I just upgraded from Kingsong 16S to 16X, but...

[JohnnyWheels]

...I feel I made a huge mistake. 
I started with EUC on a whim about 2 months ago. I bought the Kingsong 14M to learn on, and after a few hours I got the hang of it, and noticed just how under powered the KS14 was (naturally), so I bought the 16S, which I fell in love with! I love how it handles, and it fits my need perfectly, as I like cruising along around town, up and down the streets sight seeing. I dont see myself needing a super high performance wheel with 40 mph+ top speed for long stretch cruise. 
BUT, its a tad too slow. Top speed is ~35 km/h, and since im a heavier rider (90kg), I have the alarm set at 30 to have a comfortable safety margin. And now its really getting to me, the low speed. I love the long carves at top speed, but I constantly wish it would go just a itty-bitty bit more. 40-45 km/h would be perfect!

So, couple of days ago I received my new Kingsong 16X, as I thought that would probably mimic the characteristics of the 16S, basically the same wheel just a tad bigger in all aspects.

16X feels SO nimble, so at walking pace its incredibly agile, which I love... but after 5 min of normal speed riding, I just hated the feel! Its not at all like the 16S.. Like, the gyro is so powerful, and my turning technique is completely different on the 16X. I feel im constantly fighting the wheel to turn! Having to shift my weight over and keep the wheel up against my leg to 'drag it along'. On the 16S I feel im skiing when carving, but the 16X is just dragging it with me.. I cant stand it.

I know 5min is not enough to even get close to really getting to learn the wheel, but at this point im so disappointed, going from a wheel I felt SO confidant on, to this new one that feels completely differet.

I think at this point I really want someone experienced out there to tell me that it WILL be okey, and that it just feels like this cause its a new wheel, lol. Please guys, tell me its so!

Also, the tyre thats on is the CST one (i know theres a debate about tyre choice and gyro effect).

Idk.. At this point im choosing to ride my 16S over the 16X 

-Johnny

[null]

Hi and welcome. I can’t talk for 16s > 16x, but have done a similar path in tire sizes. Every time the new EUC feel sluggish and that it barely turns. This seem to be mainly because one got used to the smaller tire needing less input. You will most certainly get used to the 16x and the 16s will start to feel fiddly.. just give it some time and more input.

(as for which tire has less “gyro effect” someone else might have to chime in, but AFAIK only the very first ones had a strong such effect.)

Edited June 3, 2021 by null

[Boris Lämpel]

I completely understand Your problem.

I switched from the KS16S to the Ninebot Z10. So the difference was even bigger. But You will get used to it. For me I experienced loving the "fight-carving" on the Z10. It is not just standing any more, it becomes a sport. Everytime I switch back to smaller and slimmer tires, I have to concentrate not to fall over in a curve, besause I got used to the hard leaning.

I would compare it to motorbikes: a cruiser is just for cruising along. On a race bike you lean hard into the curves and also change your position on the bike.

Just give it more time. Maybe the slimmer tire would be better for you, but the overall average todays 3' tire wheels bring, will compensate it.

Keep in mind that the KS16X diameter is also a bit larger, which affects turning negatively too.

[GreyRider]

After a 100 miles or so, I got used to the gyro effect on the 16X with the CST tire and kind of liked it at the time. I now have a Chaoyang tire as I already had it when the tire needed to be replaced. It has no gyro effect. All in all, I do like the Chaoyang tire better over the CST. It just rides more like other wheels.

[OldFartRides]

I went from the 16s to the s18, and i too hated it in the first five minutes. 
How is the tire pressure ? Might want to play with that.

I was noticing my tire was getting pretty soft so I checked it. 
Was down to 20psi. I bumped it to 30 for my ride around town just now.

Wow, it was squirrelly, but fun. 

Keep the rubber side down !

Best,

Edited June 3, 2021 by OldFartRides
Adding to it.

[.....]

9 hours ago, JohnnyWheels said:

...I feel I made a huge mistake. 
I started with EUC on a whim about 2 months ago. I bought the Kingsong 14M to learn on, and after a few hours I got the hang of it, and noticed just how under powered the KS14 was (naturally), so I bought the 16S, which I fell in love with! I love how it handles, and it fits my need perfectly, as I like cruising along around town, up and down the streets sight seeing. I dont see myself needing a super high performance wheel with 40 mph+ top speed for long stretch cruise. 
BUT, its a tad too slow. Top speed is ~35 km/h, and since im a heavier rider (90kg), I have the alarm set at 30 to have a comfortable safety margin. And now its really getting to me, the low speed. I love the long carves at top speed, but I constantly wish it would go just a itty-bitty bit more. 40-45 km/h would be perfect!

So, couple of days ago I received my new Kingsong 16X, as I thought that would probably mimic the characteristics of the 16S, basically the same wheel just a tad bigger in all aspects.

16X feels SO nimble, so at walking pace its incredibly agile, which I love... but after 5 min of normal speed riding, I just hated the feel! Its not at all like the 16S.. Like, the gyro is so powerful, and my turning technique is completely different on the 16X. I feel im constantly fighting the wheel to turn! Having to shift my weight over and keep the wheel up against my leg to 'drag it along'. On the 16S I feel im skiing when carving, but the 16X is just dragging it with me.. I cant stand it.

I know 5min is not enough to even get close to really getting to learn the wheel, but at this point im so disappointed, going from a wheel I felt SO confidant on, to this new one that feels completely differet.

I think at this point I really want someone experienced out there to tell me that it WILL be okey, and that it just feels like this cause its a new wheel, lol. Please guys, tell me its so!

Also, the tyre thats on is the CST one (i know theres a debate about tyre choice and gyro effect).

Idk.. At this point im choosing to ride my 16S over the 16X 

-Johnny

Youll get used to it and it won't bother you. Mten to Sherman to 18XL rider here. Each is different but not so much that skills dont transfer. If it was REALLY tough, i'd not be able to do it very easily.  Put 100miles down before you make any rash decisions.

[Hangman]

9 hours ago, JohnnyWheels said:

So, couple of days ago I received my new Kingsong 16X, as I thought that would probably mimic the characteristics of the 16S, basically the same wheel just a tad bigger in all aspects.

First of all, welcome to the forum. Second, congrats on the purchase of the 16X ... 

So you have buyers remorse for the wheel have you?  Lemme show describe to you the problem (can't 'show' you as it takes pics & they have to have a link ).

Now realize the 16S has a 2.125 (54mm) width tire where the 16X has a 3.0 (76mm) width tire.  A whole 22.225mm difference.  It may not look it but the difference is HUGE when riding.  I, like GreyRider came from a V8 to the 16X.  The V8 has a 1.95 (49.5mm) width tire so I experienced roughly the same thing you are going through. 

Also, the 16S is 17.5 kg where the 16X is 23.5 kg & it's all battery.  I am not sure how the 16S compares to the V8 (13.6 kg) but for me the 16X felt really top heavy.  When I tried to turn, it put a lot of pressure on my outside leg as I tried to lean.  Being used to the V8, the wheel hardly ever touched my leg.  I could adjust my weight on the pedal & cause the wheel to lean into the turn instead of me adjusting my body weight to turn.  Many of the comments of the Z10's turning is a love/hate relationship.  The Z10 wants to stand up & you really have to lean into your turn to make it lean.  One of the videos (Wrong Way) shows how much 'over' the side of the wheel he has to lean to make it turn (it's like 23 seconds into the video).  I felt that when I first started riding the 16X.  Now granted the 16X is NOT the Z10 but the concept is the same ... especially when coming from a thinner tire to the wider one. 

I still do not like shifting my body weight 'over' the wheel to turn so I'm still learning to lean the wheel rather than myself but it takes a lot more weight on the inside pedal than the V8 needed.

It will take time to adjust to the new weight to be able to carve as effectively as you did with the 16S.  I have had my 16X for only a few months now so I am still adjusting to it myself but I have definitely outgrown my V8.

Best advice I can give; don't fight it, embrace it.  It's a new experience, a new learning curve, a new wheel.  Don't try to hold onto the old ways with a new unit.  It's like trying to unlock a new car manually when you have an automated door lock button. 

[GoGeorgeGo]

5 hours ago, Hangman said:

 

It will take time to adjust to the new weight to be able to carve as effectively as you did with the 16S.  I have had my 16X for only a few months now so I am still adjusting to it myself but I have definitely outgrown my V8.

Best advice I can give; don't fight it, embrace it.  It's a new experience, a new learning curve, a new wheel.  Don't try to hold onto the old ways with a new unit.  It's like trying to unlock a new car manually when you have an automated door lock button. 

Totally agree. I believe it's both about learning the new wheel, and more importantly building up the new muscles.

Think of it like lifting weights, you start with 5 lbs and you like how easy they are. You move up to 10 lbs and they feel terrible at first. But eventually they feel fine and you move up to 20. If you go back to 5, it feels like a joke.

I remember when i was first introduced to unicycles. It was a v8. My buddy bought it and he told me it was a 900$ device. To me, that was expensive as hell at the time. And learning on it, the machine felt like it had serious balls. I rembered thinking i would never max out the speed on it. He also had a v5f and it felt so much bigger and stronger than the v5f, it was really a badass little wheel. When he finally upgraded to a nikola+, it felt terrible to me, it was so heavy and hard to turn, i decided the v8 was all i ever needed. 

But eventually i got range locked out of riding with all my friends who had much larger devices. And i was the slowpoke in the back when i did tag along so i knew i had to upgrade. Today im mostly riding my gotway EXN, which is one of the heavier wheels and larger wheels on the market. And at this point i think its insanely nimble, i can turn on a dime, carve , jump curbs, you name it.

When i get back on the v8 now, i honestly think im going to break it. It feels like a little toy, and it feels bad to ride honestly. The tiny tire does not deal with imperfections in the road well at all. Something that once felt like a beast of a wheel to me is now scary to ride because it feels so weak and rough.

Now i have built up so much strength that even my friends 22" gotway monster handles like a charm. 

Morale of the story, you need to build up new muscles. What took a feather to move on the v8 takes a hard press on the monster, but once you have acquired the necessary strength and endurance, you dont even notice the difference anymore. 

[OneLeg]

16 hours ago, JohnnyWheels said:

...I feel I made a huge mistake. 
I started with EUC on a whim about 2 months ago. I bought the Kingsong 14M to learn on, and after a few hours I got the hang of it, and noticed just how under powered the KS14 was (naturally), so I bought the 16S, which I fell in love with! I love how it handles, and it fits my need perfectly, as I like cruising along around town, up and down the streets sight seeing. I dont see myself needing a super high performance wheel with 40 mph+ top speed for long stretch cruise. 
BUT, its a tad too slow. Top speed is ~35 km/h, and since im a heavier rider (90kg), I have the alarm set at 30 to have a comfortable safety margin. And now its really getting to me, the low speed. I love the long carves at top speed, but I constantly wish it would go just a itty-bitty bit more. 40-45 km/h would be perfect!

So, couple of days ago I received my new Kingsong 16X, as I thought that would probably mimic the characteristics of the 16S, basically the same wheel just a tad bigger in all aspects.

16X feels SO nimble, so at walking pace its incredibly agile, which I love... but after 5 min of normal speed riding, I just hated the feel! Its not at all like the 16S.. Like, the gyro is so powerful, and my turning technique is completely different on the 16X. I feel im constantly fighting the wheel to turn! Having to shift my weight over and keep the wheel up against my leg to 'drag it along'. On the 16S I feel im skiing when carving, but the 16X is just dragging it with me.. I cant stand it.
 

Yeah, if you know how to turn and had a unicycle that can turn the 16X is a awful, scary, does what it wants. I hate it myself. The "assisted turning" is at least scary... then the wheel is so heavy... When it came out I felt it was hugely overrated... Here in HK it is the most available unicycle 2nd hand, people want to dump them even for US$700. There are much better smaller and bigger unicycles.

[JohnnyWheels]

Thank you guys so much for taking the time to give me such useful and detailed feedback! Always nice to know 'you´re not alone', that you guys seem to speak from your own experiences with the exact same thing. It has really changed my outlook on the future of my 16X, in a positive way ^^
Its quite uplifting reading these replies, and I definitely get what you all are saying. 

Again, thanks a lot!

[null]

6 hours ago, OneLeg said:

Yeah, if you know how to turn and had a unicycle that can turn the 16X is a awful, scary, does what it wants. I hate it myself. The "assisted turning" is at least scary... then the wheel is so heavy... When it came out I felt it was hugely overrated... Here in HK it is the most available unicycle 2nd hand, people want to dump them even for US$700. There are much better smaller and bigger unicycles.

That’s weird, I never heard such a thing. If anything 16X (as well as Nikola, same tire) are rather appreciated from what I’ve seen here and French forum. Their 16x3 tire is stable yet more maneuverable than 18x3. The recurring points against the 16X are limited top speed and weatherproofing. Not handling.

If anything I would have thought it adapted to HK by its above average torque for the hilly terrain, as well as wide tire for riding slow on sidewalks.

Do you have any idea of why it would be unfit for HK specifically?

Edited June 4, 2021 by null

[JohnnyWheels]

Is there issues with waterproofing on the 16X??

I read it had IP rating 56, which protects against strong water jets from all directions. Is this false?

[null]

12 minutes ago, JohnnyWheels said:

Is there issues with waterproofing on the 16X??

I read it had IP rating 56, which protects against strong water jets from all directions. Is this false?

AFAIK it has no official IP rating (sellers say many things) and the first batches had some issues with water infiltration around the power button. I believe this has been addressed since then, but you might look up if there are some additional steps to do if you plan to ride a lot in the rain. KS has pretty decent weatherproofing in general, and in this case it isn't so much the batteries that are affected.

Edited June 4, 2021 by null

[OneLeg]

21 hours ago, null said:

That’s weird, I never heard such a thing. If anything 16X (as well as Nikola, same tire) are rather appreciated from what I’ve seen here and French forum. Their 16x3 tire is stable yet more maneuverable than 18x3. The recurring points against the 16X are limited top speed and weatherproofing. Not handling.

If anything I would have thought it adapted to HK by its above average torque for the hilly terrain, as well as wide tire for riding slow on sidewalks.

Do you have any idea of why it would be unfit for HK specifically?

Very simple, it was hyped, up, it didn't deliver, there is better, then they all sell. Many unicycles are sold in HK and resold, we don't have any shipping cost or the "lithium transportation" premium you guys pay in Europe and USA.... 

The 16X "assited turning sucks. the pedal dipping and when you turn and then flipping back almost throws me off every time I ride one.. I want pedals firm and stable and I want to be able to accelerate as I corner to retain traction whilst I am leaning hard or scraping pedals.

 

[null]

3 hours ago, OneLeg said:

it was hyped, up, it didn't deliver, there is better, then they all sell. Many unicycles are sold in HK and resold, we don't have any shipping cost or the "lithium transportation" premium you guys pay in Europe and USA.... 

I fail to see your argument here. It was hyped just like any product launch except maybe gotway because they are busy making the next random iteration of the MS3. So it was hyped, just like most EUCs these days, and what did it not deliver that was hyped? Top speed? If anything KS didn't spec it high at the start, its community complains that made them set it higher. It hyped torque with Kuji riding uphill, and have delivered.

Whether they are resold in HK can be as much your cognitive bias as the result of group influence from people stating that the 16X "doesn't deliver". Prices in other countries are unrelated.

3 hours ago, OneLeg said:

The 16X "assited turning sucks. the pedal dipping and when you turn and then flipping back almost throws me off every time I ride one.. I want pedals firm and stable and I want to be able to accelerate as I corner to retain traction whilst I am leaning hard or scraping pedals.

The 16X pedal dip compensation / "assisted turning" is the same as any other recent KS wheel, and was noticeable on firmware 1.x, and especially if it wasn't properly calibrated. Since firmware 2.x it isn't noticeable at all. From the strong words you use to relate your experience it sounds like you either experienced a bad unit, isn't used to 3" EUCs, that the 16X had the old "gyro" tire or you aren't being objective. In all my time on various forums this is the first time I read this argument. If it ever have been vaguely valid at some point it has been corrected since then.

You are free to any opinion, but stating other peoples EUC sucks purely based on your impressions is hardly constructive. We are lucky to have little fanboy taunting and flamewars in the EUC communities, and I hope it stays that way.

@JohnnyWheels you can notice @OneLeg, who doesn't own a 16X nor any 3" EUC, is the only one to have expressed such an opinion in the thread. You'll get used to the new tire size, the 16X is an appreciated EUC in the vast majority of cases.

I'll rest my case here, someone is wrong on the internet etc 🙄

Edited June 5, 2021 by null

[Chili D]

I went from 16s as first wheel and logged over 1000 miles and really enjoyed it.  My everyday current wheel is the 16x. I’ve since logged over 2700 miles on the 16x as of today. I rarely pull out the 16s unless for short neighborhood rides, my 16x is charging, or I’m doing tricks that are easier with a lighter wheel. 
 

It did take about two weeks, 60-75 miles, to adjust to the weight and new physics of the 16x’s wheel size, height, and higher center of gravity. My wheel did come with the chao yang tire. All in all, it is a different wheel and does do all the things the 16s can do.
 

-the 16x handle is more reachable and appealing  for me at 6’. Other amenities are really nice(brighter lights, lift disengage switch, faster charging, dual usb)

-the 16x feels more sturdy for me to lean into being that I’m 190lbs (I have forced the 16s to cut out by over lean on a couple occasions)

- I do have to work a little bit harder to do the same 1 leg tricks and I had to learn to manage my balance differently riding between 22-29 mph.
 

Doing the short jaunt around home or keeping pace with group rides in San Fran is a pleasure with the 16x and have no negatives to say about the 16x and what it’s design was spec’d for. 
 

(Not gon’ lie— I do want a wheel that can go farther and faster, but mainly for the group rides or my long day off cruises.)

 

[Uniforlife]

On 6/3/2021 at 6:03 AM, JohnnyWheels said:

...I feel I made a huge mistake. 
I started with EUC on a whim about 2 months ago. I bought the Kingsong 14M to learn on, and after a few hours I got the hang of it, and noticed just how under powered the KS14 was (naturally), so I bought the 16S, which I fell in love with! I love how it handles, and it fits my need perfectly, as I like cruising along around town, up and down the streets sight seeing. I dont see myself needing a super high performance wheel with 40 mph+ top speed for long stretch cruise. 
BUT, its a tad too slow. Top speed is ~35 km/h, and since im a heavier rider (90kg), I have the alarm set at 30 to have a comfortable safety margin. And now its really getting to me, the low speed. I love the long carves at top speed, but I constantly wish it would go just a itty-bitty bit more. 40-45 km/h would be perfect!

So, couple of days ago I received my new Kingsong 16X, as I thought that would probably mimic the characteristics of the 16S, basically the same wheel just a tad bigger in all aspects.

16X feels SO nimble, so at walking pace its incredibly agile, which I love... but after 5 min of normal speed riding, I just hated the feel! Its not at all like the 16S.. Like, the gyro is so powerful, and my turning technique is completely different on the 16X. I feel im constantly fighting the wheel to turn! Having to shift my weight over and keep the wheel up against my leg to 'drag it along'. On the 16S I feel im skiing when carving, but the 16X is just dragging it with me.. I cant stand it.

I know 5min is not enough to even get close to really getting to learn the wheel, but at this point im so disappointed, going from a wheel I felt SO confidant on, to this new one that feels completely differet.

I think at this point I really want someone experienced out there to tell me that it WILL be okey, and that it just feels like this cause its a new wheel, lol. Please guys, tell me its so!

Also, the tyre thats on is the CST one (i know theres a debate about tyre choice and gyro effect).

Idk.. At this point im choosing to ride my 16S over the 16X 

-Johnny

I 2 Got a 16s  as my first wheel I must say I am a fairly proficient pedal unicycle rider from a very young age

I am with you on the speed I wish it would go just a tiny bit faster as well I have been scrambling and chomping at the bit for at least a larger and wider tire ever since I got this wheel I bought two different bicycle tires that fit but was afraid kind of to get a big one that made me cut and raise my shell but I finally did it bought a 2.5 tire and it increases the top speed by 2 to 3 mph makes it so stable over bumps at high-speed I have never ridden a 16 X but the 2.5 inch tire mod on your 16s may just be the answer 

I am willing to try to make like a tutorial on the process; there is one other person that says they did the tire mod on here but they don’t give much info Except for where they got the tire which was very helpful monsterscooter.com I believe

Also part of the reason you’re fighting so much to turn probably is the 3 inch wide tire on the X play around with tire pressure a little bit and see if that helps

[Tawpie]

I’m late to this party and my wheel buying order is reversed… I learned on a 16x and added an MTen. So I got comfortable turning and carving and zooming and stopping on the 16x… and let me tell you, I am getting to relearn all of it on the MTen.

The wheels definitely ride differently, because they’re… not the same. My 16x carves-like-skiing, and I can also carve with body-hanging-leg-pulling like I’m cornering a superbike (well, not that close to how a superbike corners). The MTen: no body lean allowed, only weight shifting and “think” left and right. It doesn’t carve as much as it zig zags. 25 mph on the 16x is an all day thing (I don’t like to go quite that fast though), 16mph on the Mten is a complete mental workout. 2mph on the Mten is like walking, it’s marginally too slow on the 16x.

16x isn’t a 16s… a weeks time and you’ll feel much better about your choice! And if you’re at all like many, you’ll find that having wheels that act differently is a good thing. Then you’ll get a Sherman. Then a suspension wheel. Or two. And an MTen.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Tawpie

[OldFartRides]

6 hours ago, Uniforlife said:

I 2 Got a 16s  as my first wheel I must say I am a fairly proficient pedal unicycle rider from a very young age.

Welcome to the forum. Yet another classical unicyclist going electric ! That’s great.

Also, good job on the 2.5 mod. That would go well in the diy/ mod section. I bought a knobby for mine, but never put it on when I had it apart because I bought an s18.

Best,

[Surfling]

On 6/3/2021 at 7:03 AM, JohnnyWheels said:

but after 5 min of normal speed riding, I just hated the feel! Its not at all like the 16S.

Dude!  after 5 minutes?  Pfftt!  How about voicing a complain after 100 Miles or Kms?

Edited June 7, 2021 by Surfling

[redsnapper]

i made similar move to 16x - hAted it initially but then i took for a good long rip - i stopped riding my other wheels! give it more time. ur 16s will feel like toy in comparison...

[mrelwood]

On 6/3/2021 at 2:03 PM, JohnnyWheels said:

...I feel I made a huge mistake

As you can now so clearly see, this is most normal reaction to a new wheel that behaves differently than the one whose behavior you are so deeply familiar with. We’ve all been there. In an EUC it’s all about the single tire, so the differences are much larger than on a multi-wheel vehicle.

For me going from Lhotz to 16S was an easy upgrade since the size of the weight didn’t increase much. Power, range and speed did. But then a year later I bought the MSX.  Gotway’s riding modes take care of the wheel being as unresponsive as it possibly can, and on an 18x3” wheel I felt like all the fun and ease of moving about was gone.

I think it was the same 100-200km for me that was required for the new normal to adjust to a more physical riding style. After which the 16S has been a mere toy wheel that I only use from my house to the parking lot if I want to have a wheel in the trunk just in case.

 All that you now feel as the wheel fighting back is going to be recognized as additional stability soon enough. Although the comments about the tire pressure are worthy of bearing in mind as well. It has a huge effect in the handling and safety.

If you end up not getting along with the wheel as well as expected, before selling the wheel you should consider replacing the tire. The difference can be night and day.

[Tawpie]

16 hours ago, mrelwood said:

you should consider replacing the tire.

if a new tire is in the cards, mine came with an H666 and I totally lucked out. It's a wonderful tire on and off road—if you weren't as fortunate, the H666 is my recommendation.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Tawpie

[redsnapper]

34 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

if a new tire is in the cards, mine came with an H666 and I totally lucked out. It's a wonderful tire on and off road tire—if you weren't as fortunate, the H666 is my recommendation.

Almost guaranteed the unease is from not being used to the increased mass of a bigger machine. But this will soon become an asset when comfort level increases (with time on machine) and tackling terrain out of reach for a 16s. A 3ìnch tire offers way more stability because of the larger contact patch. I had to revert from my KS16X to a v8 and it is nowhere near as stable/versatile. I miss my 16x!

[GreyRider]

40 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

if a new tire is in the cards, mine came with an H666 and I totally lucked out. It's a wonderful tire on and off road tire—if you weren't as fortunate, the H666 is my recommendation.

I have the ChoaYang H-5167 and it is also a great tire.