Incredibly bad look for this community.

[Scottie888]

5 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Oh My God….I really wanted to move on from this thread and then this comment appears:  “They’re in it for themselves “  I rarely get pissed off but this one really brought out the worst in me!

A majority of the comments on this topic are from member’s that shared their sincere concerns for pedestrian safety.

Have you ever been involved in advocating for public safety and awareness? 

This is my safety awareness monument, built for parents to reflect on their innocent children lost to mindless accidents caused by strangers. As you can see, I’m not in it for myself! I care!!!

Sorry but I believe your comment was ill conceived and demonstrates a total lack of compassion!

Ahh yes, the outrage is strong. Post a few pics & we care. Cool. I get it.

No I've not been an advocate for public safety nor awareness. Which is why I fully admit I don't know & I don't judge. Live & let live is my motto, for good or bad. You got rights & so does everyone else. C'est La Vie. Yadi yadi yada.

Sad pics to be sure but as I've been reminded, this a EUC forum. So what does it have to do with EUCs? Far's as safety or lack there off, I've put in a few egs which have been shown to be non pertinent & hence, irrelevant here. That's fair & I get it.

I certainly admit its possible I do have lack of compassion. All's I know is I don't go round spouting how righteous & holy I am. I do know I haven't been guilty of intentionally causing deaths or injuries to others, at least not proven in law & if thats not good enough, it'll have to do. But stats show thousands upon thousands die on a daily basis. Is some lives worth more than others? Covid from a certain nation has caused innumerous grief, deaths & economic destruction to millions (if not billions) on earth. Have you called for a boycott of products from said country? Or is it because we are enjoying the products from said nation.

Its easy to preach righteousness & fake outrage. Well for good or bad, no matter if it offends (what that does even mean), I speak it as I see it. And I don't impose it on others. I believe I'm not a hypocrite & I don't tell others what they should or shouldn't do. We, they get to choose their way of life & if any laws are broken, then its a local law enforcement issue. Others from different jurisdictions can have their say but that's about it.

But ya, inspite of it all, I do respect your right to say what you think even if its disagreeable to me. & yes even if I find it offensive (whatever that means) & whatever else.

[Scottie888]

21 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Didn’t make a dent. Your childish mentality wins. 

Sure, I suppose I can easily respond with labels of my own as well but then, that would be childish.

If you want a discussion, how bout focusing on the arguments. Imperfect as I am, I'm very open to being wrong so go for it. I just refuse to be a hypocrite as all.

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

All's I know is I don't go round spouting how righteous & holy I am.

Do you really see concern for other people as “sprouting how righteous” someone is themselves? That is very far fetched. Except for the NYC riders themselves, no-one in this thread has lifted themselves on a pedestal for being better in anything. 

 

5 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

But stats show thousands upon thousands die on a daily basis. Is some lives worth more than others? Covid from a certain nation has caused innumerous grief, deaths & economic destruction to millions (if not billions) on earth. Have you called for a boycott of products from said country?

So criticism is only justified if one also criticizes every single thing that’s wrong in the world, in a correct proportion? Wouldn’t that then have to apply to nice things as well? So one isn’t allowed to make a nice review on any single EUC without making one for every other EUC as well.

And shouldn’t it apply to your response as well? Have you tried to shoot down all other worry warts in all other discussion forums as well? You know, there are lots of wrong opinions around, what have you done about them? If nothing, wouldn’t it then make you a hypocrite after all for only commenting on a subject that matters to you personally?

[mike_bike_kite]

9 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

Errr actually I do cos it fun watching them NYC boyz vids. Its exciting & on the edge.

There's nothing wrong with having a little excitement. What is unacceptable is causing danger to others like the mother and child on the pedestrian crossing. What is really stupid is then filming it for fun and posting it on Youtube. The problem with young impressionable riders (I may of called them imbeciles above) is that they then copy this style of riding because they think it's "cool". 

[Rawnei]

It's a bit ironic how there are people who don't give a shit and at the same time adamantly defend this sort of behavior, the only arguments for this sort of thing seem to be that "it's fun" and "nobody got hurt" (this time) with no consideration to other people involved or arguments presented against it.

I admire your energy @mrelwood Et al. for bringing well thought arguments to the discussion, it's refreshing to read between the emotionally charged posts and even if it might not change the mentality that some have it brings to light important things to be said.

This issue is not as polarized as some make it out to be, just because there are a lot of people reacting to this in a negative way doesn't mean the same people ride slow all the time or are perfect in anyway just that there are those of us that try to apply better judgement in consideration of other people that share the spaces we ride in.

I can't imagine what it must feel like for the people involved when a serious accident actually does happen, I wonder how whoever hit and killed that lady is feeling right now, probably not very good.

[bcarp]

This is probably not the sort of press we want generated:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9693435/Electric-scooters-e-bikes-run-red-lights-NYC-Gone-Girl-actress-dies.html

[Planemo]

58 minutes ago, bcarp said:

This is probably not the sort of press we want generated:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9693435/Electric-scooters-e-bikes-run-red-lights-NYC-Gone-Girl-actress-dies.html

Oh FFS. Just what we need, and in a popular paper as well.

Theres no way on earth that the politicians/lawmakers won't see this.

[winterwheel]

https://www.businessinsider.com/wikipedia-has-banned-the-daily-mail-as-an-unreliable-source-2017-2

[Camenbert]

50 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Oh FFS. Just what we need, and in a popular paper as well.

Theres no way on earth that the politicians/lawmakers won't see this.

Yeah man, hurry up selling all your EUCs before world-wild ban.

[bcarp]

21 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/wikipedia-has-banned-the-daily-mail-as-an-unreliable-source-2017-2

Maybe unreliable for facts, but a popular newspaper nonetheless. Unfortunately, the people who read the Daily Mail aren't going to be the sort of people who fact check the newspaper or read the Business Insider articles.

[Planemo]

4 minutes ago, bcarp said:

Maybe unreliable for facts, but a popular newspaper nonetheless. Unfortunately, the people who read the Daily Mail aren't going to be the sort of people who fact check the newspaper or read the Business Insider articles.

It's irrelevant anyway isn't it? The collision and death is a fact no?

25 minutes ago, Camenbert said:

Yeah man, hurry up selling all your EUCs before world-wild ban.

Glad you find it comical.

[Camenbert]

About this tragic event, what is comical is to confuse escooter/scooter/motorcycle with a EUC and believe politicians/lawmakers won't neither see the difference.

In France EUCs are in the law, it's legal and there is no way a ban can happen now (they can invent many boring stuff instead).
France is also the first market about EUC in Europe. And that was before legalization.
This might explain that...

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Camenbert

[bcarp]

3 minutes ago, Camenbert said:

About this tragic event, what is comical is to confuse escooter/scooter/motorcycle with a EUC and believe politicians/lawmakers won't neither see the difference.

 

But they won't.

In Australia, stand-up eScooters, EUC, Segways, Onewheels, eSkateboards & similar devices are lumped together under the "personal mobility devices" category, and are illegal in most states.

Ebikes are another class & are legal up to a certain power & speed boost.

Sit-down scooters fall into the motorcycle category & are subject to the same safety standards as motorcycles.

[Planemo]

4 minutes ago, Camenbert said:

In France EUCs are in the law, it's legal and there is no way a ban can happen now

1. I'm not in France.

2. EUC's are very much seen in the same boat as e-scooters over here.

3. I am confident that politicians and lawmakers will see zero difference between an EUC and an e-scooter. If they do, they will see an EUC as worse because theres no mechanical brakes. Plus they only have 1 wheel. And they need more than 250w to be safe.

4. No electrically powered vehicle is legal over here (except hired e-scooters). So it's not like we already have free use with which to get banned.

 

[Gasmantle]

Quote

 

Here in the UK I initially thought the trial period of allowing electric scooters on the road was a good thing and would hopefully lead to legalisation in some shape. Now after a few months I think it's the worst thing that could have happened to EUC riders, scooters are now relatively common and so attract the attention of the police and those against legalisation.

When scooters / EUC's were rare we could slip under the radar but sadly those days are over.

I partly blame poor marketing by the wheel manufacturers and retailers, what should have been a simple, cheap, environmentally friendly transport solution has now become largely an enthusiast 'sport' with riders wanting evermore powerful heavy wheels. We have missed the opportunity to legalise EUC's - no government is going to legalise a 2500W machine weighing 25+ kg and capable of 40mph.

 

[Camenbert]

1 minute ago, bcarp said:

In Australia, stand-up eScooters, EUC, Segways, Onewheels, eSkateboards & similar devices are lumped together under the "personal mobility devices" category, and are illegal in most states.

 

1 minute ago, Planemo said:

4. No electrically powered vehicle is legal over here (except hired e-scooters). So it's not like we already have free use with which to get banned.

Do you have in Australia & UK some problems with hooliganism on PEV to explain this ?
Or as discussed some pages ago, hired e-scooters companies are already infuencers (if not paying $$$ licenses to operate) ???

 

[Planemo]

3 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

Here in the UK I initially thought the trial period of allowing electric scooters on the road was a good thing and would hopefully lead to legalisation in some shape.

I always thought it was a bad idea. The idiots hiring them have ruined it, not to mention them being left everywhere which pisses the Karens off no end. That said, were we ever going to go forward any other way? I doubt it. The UK was never going to wake up one morning and say 'lets legalise all PEV's!'. Its just not the British way unfortunately.

3 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

 no government is going to legalise a 2500W machine weighing 25+ kg and capable of 40mph.

I agree 100% with that, apart from the weight issue given that my fully legal ebike is all of 25kg if not more. But yeah, 40mph...and no brakes...yeah. The best we can hope for is a simple blanket speed restriction. We all know that most EUC's can and will go over it but I can live with that.

[Planemo]

14 minutes ago, Camenbert said:

Do you have in Australia & UK some problems with hooliganism on PEV to explain this ?

Nope, not at all. In fact, PEV use was minimal and not in the public eye at all up until about a year ago when the hired stuff came along.

14 minutes ago, Camenbert said:

Or as discussed some pages ago, hired e-scooters companies are already infuencers (if not paying $$$ licenses to operate) ???

Maybe....I honestly don't think it would be a HUGE sum though. I believe the main problems to be nothing more than an unfortunately archaic road traffic law (which catches PEV's unbelievably, long before they were even a glimmer in the eye of an inventor) along with a community that don't embrace change and/or new tech. To be fair we also don't have a decent infrastructure - many of our roads have a single lane for each direction, and on top of that many aren't wide enough to pass a cyclist/pev without pulling out into the other lane. So again that annoys car drivers.

[winterwheel]

We need to get the cards on the table; wheels are what they are and governments are going to do what they're going to do. I'm not at all interested in hiding our capabilities and praying that no one notices us.

[Planemo]

1 minute ago, winterwheel said:

We need to get the cards on the table; wheels are what they are and governments are going to do what they're going to do. I'm not at all interested in hiding our capabilities and praying that no one notices us.

I'm not hiding either. The issue is riding like a twat before we are even legal.

[LanghamP]

2 hours ago, bcarp said:

This is probably not the sort of press we want generated:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9693435/Electric-scooters-e-bikes-run-red-lights-NYC-Gone-Girl-actress-dies.html

This very particular situation of bicyclists (and other 1 and 2 wheeled vehicles) has been repeatedly commented on by urban traffic engineers in StreetBlog USA, and StreetBlog SF, and StreetBlog NYC.

And my personal experience is that I find riding the wrong way down a 1 way street and use sidewalks practically irresistible if I'm in downtown St Louis.

Why? Because 1 way streets will force you to drive at least two blocks away, and often much more, just to get to a place that's half a block away if you break the law. Four intersections, often more, or I can just ride my bike the wrong way or on the sidewalk for a half block, gosh, I wonder which I'll choose?

It's notable that all the pictures show delivery riders going the wrong way. Of course its delivery riders.

It's quite ridiculous we placed 1 way streets in most downtowns just to cater to car driver's urge to get somewhere faster. Turn the streets back to 2 ways and the problem fixes itself.

As for running red lights, that's an easy fix. Just remove all red lights and put a short curb in the middle of each intersection. People can bump each other but the lower speeds results in bruises instead of deaths.

[bcarp]

24 minutes ago, Camenbert said:

 

Do you have in Australia & UK some problems with hooliganism on PEV to explain this ?
Or as discussed some pages ago, hired e-scooters companies are already infuencers (if not paying $$$ licenses to operate) ???

 

Probably the same as the UK. Just old laws that banned them from the time that they were petrol-powered & noisy. Laws haven't kept up with the changes in technology & they are being considered now. Fines of up to AUD$3000 if they decide to book you in NSW.

[Gasmantle]

4 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

And my personal experience is that I find riding the wrong way down a 1 way street and use sidewalks practically irresistible if I'm in downtown St Louis.

Why? Because 1 way streets will force you to drive at least two blocks away, and often much more, just to get to a place that's half a block away if you break the law. Four intersections, often more, or I can just ride my bike the wrong way or on the sidewalk for a half block, gosh, I wonder which I'll choose?

Well it's idiots with that mentality that are the problem.

 

[Camenbert]

44 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

We have missed the opportunity to legalise EUC's - no government is going to legalise a 2500W machine weighing 25+ kg and capable of 40mph.

23 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I agree 100% with that, apart from the weight issue given that my fully legal ebike is all of 25kg if not more. But yeah, 40mph...and no brakes...yeah.

But France, Belgium, and few other for sure, have made EUC legal (as all PEV with one law)
EUC use the power to keep you upright, there is NO power limitation.
Yes there is a speed limit for these devices (25 kph), what is OK for maybe 2/3 of the riders, politicians/lawmakers had to find something to say, isn't!

Why not translate, or print and send a copy of these to your politicians/lawmakers ?
Often politicians just hear who yell the most, isn't.

https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/A4 recto-verso V4 0110.pdf

[Chriull]

24 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

idiots

Please no personal insults - as all know this is one of the few forum rules.

Although it's an emotional topic we made 11 pages without need for intervention!