Sherman initial (surprising) observations from an MSX fanboy..

[Planemo]

I've done a few rides on the Shermie now, I think around 150 miles.

Startlingly, for me, theres not much to say regarding comparing them really!

I really thought it would ride a fair bit different to my 1860wh MSX and it doesn't, which is perfect. I honestly thought the Sherman would feel bulky, cumbersome, heavy, lethargic, all those other words to describe something which, on paper, should be significant when comparing it to an MSX. The blocky, aggressive tyre, the weight of an additional 1340wh (1244wh in reality), the wider case and general bulkier build (roll bar/lights etc).

But it doesn't.

For sure, it's not quite as nimble but it's marginal and you could argue that as a result it's even more stable than the MSX when underway. I imagined that cornering/carving with the 'off road' tyre would be a right pita but it's not. I'm not quite sure how Veteran have done it to be honest. I was very close to fitting a road tyre before I had even ridden it but I'm really not sure now, the knobby works so well. Plus, a reduction in profile height and potential comfort reduction (along with arguably more risk to the rim) is sorta keeping me away from swapping it out. It's not even nearly as loud as I thought it would be, to the point where it's a non issue. That said I run low pressure (23~25psi) so maybe it's higher pressures which increase the noise, I dunno, I thought it would be the other way round.

In short, the Sherman has done exactly what I wanted - virtually the same 'feel' as an MSX but with the additional range. Oh and the trolley handle is better, the lights are better, the LCD display is handy oh and did I mention that range

The only thing I do miss a little is the carry handle of the MSX, and the fact that a roadside puncture repair on the Sherman would be a LOT harder (impractical really) than the MSX, but I'm hoping the knobby is considerably more puncture resistant than an H5102, if only for the massive increase in tread depth.

Overall, I am so happy with it I am a bit lost for words.

 

[fbhb]

4 hours ago, Planemo said:

Overall, I am so happy with it I am a bit lost for words.

Really happy to hear you are so taken with the Sherman in pretty much every respect and I fully understand your sentiments.  As you know, I have had more than one owners worth of drama with mine, but I still really love the wheel and the way it performs. 

I do have a Michelin City Grip Pro 80/90-14 lined up as an option once the knobby wears out, but have been enjoying the knobby for all the same reasons you describe above.

Anyway, here's to many more long range Sherman rides for us both in the months ahead and I'm sure your enjoyment will still grow from here, if that's at all possible!

Edited June 9, 2021 by fbhb

[Dominic Winsor]

On 6/9/2021 at 7:25 AM, Planemo said:

I've done a few rides on the Shermie now, I think around 150 miles.

 

It gets better and better with time. I'm over 700 mi into mine and it still surprises me with how good it is.

[Kekafuch]

Just under 2 months owning this agile beast. Its at 1300km. I really like it alot and was really hoping it would be a wheel I can still cheat on sidewalks with. Go slow on. I found it can do the slow stuff and the street cruising and the gravel trails. Yup, lifting it into the car is somewhat cumbersome but manageable with some planning and practice.
 

 

[DWOTR]

I ordered a RS at the start of this season. Being as I'm waiting on a board, I ordered a Sherman- today was the first day with it. I'm a little heavier- so I can feel the difference in torque (I would trust the RS to pull me up almost any hill- the Sherman I might not.) That is not to say that the Sherman is "gutless", I don't think there is a hill on a regular street I would hesitate on. It just is not really an "offroad" wheel for me.

 

That is probably fine given the weight of the wheel. I will say that I can feel it when lifting it up the stairs. And you feel it riding- but not in a bad way. More that it is a very, very "solid" feeling wheel. It just sort of rolls over bumps... or curbs. Or probably people who may stand in your way. Also- where my calves were scraped raw the first day on the RS- there is almost no problem with the Sherman. I can't explain it- but the feeling of the wheel is much "skinnier" than the the RS.

 

I would say at speed, this wheel has a more stable feel than the RS. I suppose the weight gives it a feel of momentum. The RS has a nice feel carving- but this blows it out of the water. It just begs to carve.

 

To wrap it up- I'm glad I have the RS (once the board arrives) for offroad. And I'm beyond thrilled to have the Sherman for on road trips. I find their personalities to be very different and what I would strongly prefer to use them for very different.

 

I'm not doubting what @Planemo is saying about his experience as wheels seem to be very personalized and how people experience them very different. I went riding with a member on a Mten3 who was straight up offroading on trails (and keeping up to S-18's and the RS.) I took my Mten3 across the grass, fell in a small pothole and wiped out (of course, I weigh just a little more than him.) It does not mean that the Mten3 is not capable of going offroad- only that it is not ideal for the man who is over 200. The point is that while I experienced these wheels very differently, I'm not doubting his conclusion that he found them similar.

 

I find they are almost night and day. Both excellent wheels- both capable, both amazing technology. But very different in their personalities and what I would be comfortable using them for.*

 

*Well- that is not completely true. I would not hesitate to continue to use the RS on road and off. I believe it is comfortable anywhere with a man my size on it.

[Planemo]

Interesting to hear another viewpoint comparing the two 

For me though, I still don't think the Sherman carves as well as the MSX but that could be down to just tyre pressures (I ran 25 on the MSX and 23 on the Sherman) and tbh I still haven't put many miles on the Sherman so without doubt I am still a bit more tentative on it than I was on the MSX, which I felt VERY comfortable pushing hard after the mileage I had done. It may be that the Sherman needs more pressure to get the same carve feel as the MSX, but I am reluctant to add more as I believe the Sherman tyre is stiffer and I don't want to lose compliance. At the moment, both seem about the same ride in terms of comfort with the pressures I use.

I also feel that the Sherman needs more effort to get high speeds. The MSX kinda just wanted to go, the Sherman feels like it needs more lean (I always run level pedals). But this is nitpicking, I still think they are pretty close. I certainly wouldn't take my own views as gospel anyway, not until I have put more miles on it and thrown it around a bit.

I may try hard mode too, been in medium so far (same as I ran on my MSX).

[DWOTR]

Oh, I don't claim to be the expert voice either. I think I had just under 1000 Km on the RS, and yesterday was the first day "getting acquainted" with the Sherman. As your thread title says- it is just initial impressions right now. I don't discount the possibility of doing a complete 180 and reversing my conclusions as I get to know the wheel better (and once the other is up for direct comparisons...)

[WILSONEUC]

Here are my observations with the Sherman: I have owned this since January 21st, clocked in only 295 Miles.

First off, the Sherman is stable but i feel it could be more stable if the offroad tire was seated and positioned true. Ive attempted reseating the tire 3-4 times and it always looks off center and not truly seated within the middle of the shell/motor. When riding, there is sway to the tire. Now i can ride this out fine but still I dont like riding something that does not run true and it bothers me.

As other have pointed out, it is not super agile, but you can get use to how nimble it can be by putting more effort with your body into the carves and agility exercises. 

I havent quite mastered this wheel 100 percent and need more time to ride, but at the end of the day i just cant help to say something is off with this wheel and the seating of the tire i believe is the issue.

[WILSONEUC]

On 6/16/2021 at 5:41 AM, Planemo said:

 

I also feel that the Sherman needs more effort to get high speeds. The MSX kinda just wanted to go, the Sherman feels like it needs more lean 

 

This I can agree with. Lately my riding has been trying to gain speed but always have to stop due to shitty roads in my area forcing me slow down a bit. It does take some effort and more pressing down on the wheel to get it to giddy up. In comparison, the RS19 HS was great for the purpose of effortless speed gains.  I find it works well for me to be completely straight and leaned forward on flat roads. On bumpy roads i crouch down and lean over the front of the wheel a bit putting all my weight on the balls of my feet.