any of our riders. ANYONE making threats to a person over a video, IS a serious problem tho.

Personal attacks on people are NOT okay. Its our duty to be civilized as much we can, even if we are unhappy. This holds especially true, when ALL you know of someone, is from videos you've seen.  Sharing opinions and disllike is fine and dandy, but can't we act like people with a little decency? Threats of violence, are also illegal and immoral. Sadly, I am becoming more disappointed in the reaction to videos than the videos themselves. The longer I live and the more I look around, the less I want to be in public, I'll tell you that much.

This thread is like the herpes of euc.

Edited June 18, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[NickNonsense]

Is there any validation to these claims of threats, death threats at that. As a community I would believe we wouldn't tolerate that behaviour the same as the majority of us condomn behaviours in the alleycat video. 

[Treatz]

1 hour ago, Sumako said:

showed me how intolerant and vicious this online dynamic can be

 

1 hour ago, Sumako said:

Let’s start with the group consciousness’s inability to look at said creator’s body of work and realize the crazy video was more of a one off or creative endeavor. 

That guy can have the freedom to express himself in videos but we aren't allowed to comment on it? We can only appreciate someone's work and not criticize it?

But it's everyone else who's intolerant, and not you.  Yeah, right.

[.....]

1 hour ago, Sumako said:

Let’s start with the group consciousness’s inability to look at said creator’s body of work and realize the crazy video was more of a one off or creative endeavor. This group failed to remember that he was a favorite because of his high quality work and conscious responsible narrative when it came to riding. Instead, this group went for the throat; calling this guy toxic or harmful to the community...over one stupid video. 

But yeah no one is really responsible for any one else’s feelings. 

One off? Yeah right. Maybe the act itself was new, but it sounds like the flavor everyone is bitching about is THE FLAVOR we are used to seeing. Don't assume you know what people like about the vids. I liked the polish and efforts in the vids, but quickly realized I was not a fan of a lot of the overall work included within'. 'Responsible narrative' ? Are we talking about the same person here?

I feel like I've taken the bait once again. Having read your previous postings, I will now brace myself for what may be heading my way....

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[OldFartRides]

49 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

 I liked the polish and …

 

I like the Polish AND the Czech vids.

[Sumako]

2 hours ago, shellac said:

 

OK, I was hoping this topic would die off but this evx mourning is nonsense. First of all, the man wants clicks and is serving this video so he can have a dramatic comeback and increase his audience. Come on, he considers himself an “artist” and he’s simply not leaving like that.

In terms of top content creators I would put hsiang, wrong way, and kuji in that category. Evx had good production values in his videos—in fact too good because at some point overly slick production makes the video feel inauthentic and corporate.

As an EUC fan myself who watches a lot of yt I would tolerate his 1990s MTVesque theme music and backwards baseball cap faux badassery, and enjoyed some of his works, but the alleycat race video he posted showed either at best poor judgement and at worst a very cynical attempt to create controversy for clicks. I’m thinking maybe it’s the latter. 

Now comes the bemoaning the so called “cancel culture”. Of course cancel culture isn’t really a thing. Complaining about it reflects a desire for some people to be able to do whatever they want, no matter how irresponsible and defiant of common sense, and not have any consequences. 

Sigh.....

If you only took a moment to know these people. Everything you said is a subjective opinion based on your perception and expectation of this real human being. 

Yes, I know the dude. In fact a know few of these “personalities”. 

I am so happy he posted what he did. He took responsibility for his shit. If you don’t see that nor wish to see that in the video; that’s cool. But “com’on maaaan” let’s admit, you made up a complete story line. 

Oh well....

[Sumako]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

One off? Yeah right. Maybe the act itself was new, but it sounds like the flavor everyone is bitching about is THE FLAVOR we are used to seeing. Don't assume you know what people like about the vids. I liked the polish and efforts in the vids, but quickly realized I was not a fan of a lot of the overall work included within'. 'Responsible narrative' ? Are we talking about the same person here?

I feel like I've taken the bait once again. Having read your previous postings, I will now brace myself for what may be heading my way....

 

Here’s what’s coming your way: post 3 videos from the evX channel that demonstrates the EXACT level of risk you felt was displayed in the ally cat race. “I’ll wait”.

[mrelwood]

Evx calls himself an artist, and seems to consider the criticism to have been targeted at his art. Then he makes a video that is so blatantly fueled by self pity that it seems as he was trying to make the viewers feel bad for him and ask for him to continue and pat him on the back about his past career. I’m in doubt about the death threats towards his family, which he repeatedly brings up whenever he is being criticized. They’re nothing to joke about, as they are in itself a crime, and no-one should of course wish such things on anyone.

 At least this “Icaros” video was one where many traditional movie tricks on trying to control the viewer’s feelings and opinions were not hidden in any way. Playing past footage backwards while playing a miserable love song. I feel alienated from that kind of overly “American” film style, but that’s all fine in art. I’m fine with simply skipping such flick and moving on to whatever Netflix recommends next.

 But the criticism was never directed at Evx’s art. Someone did bring up how the race could’ve been betrayed as more action packed than it really was. Sure, that’s what video editing is. But the criticism was never about the level of action, or how video editing possibly concentrated more on certain individual events and riders. You can shoot a video of a murder in a way that either downplays or emphasizes the gore. But no matter how you edit the clip, it’s still a freakin’ murder.

From day one the criticism was aimed towards the actions of some of the riders, organizing a race that supports such actions in public, and then sharing all that content in a way that tries to make it look as if it were a proof of skill worth achieving. The actions themselves don’t change one bit no matter if they’re shown in sepia and slowed down to a quarter speed. Or double.

Evx didn’t pull his punches apologizing about the art of his video editing. But he didn’t even touch the aspects that were being criticized, not even with a 6 ft pole. He can play his artist career any way he likes, many of us no longer care one bit. He’ll surely get a good  YouTube commission for the “apology”.

 I’m glad that the original video got pulled. I’m also glad about how Ewheels reacted. I also feel that this debate has been an important one in showing where we stand as a community on the moral guidelines of riding in public. These were all achieved by the criticism and the  debate that’s been going on for 14 pages, and they’re nothing to be sorry or feel bad about.

[Sumako]

1 hour ago, Treatz said:

 

That guy can have the freedom to express himself in videos but we aren't allowed to comment on it? We can only appreciate someone's work and not criticize it?

But it's everyone else who's intolerant, and not you.  Yeah, right.

You have the right to do whatever you want. I never inferred otherwise. Is this line of thinking that a comment one does not agree with a new debate tactic or something? Anyways. All I have asked is; “how does one rip into another person who makes ONE risky mistake  with out considering that this was ONLY one risky move?” It is just weird to me. 

[Skeptikos]

People keep saying they were "criticizing" Mick. There is some of that in this thread but mostly it's not true. Instead of criticism we're seeing a mob being stirred up, and people lashing out (at Mick, his sponsors, NYC riders) with the intent of making their lives miserable.

Let's drop the silly euphemism "criticism" for this behavior. Starting a pile-on of harassment to get someone to take down a video is not criticism. If you're going to be a gigantic turd waffle on the internet in an attempt to enforce traffic norms, own it. Maybe you can find a logic to justify that, but don't ask us to pretend you're a morally superior "considerate" person afterward. You're just a jerk with a different excuse.

My kind of stupidly obvious recommendation is that people should extend the same consideration to their fellow EUC riders as they do to pedestrians. Yes, even if that rider makes a mistake and doesn't apologize as obsequiously as you would prefer. Consideration still applies when you step off the street.

[Treatz]

22 minutes ago, Skeptikos said:

People keep saying they were "criticizing" Mick. There is some of that in this thread but mostly it's not true. Instead of criticism we're seeing a mob being stirred up, and people lashing out (at Mick, his sponsors, NYC riders) with the intent of making their lives miserable.

Let's drop the silly euphemism "criticism" 

Skeptikos, provide a single example of this behavior you blankatly accuse everyone of. There are 13 pages of content for you to work with. Back up your claims or stop making them. What is a specific example of what you consider as beyond criticism. If you can’t provide a legit example, please rescind your comment.

 

 

[mrelwood]

 

37 minutes ago, Skeptikos said:

Instead of criticism we're seeing a mob being stirred up, and people lashing out (at Mick, his sponsors, NYC riders) with the intent of making their lives miserable.

Like @Treatz, I have no idea where you’re getting this. There has been none of those in this thread. Maybe you mistake this thread with comments in YouTube? Don’t know, I haven’t read them.

37 minutes ago, Skeptikos said:

don't ask us to pretend you're a morally superior "considerate" person afterward.

No-one has claimed anyone to be superior, except maybe some people who mention how much skill it takes to ride fast in NYC. No-one has claimed any opinion to be better than the other.

37 minutes ago, Skeptikos said:

You're just a jerk with a different excuse.

I’m pretty sure that exactly that attitude is one of the reasons the thread has been going on for so long. This is a discussion, a debate. Calling people of the opposite opinion as “jerk” or a “turd waffle” doesn’t really sound like you’d have anything to say that would support or back up your own opinion.

 And it’s borderline against the rules of this forum. Maybe cool down a bit before typing the next one?

[Skeptikos]

18 minutes ago, Treatz said:

Skeptikos, provide a single example of this behavior you blankatly accuse everyone of. There are 13 pages of content for you to work with. Back up your claims or stop making them. What is a specific example of what you consider as beyond criticism. If you can’t provide a legit example, please rescind your comment.

Sure thing, @Treatz. Here's you making a ton of wild accusations on page 6. I guess you could define this post as criticism, but it's criticism designed to make people angry, as part of an angry mob. I would not label this post of yours as being "considerate".

On 6/15/2021 at 8:03 AM, Treatz said:

The NYC unicycle group doesn't care. It's not my own, made-up fact. It's been demonstrated over and over just from watching the forums, their own video content and reading online.

- They will threaten people and fight them to preserve their entitlement.  

- Don't ask them to ride courteously when pedestrians are about.  They'll act as though you violated their sacred sovereignty.

- Don't ask them not to swarm cars, creating immense sense of threat. It's their constitutional right, somehow. 

They act, in many ways, as a gang. How many people have disagreed with them on youtube or other online places to get threatened "I dare you to come out here to NY and say that to our faces."  OUR?  Don't expect to be dealing with an individual. They will call for backup. I've experienced it online. I dared to challenge one person's opinion and then I get several people "piling on" me with mean-spirited, threatening comments out of nowhere. 

More troubling than that, celebrating recklessness seems built into the NYC unicycle culture. I watched a video of one of the gang's apparently most prominent members overpowering a sherman to deliberately crash it. As he limped away, head lolling to the side and bloody like a deer that just got clipped on the highway, the other riders were CHEERING him. He was a hero to them. How is asking them to be considerate going to succeed when dealing with this type of mentality?

Debating with them doesn't work. Look how this thread has spiraled in all kinds of directions--someone even saying "well, we watch movies of people killing each other and that's okay, so why aren't these races?"  Because those are movies and these people are hurling down the streets with minimal regard for their own safety, without any thought of people just going about their day. They have this really important race to win, after all.

You won't get anywhere with logic because it's much more about status in "the gang."  This guy starting the races....what's in it for him?  He gets to be a big shot.  It's about ambition, not community. If he can put on a race that the most aggressive of the NYC "gang" enjoys, then his status goes up. If people on the forum complain, then he'll gain even more points for "owning those wimps" on the forum. He's sticking up for his "gang" and loyalty gets rewarded in gangs.

Reasoning doesn't work, as we've seen. The more you challenge them, the more they circles the wagons.

This is their legacy...over and over...proven and done. They think "it's us against the world" and they will play the role of victims, even as they make others feel fearful for their safety. They don't think they're doing it--self entitled people never do. They won't say "okay, maybe we do take it a little too far sometimes."  Nope. Instead it's: "you couldn't handle living in NY so you have no voice at all."  Someone must be forcing to live there? Forcing them to ride EUC's recklessly?

Distraction. Distraction. Distraction.  It's about basic human consideration and nothing else.

Nothing else.

Tell me any product that doesn't get regulated--much less one that shoots a human like a torpedo down the busted streets of this nation's most densely populated city. Everyone concerned about regulation absolutely should be.

Asking them to ride reasonably, no matter if logic and manners are employed, is just not an option. Quit making this about anything other than what it is: basic human consideration and the WILLFUL lack of it. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Skeptikos

[Mark13i]

1 hour ago, Skeptikos said:

Sure thing, @Treatz. Here's you making a ton of wild accusations on page 6. I guess you could define this post as criticism, but it's criticism designed to make people angry, as part of an angry mob. I would not label this post of yours as being "considerate".

Do you mean the word "gang" used, and a description of the behaviors that define such an organization?

What's wrong?

I can rewrite the definition from the wiki.

We will discuss which parts of the definition do not fit the riders

Edited June 19, 2021 by Mark13i

[Tasku]

We could just change the topic

"Quote wars, flaming and cyberbullying. Is that what this community stands for?"

There seems to be bigger picture out there. That 'one comment we made', somewhere seems insignificant. There is obviously more going on that just 'one comment' that you/some of us are now defending to the end. Why else are we quoting typo or some badly writen opinions anyway? As if the last one making quote is the winner? We have  been told what has been going on, multiple perspectives of it. We/Some of us part took in many ways, (just example) and just gonna combine some things that were said about all over the place: 

"I do not believe Mick(EvX) was bullied, I rather choose to believe headlines that were made up."

Micks videos were stories, and I can see people painting pictures of their own from them. I feel shame that my output was hateful, instead of creative like EvX was. The people who sell these devices could show their numbers, new people took up the challenge and learned a new skill. How many learned how to ride watching his videos? You do not have to love him or be his fan, but he made impact. And I can see that. We the community should change. Hating the player is not solution what I draw from this. 

Few words more about creativity and countless hours of work he put into these videos.
It was easy to make content of something that he loved. Like some said his production values clearly showed that he put effort to make content that had emotion, stories and it resonated through this community. Loved or hated, you know the man. Best he got from this community was the people he hang out with. I could say the same, best I had is some of the people in here. But what do I know. And just to point out, our opinions tend to be black and white, yet you ride the grey everyday. Does your country have laws that allow the use? Do you get insurance for your device?
Just looks like 'this devil' we speak of does not get enough air to talk right now. He takes time and no wonder. Like many would have ended making content eventually, as something you love is not always something you want to do as your work. Work can kill the fun out of hobby, and such is the end of this story, or so we are given reason to understand. 

Maybe I should start appearing on events where I give monologues for the deceased. 

Jokes aside, gonna go for ride instead. Hopefully this topic gave you more to think of, than just the thoughts you came in here with. I would like to thank everyone who has made any content out there. Maybe you showcased how to change tire. Maybe you made 'learn to ride' video. Maybe you got bragging rights to podcast or some blog? Mad respect to anyone out there making content of EUC or personal electric vehicles.