Stopped by police today.....

[Frode]

I think EUCs should be announced as environmentally friendly zero emission vehicles that is easy to combine with public transport (which is of course also very true!) This will put everybody that argues for their use in a favorable light, and those who want to ban them in an unfavorable light.

[Jurgen]

7 hours ago, johrhoj said:

New information for the Dutch EUC riders.

A few weeks ago, i was stopped by the police. The policeman claimed that my vehicle was not allowed on public road. I said I knew better and we had a brief discussion. It was a nice policeman, and he promised to send me the information that would prove he was right. We exchanged e-mail addresses.

In his first e-mail, he quoted the law to me, but he did it badly. I convinced him that his interpretation was wrong and included previous communication I had with government related organizations.

In his second e-mail, he quoted another government source, and the information there was to the point. It indicated that the EUC was allowed on the public roads, but that an insurance was mandatory.

From that moment on, I had a problem. There are two sources, that define the EUC differently. First source said that the EUC is not a vehicle. The second source said that the EUC is a motorrized vehicle without a vehicle classification. 

So, next, I decided to go up a level, and started a communication with two Dutch ministries. This resulted in an official interpretation (now shared by both governmental organizationa), that is in line with the second source. Conclusion:

In the Netherlands, an EUC is considedered to be a motorrized vehicle. The law does not provide regulations for the vehicle category. Therefore it is allowed on the public road, you do not need a driver licence of any kind, or be a certain age. However, the vehicle needs to be insured.

The problem now is that i cannot find an insurance company that will insure my motorrized vehicle, even after I explain that the law gives them the right to do so. They just does not have the right "insurance product". I will go and try to help them develop an "insurance product" for the EUC. If I succeed, I will let you know. If anyone else allready succeeded, please let me know. 

 The downside of this really is: probably no one in the Netherlands has insured their EUC yet. We EUC riders are all risking a fine for riding without insurance. 

 

In Belgium the socalled 'family insurance' (or "burgerlijke aansprakelijkheid 'familiale" in Dutch), that covers incidents/accidents in general with your kids, dog, etc if  they damage to property or injury of a third person, covers also accidents by vehicles  that are not considered motorised vehicles ("voorbewegingstoestellen" in Dutch) like electric wheelchairs. If i remember correctly the max cruising speed that applies in that case is 18Km/h, above that you'll need an other insurance,and above 25Km/h you'll also need a license plate.

So I would check how motorised wheelchairs, 3-wheeler for elderly, etc. are insured, probably you'll fit in somewhere if you don't cruise to fast :).

 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Some insurance companies have an umbrella policy that you can buy to cover any incidents not covered by regular insurance.  I don't know if it would cover accidents or injuries while riding a EUC, but it might be something to inquire about.

[The Fat Unicyclist]

In New Zealand, the insurance companies are working to include it as a named item within a "contents policy." With the increasing costs of personal vehicles (mainly bicycles) there is a demand for this - for theft and liability.

Once I am back home (and on my wheel again) I will be working through this for myself...

[swvision]

Turn the other cheek? Just kidding...

I was looking up regulations in California and it looks like I can get a special license to ride one, like a license plate. Link look at the part where it says that the bike needs to be 1000W or lower. After you pay $18US they don't need anything else. I think as long as you pay the government legally they wont have problems with you riding around in a EU. 

If you dont have a law in your state or country, you could send a letter to your elected official asking them to come up or make a law. As long as they get paid, like I said, they'll be fine with it. 

[Shoe73]

3 hours ago, swvision said:

I was looking up regulations in California and it looks like I can get a special license to ride one, like a license plate. Link look at the part where it says that the bike needs to be 1000W or lower. After you pay $18US they don't need anything else. I think as long as you pay the government legally they wont have problems with you riding around in a EU. 

I don't see any definition that could apply to an electric unicycle on that page. They have really specific definitions and none for a vehicle with only one wheel. 

[swvision]

3 minutes ago, Shoe73 said:

I don't see any definition that could apply to an electric unicycle on that page. They have really specific definitions and none for a vehicle with only one wheel. 

Do you think we can apply to an M1 or M2 motorcycle license? Some unicycles can actually go as fast as a motorcycle for a few seconds, but still it might quailfy.

 

[animan]

3 hours ago, swvision said:

Turn the other cheek? Just kidding...

I was looking up regulations in California and it looks like I can get a special license to ride one, like a license plate. Link look at the part where it says that the bike needs to be 1000W or lower. After you pay $18US they don't need anything else. I think as long as you pay the government legally they wont have problems with you riding around in a EU. 

If you dont have a law in your state or country, you could send a letter to your elected official asking them to come up or make a law. As long as they get paid, like I said, they'll be fine with it. 

Couldn't find it in the link either.

I believe the following law was passed end of last year in California that might apply to EUCs.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB604

I have it printed out and carry it with me while riding the EUC.

[swvision]

3 minutes ago, animan said:

Couldn't find it in the link either.

I believe the following law was passed end of last year in California that might apply to EUCs.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB604

I have it printed out and carry it with me while riding the EUC.

Wow animan! Thanks man! i was looking for something like that. The cops in Los Angeles can be real Dbags. Some of them...

[animan]

5 minutes ago, swvision said:

Wow animan! Thanks man! i was looking for something like that. The cops in Los Angeles can be real Dbags. Some of them...

Sure no problem. I believe I got the link from an earlier thread on this forum. Made sure to bookmark it and print it out.

[swvision]

Just did. Thank you.

[Questor]

Thanks for the link to the Bill - AB-604.

Here's what I have found to be the main points of the bill.

It defines "Motorized scooters" and "Electric personal assistive mobility devices" as "Electrically motorized board".

It states that "Electrically motorized boards" are different from Electric Skateboards and they they can be used on driveways, paths, bikeways, any other public bicycle path, sidewalk or trail, and roads under 35 mph. as long as the user is over 16 years old and wears a helmet, and does not exceed 15 mph.

Is that a good summary?

Q~

[Vik's]

23 hours ago, Frode said:

I think EUCs should be announced as environmentally friendly zero emission vehicles that is easy to combine with public transport (which is of course also very true!) This will put everybody that argues for their use in a favorable light, and those who want to ban them in an unfavorable light.

I think that is the main reason why both Segways and EUC's etc. are already fully legal in Norway. Because with all that "green politics"  it would be completely absurd to not allow electric selfbalancing vehicles and the politicians know that 

[animan]

48 minutes ago, Questor said:

Thanks for the link to the Bill - AB-604.

Here's what I have found to be the main points of the bill.

It defines "Motorized scooters" and "Electric personal assistive mobility devices" as "Electrically motorized board".

It states that "Electrically motorized boards" are different from Electric Skateboards and they they can be used on driveways, paths, bikeways, any other public bicycle path, sidewalk or trail, and roads under 35 mph. as long as the user is over 16 years old and wears a helmet, and does not exceed 15 mph.

Is that a good summary?

Q~

That's how I interpreted it as well. However, I believe local laws may override parts of the State bill. 

When I started learning the EUC I went to the Stevens Creek Trail which is walking distance, minutes from my home.  On the 3rd day the Park Ranger stopped me and said it was not allowed since it was a motorized vehicle and explained that the laws were different between cities/counties etc. 

I didn't have information on AB-604 Bill at that time but now I tempted to go back or at least write to the Cupertino legislatures to see if they allow me to ride there.

[Nick_Nitro]

On 5-9-2016 at 9:48 PM, Jurgen said:

In Belgium the socalled 'family insurance' (or "burgerlijke aansprakelijkheid 'familiale" in Dutch), that covers incidents/accidents in general with your kids, dog, etc if  they damage to property or injury of a third person, covers also accidents by vehicles  that are not considered motorised vehicles ("voorbewegingstoestellen" in Dutch) like electric wheelchairs. If i remember correctly the max cruising speed that applies in that case is 18Km/h, above that you'll need an other insurance,and above 25Km/h you'll also need a license plate.

So I would check how motorised wheelchairs, 3-wheeler for elderly, etc. are insured, probably you'll fit in somewhere if you don't cruise to fast :).

 

@Jurgen I don't think this is correct. In Belgium we are still classified under "voorbewegingstoestellen" and we have the 18KMPH speed limit for the moment. We need to have a separate Insurance for these vehicles(Not that i have one for my ninebot). The socalled 'family insurance' does not cover this for the moment.

 

Sources (Dutch): http://www.lokalepolitie.be/centrex/nl/archief/archief/voortbewegingstoestellen-eenwielers.html

                           http://www.verzekeringen.be/gemotoriseerd-voortbewegingstoestel-verplichte-motorrijtuigverzekering

 

[Jurgen]

16 hours ago, Nick_Nitro said:

@Jurgen I don't think this is correct. In Belgium we are still classified under "voorbewegingstoestellen" and we have the 18KMPH speed limit for the moment. We need to have a separate Insurance for these vehicles(Not that i have one for my ninebot). The socalled 'family insurance' does not cover this for the moment.

 

Sources (Dutch): http://www.lokalepolitie.be/centrex/nl/archief/archief/voortbewegingstoestellen-eenwielers.html

                           http://www.verzekeringen.be/gemotoriseerd-voortbewegingstoestel-verplichte-motorrijtuigverzekering

 

Actually the links that you've added, confirm what I posted.

You have to read all the details of the regulaiton: above 25Km/h it's consider to be in the category of 'motorised' vehicles that need a specific insurance.

I've double checked with my insurance agent, the socalled 'family insurance' covers accidents with devices that have a max topspeed up to 25Km/h.

[Shady Tools]

I wasn't sure which thread this should go in but my friend just tagged me in this article. My EUC is now broken so I no longer ride but I thought I would give you all a heads up. 

 

Bad news from Wales:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/man-ended-up-six-points-12031624

[Vik's]

9 minutes ago, Shady Tools said:

I wasn't sure which thread this should go in but my friend just tagged me in this article. My EUC is now broken so I no longer ride but I thought I would give you all a heads up. 

 

Bad news from Wales:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/man-ended-up-six-points-12031624

Even though he was doing something that is not allowed (because of slow working, narrow-minded and uneffective bureaucracy) I don't think the punishement is fair. It seems  ridiculously over the top! Сonfiscation and destruction (on top of both fine and points!) of the wheel is just scandalous.

Sad to see those hypocrite governments saying "go green and save the planet" and then punish those who actually do....

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

That's unfortunate to hear about.  I wonder though whether he crashed into a car resulting in damages and was at fault.  Maybe he refused to pay for repairs so the car driver had to call the police to intervene which resulted in things escalating. 

It would be good to hear the car owner's side of the story as often these news reports can be pretty one sided.

[Roll Model]

On 9/5/2016 at 8:56 PM, animan said:

Couldn't find it in the link either.

I believe the following law was passed end of last year in California that might apply to EUCs.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB604

I have it printed out and carry it with me while riding the EUC.

Perhaps we need a Special Section for information like this, Laws and such, tickets and confiscations so we could educate ourselves (or each other) - I'd hate to loose a $1600.00 personal mobility device due to ignorance and injustice.
Information is a resource and stocking up is always good.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I think the take home message is that these EUCs are still "grey market" in some areas so if you get into an accident with someone else's property and are at fault, man up and pay for any damages rather than get the police involved as it can ruin things for everyone else.   I'm not saying that is what neccessarily happened in this case in Wales, but now that it hit the news what do you think the EUC sales graph will be like for the area and what fear will it put into riders there?

Some people unfortunately don't care too much about others and will lie, cheat, and do anything to try to justify their opinion to themselves and others including contacting the media to try to get their point across.  Is the ruling unfair?  If he wasn't riding recklessly then I think so.  I need more details though.  If it was just a plain ol' accident with him at fault they should have just made him pay for any damages, pay a reasonable fine, and returned his wheel.  I don't know.  These grey area cases are difficult to make a decision on due to my EUC biases.  

[Vik's]

3 hours ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

That's unfortunate to hear about.  I wonder though whether he crashed into a car resulting in damages and was at fault.  Maybe he refused to pay for repairs so the car driver had to call the police to intervene which resulted in things escalating. 

It would be good to hear the car owner's side of the story as often these news reports can be pretty one sided.

Agreed.

But I wonder if it was a bicycle - then they would not be as harsh with him... And I've seen too many people riding their bikes recklessly...

[The Fat Unicyclist]

1 hour ago, Vik's said:

But I wonder if it was a bicycle - then they would not be as harsh with him... And I've seen too many people riding their bikes recklessly...

And bicycles can go just as fast (or faster) than EUC, without insurance...

[Silverbrewer]

Surely in a lot of instances, anyone getting real flack just needs to fit a tiny insignificant trailing castoring wheel to technically turn the electric unicycle into an electric bi cycle

"Bike" comes from the word bi cycle, which is what you have just turned the unicycle into by fitting the extra wheel

i am hoping I will become proficient at riding mine before the UK comes up with some ridiculous ruling.

Trouble is, last time I looked, you cannot legally ride a bike (or push a pram) on a pavement, and even in broad daylight, it is illigal not to have lights fitted to a bike, but if I had a quid for every un lit bike I see each morning at 0500hrs, I could  afford pub beer prices

 Beaurocrats, scum of the earth!

 

[Keith]

11 hours ago, Silverbrewer said:

Bike" comes from the word bi cycle, which is what you have just turned the unicycle into by fitting the extra wheel

i am hoping I will become proficient at riding mine before the UK comes up with some ridiculous ruling.

Trouble is, last time I looked, you cannot legally ride a bike (or push a pram) on a pavement, and even in broad daylight, it is illigal not to have lights fitted to a bike, but if I had a quid for every un lit bike I see each morning at 0500hrs, I could  afford pub beer prices

The relevant language in UK law is "peddle cycle" which covers one, two, three or more wheels but is VERY specific about the peddles, although recent legistlation has reintroduced the term "bike", muddying  the waters again and "forgetting " the unicycle see here for example: https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules.

You are completely wrong about lighting. There is no legal requirement for lights to be fitted in the day, but very specific requirements between sunset and sunrise: http://www.cyclinguk.org/cyclists-library/regulations/lighting-regulations