Citi Wheel Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 A week ago I was riding to work on my msuper2. I don't actually remember this, I just remember waking up in the hospital on Christmas Eve. I ended up breaking my clavicle and hitting my head in the accident. I am now having some memory issues and will likely need surgery for the clavicle. Everyone be warned, always be prepared for an electric unicycle to cut out on you and wear wrist guards and a helmet at a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I am very sorry to hear about this, my prayers are with you. I wish you a full and fast recovery. This should be a wake up call for everyone ( myself included ) who grow complacent riding a wheel especially at the msuper speeds. Thank you @logos122 for posting this. You suffered pretty badly but you may have saved lives by reminding everyone that we are all very fragile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Sorry to hear about your incident. I hope and pray for your full and quick recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Jeez, hope you recover fast & fully. Were you wearing a helmet at the time? I'm sooo gonna keep using my "robocop"-outfit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playdad Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 50 minutes ago, logos122 said: A week ago I was riding to work on my msuper2. I don't actually remember this, I just remember waking up in the hospital on Christmas Eve... Wow. This is scary! OTOH, I'm glad Christmas gave you the gift of a second chance. It could have been much worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanquiz Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Wish you a speedy recovery, thank you for sharing your experience, it will makes many of us more careful and wear safeties when riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardmech Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 What is with all the gotway accidents? Someone needs to take one, hook it up to a power supply and dyno then test if it shuts down under heavy use. If the mosfets or motor give out before shutdown it must be a BMS issue. But if it's turning itself off if the mosfets get hot or something similar people need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, lizardmech said: What is with all the gotway accidents? Someone needs to take one, hook it up to a power supply and dyno then test if it shuts down under heavy use. If the mosfets or motor give out before shutdown it must be a BMS issue. But if it's turning itself off if the mosfets get hot or something similar people need to know. It could happen to any brand. We also don't know for sure the real cause of the accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citi Wheel Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 @Cloud @SlowMo @Vanquiz Thank you. @playdad Yes definitely. I ride in traffic and could've been ran over by a car. @esaj No I wasn't. Didn't think I would ever crash. Foolish. A $20 helmet would've saved me a lot of grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 1 minute ago, logos122 said: @Cloud @SlowMo @Vanquiz Thank you. @playdad Yes definitely. I ride in traffic and could've been ran over by a car. @esaj No I wasn't. Didn't think I would ever crash. Foolish. A $20 helmet would've saved me a lot of grief. Logos, you story has made a difference already. I just ordered gloves and knee guards. I should stoo riding totally unprotected like an idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citi Wheel Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 6 minutes ago, SlowMo said: It could happen to any brand. We also don't know for sure the real cause of the accident. I don't think it was a bump as the I road I ride on is pretty smooth. I have audio from the crash and the gotway was not beeping so I don't think I was pushing it beyond its limits. The gotway was acting a little strange a couple days before the crash which should've been a warning I heeded (battery indicator lights were acting odd). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 13 minutes ago, lizardmech said: What is with all the gotway accidents? Someone needs to take one, hook it up to a power supply and dyno then test if it shuts down under heavy use. If the mosfets or motor give out before shutdown it must be a BMS issue. But if it's turning itself off if the mosfets get hot or something similar people need to know. There are a couple of things I can think of that make it look like they have more accidents: looking just at the post counts in the brand-specific forums, Gotways are the second most popular wheels (after Ninebots). Also, Gotways are (probably) still the fastest wheels around, MSuper2 High Speed has been out for what, over a year? I don't think any other manufacturer has yet made a wheel that can get close to 40km/h. That brings us to my second point, because they're fast wheels, the accidents occur (usually) at higher speeds, and the damage is much worse due to that. I know vee has blown at least one Gotway MSuper2 mainboard (and I mean literally blown, as in the mosfets exploded). But that was with custom lipo-packs, if I recall correctly. Completely broken MSupers seem somewhat rare though, at least based on my memories of reading about them so far (of course, the Ninebot firmware-fiascos have overshadowed the problems with other wheels lately). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playdad Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 @Cloud Yeah, it seems like too many guys on this forum ride with no (or very little) protection. I admit I do feel a little silly sometimes with full set of bike helmet, wrist-guards and knee/elbow guards. But I force myself to do it because it just takes one nasty accident for months/years of regret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 We were lucky our Ninebot was not on the road when the mainboard, battery and motor burned. That could have been a bad incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKJ Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I sure hope you get well as soon as possible and must thank you for sharing so others can be aware. I looked so funny yesterday doing my first ever off road E U C, old knee and elbow pads, but new highest quality wrist guards and hard shell helmet and thicker leather boots with modified knee pads acting like shin guards facing inwards at the E U C, padded shorts over my pants. Having many crashes was sure please to be "suited up"! Just like another activity protection is good. Better safe than sorry! ukj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 12 minutes ago, playdad said: @Cloud Yeah, it seems like too many guys on this forum ride with no (or very little) protection. I admit I do feel a little silly sometimes with full set of bike helmet, wrist-guards and knee/elbow guards. But I force myself to do it because it just takes one nasty accident for months/years of regret. Yes i feel silly too , i only wore my helmet a couple of times and then stopped. I have knew pads and elbow pads but they are crappy and always creep down my legs and arms. So i just ordered a new set of elbow pads and knee pads that should be better and also gloves with turn signals built in, which should protect the palms of my hands. I will try to force myself to wear a helmet. I am one of the people who likes to push the speed limits and rides dangerously. We all need a wake up call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardmech Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 1 minute ago, esaj said: There are a couple of things I can think of that make it look like they have more accidents: looking just at the post counts in the brand-specific forums, Gotways are the second most popular wheels (after Ninebots). Also, Gotways are (probably) still the fastest wheels around, MSuper2 High Speed has been out for what, over a year? I don't think any other manufacturer has yet made a wheel that can get close to 40km/h. That brings us to my second point, because they're fast wheels, the accidents occur (usually) at higher speeds, and the damage is much worse due to that. I know vee has blown at least one Gotway MSuper2 mainboard (and I mean literally blown, as in the mosfets exploded). Completely broken MSupers seem somewhat rare though, at least based on my memories of reading about them so far (of course, the Ninebot firmware-fiascos have overshadowed the problems with other wheels lately). I think it's the high speed models in general. I'm very skeptical that they can dissipate the heat they produce with their current designs. Although they have a copper bar or plate, they are sealed in a compartment with little way to remove heat. It's very likely that cannot operate continuously without failure. If the metal heatsink only gives a buffer rather than removing more heat than produced by the fets then you have a time limit before shutdown is a certainty. It will vary based on ambient temp and other factors. But if that is the case then people are only avoiding crashes because they typically run out of batteries or get where they're going before mosfet failure occurs. If that is happening the design is flawed, you should be able to melt the motor before the control board fails. It should be reasonably easy to calculate if it's happening if anyone knows the mosfets used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 18 minutes ago, lizardmech said: I think it's the high speed models in general. If a wheel shuts down on you at slow speed, you generally just run off, and people don't call it an "accident". If a Gotway (or other fast wheel) shuts down on you at 30+km/h, it's much more unlikely that you run it off and end up hurting yourself, so it's then more "easily" termed an accident and not "just" a shutdown. Quote I'm very skeptical that they can dissipate the heat they produce with their current designs. Although they have a copper bar or plate, they are sealed in a compartment with little way to remove heat. It's very likely that cannot operate continuously without failure. If the metal heatsink only gives a buffer rather than removing more heat than produced by the fets then you have a time limit before shutdown is a certainty. It will vary based on ambient temp and other factors. Not sure how it's done in the original version, vee has modded the hell out of his wheel, with at least extra heatsinks, cooling fan & battery heater for winter riding, plus a custom mainboard that can run even higher speeds than the original HS-mainboard... On Firewheel, the mosfets conduct to a metal plate that's next to the spinning wheel (with an aluminum heatsink and thermal pads in between). Quote But if that is the case then people are only avoiding crashes because they typically run out of batteries or get where they're going before mosfet failure occurs. If that is happening the design is flawed, you should be able to melt the motor before the control board fails. It should be reasonably easy to calculate if it's happening if anyone knows the mosfets used. King Songs and Gotways have been used on those (PR?) 5000km trips, I think they were riding fairly long legs at one go. There was also that French(?) guy who rode from Amsterdam to Pyrenees: http://jiraichargerchezvous.blogspot.fr/ 18 days trip with only three days of bad weather. From 60 to 110 km per day. About 1600 kilometers across 3 countries. In France: eight regions / departments 20: 59, 02, 60, 77, 93, 75, 94, 91, 45, 18, 58, 03, 63, 19, 15, 46, 82, 31, 09, 65. 41 cases: 29 full recharges + 10 + 2 additional refills without electricity breaks. Approximately 202 hours of recharging of 39 electrical outlets. 10 kg lost. No accident, no technical problem. Gotway 18 "MSUPER: Wheel tested and approved 100% reliable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 So it seems that there will be no machine that is perfect and will tend to breakdown eventually for whatever reason. I bought helmets but we used them only once or twice for the wife says " We never go that fast". Now I will try to make a rule not to ride without them and she sort of agreed after hearing about this incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardmech Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 4 minutes ago, esaj said: King Songs and Gotways have been used on those (PR?) 5000km trips, I think they were riding fairly long legs at one go. There was also that French(?) guy who rode from Amsterdam to Pyrenees: http://jiraichargerchezvous.blogspot.fr/ 18 days trip with only three days of bad weather. From 60 to 110 km per day. About 1600 kilometers across 3 countries. In France: eight regions / departments 20: 59, 02, 60, 77, 93, 75, 94, 91, 45, 18, 58, 03, 63, 19, 15, 46, 82, 31, 09, 65. 41 cases: 29 full recharges + 10 + 2 additional refills without electricity breaks. Approximately 202 hours of recharging of 39 electrical outlets. 10 kg lost. No accident, no technical problem. Gotway 18 "MSUPER: Wheel tested and approved 100% reliable! It would depend on many variables. With a light rider on flat ground you might be using on average 250-300 watts cruising along, assuming the fets are maybe 97% efficient leaving you with 3w or so of heat, maybe the sealed compartment can shed 1 watt of heat but it probably takes 12 hours to get anywhere near overheating. The problem is when you throw in other variables, you get a heavier rider equipped with a large battery pack who's trip starts with him climbing a 2km hill. He burns through 2kw of continuous output for a few minutes climbing it at 20-30 km/h the heatsink is now dealing with 50w+ of heat but has no way of removing it. He gets to the top of the hill and continues his ride across flat ground, problem is the heatsink and mosfets are now at 80C or so, the mosfets are now less efficient due to heat and close to failure temperature. The mosfets are now adding more than normal amounts of heat to the heatsink which doesn't even have a way to remove the heat from the hill climb, then the mosfets just continue to get less efficient until they fail. If they don't fail the heatsink will probably melt some other component when it gets around 100C. When I deal with mosfets on computer voltage regulation dealing with continuous 300watts+ with only passive cooling is impossible. You have to cool them with large heatsinks and fans or water cool them. Even when the mosfets can withstand 130c the rest of the board rarely does. I have never had a single properly cooled mosfet fail on any computer component I have ever owned, so it's abnormal if they are regularly failing on EUCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Here is @vee73 while recovering from a very simlary accident. He still finds time to roll while recuperating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean eRide.ie Community Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I feel very sorry for you, thanks for sharing, it will remind many people to use protection, myself I only use a cheap pads set on my generic, I'm upgrading to an IPS Xima soon, so I'll also upgrade the protection and use a helmet, even thinking of getting an armored motorcycle suit. I hope you'll recover soon. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomek Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 @logos122 get better soon! it's a terrible way for all of us to be reminded that electric unicycling IS an extreme sport, and we should never get too confident while riding, no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhpr262 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Some terminology from the motorcycling world that may be helpful for future discussions ... ATGATT: All The Gear All The Time MOTGATT: Most Of The Gear All The Time ATGMOTT: All The Gear Most Of The Time NOTGATT: None Of The Gear All Of The Time ATGATT 35:12-14 And Atgatt courted Motgatt, and took her for a wife. And lo, he compromised with Atgmott, and verily she conceived, and did bear a son, Notgatt. And Notgatt roamed naked, and did bequeath his skin to the roads. And he was a wild ass and an outcast, and was hated through all the land. And his forehead was branded, and he did become a sign and a warning to all the people. Yes, we motorcyclists are indeed weird sometimes, and yes we do have a long history with protective gear, why do you ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgen Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Wow man, this is heavy, I really wish you a fast and complete recovery. Thank you for sharing this with us, we all can lear a lot from this. It is extremely important to share accidents in our community, as there are always people who continue to cast doubt about the effectiveness of wearing protective gear, even a helmet when riding an EUC. Brain cells don't regenerate, new neural pathways are formed with the remaining cells, what is gone is gone (drugs, alcohol, accidents,etc). I'm fully aware that there are confounding factors impacting the effectiveness of wearing a helmet on a population base level, the most important one is probably that some riders may take more risks when wearing a helmet. HIgh risk taking behaviour is however something you decide yourself and you're accountable for the full 100%. A wheel that dies on you at +20KmH or a car that hits you, is a different story. If you don't want to do it for yourself, do it for your kids, friends, and the community. Wear a skate or motorcycle helmet (preferably not just a bike helmet), at all times, is the only sound advice that should be given to everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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