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New Gotway MSuper


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Just now, OliverH said:

Europe could have totally different sales figures (multiplication from current low sales figures) if they would listen what the market demands and what lobby work is needed for the long term to reach that goal.

Yes, I don't know why Gotway engineers can't program their operating system to do proper speed limit tilt back. Maybe since they are a small company and their production is already exhausted in the Asian market who mostly doesn't care about speed limit tilt-back because they don't overspeed that much unlike in Europe.

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10 hours ago, Cloud said:

Will you share some details of the cutoffs youve experienced? Thanks

Both times I had the wheel set to the Medium response setting. Alarm 1 and 2 were turned off from the app. While I was going at high speed it started wobbling and had to bail out. Both times were on very smooth pavement with no bumps. Not sure if it's my fault for pushing it too hard or if there's a new firmware that fixes that and wont allow for more speed if there's not enough available power. Either way I've been keeping it 5kmph under the max speed now just to be sure :)

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22 minutes ago, THEhiddenALEX said:

Also is the gotway msuper water resistant? If i were to take it through slushy snow or puddles of water will it break? 

Because I did that with my TG F3 mini and everything got soaked in water lol

All the manufacturers claim IP65-water/dust proofness, yet none of the actually are (at least from the ones I've seen teardowns off). If nothing else, the hole for the motor cable is not sealed. This goes for Ninebot, Gotways, Airwheels, generics, King Songs, IPSs etc... None of them would actually pass the IP65-certification, but as there's no mandatory certification process, the manufacturers can claim IP65 at will. Maybe Solowheel might have better waterproofing?

That being said, many riders use their wheels in (at least light) rain and snow without problems. Safest route is to open up the wheel and seal it yourself (with bathroom silicone or such).

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8 minutes ago, OliverH said:

An IP65 approval is done with powder and pressure. I can't believe *any* EU has real IP65 testing done or is IP65. In my opinion that's a marketing statement only.

There's a hefty manual for the actual testing procedures, the wikipedia-article gives an overview of what the level requirements are:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code#Code_breakdown

So for IP65 (first number is dust protection, second is liquid protection):

Solid particle protection[edit]

The first digit indicates the level of protection that the enclosure provides against access to hazardous parts (e.g., electrical conductors, moving parts) and the ingress of solid foreign objects.

6 Dust tight No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact (dust tight)

This would indicate no visible holes anywhere. The powder used in the tests is very fine, and none of it should be able to enter the casing.

Liquid ingress protection[edit]

The second digit indicates the level of protection that the enclosure provides against harmful ingress of water.[4][5]

5 Water jets Water projected by a nozzle (6.3 mm) against enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effects. Test duration: at least 3 minutes

Water volume: 12.5 litres per minute
Pressure: 30 kPa at distance of 3 m

Not that high pressure, but I could imagine the water entering the mainboard and/or battery compartment if the jet came from down below the wheel, in some cases also the covers of the compartments (in case they're accessible from the outside) could also leak at least somewhat.

The worst example is probably the Firewheel. The battery compartments (which are actually accessible only from inside the wheel, right next to the spinning tire) have next to no protection. Dust proof? 5mm rocks can enter the compartments! :D Liquid proof? The holes are on the top of the compartments, so all the water can run down straight into the compartments. Nothing that some hot-glue and silicone won't fix, but the IP65-claim is a joke in that case.

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Gotway would sell well in the states if it was advertised more. When people see me riding it they take videos and stop me to ask questions. When I purchased mine it took me a while to find this forum or a rep on aliexpress.com where I had to use bank transfer to pay for it and waited a month. In other words it was a pain to find one and buy it but worth it.

However if this becomes popular they REALLY need to fix the high speed cutoff. I've clocked my high speed version at 46 kph using a GPS app and I'm assuming I was going close to that when I crashed and I tell you it's not fun. And it happened twice (although I have to admit I was surprised of how little damage the wheel sustained). Any Gotway rep would not last long in the states if people crash like this because as you know people like to sue out here

This is my 2 cents after owning mine for 6 months and having put about about 500 km on it

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2 hours ago, THEhiddenALEX said:

Gotway would sell well in the states if it was advertised more. When people see me riding it they take videos and stop me to ask questions. When I purchased mine it took me a while to find this forum or a rep on aliexpress.com where I had to use bank transfer to pay for it and waited a month. In other words it was a pain to find one and buy it but worth it.

However if this becomes popular they REALLY need to fix the high speed cutoff. I've clocked my high speed version at 46 kph using a GPS app and I'm assuming I was going close to that when I crashed and I tell you it's not fun. And it happened twice (although I have to admit I was surprised of how little damage the wheel sustained). Any Gotway rep would not last long in the states if people crash like this because as you know people like to sue out here

This is my 2 cents after owning mine for 6 months and having put about about 500 km on it

Did you crach because of cut off. So its safe to say you can ride a couple km past the last set of beeps

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2 hours ago, Donafello said:

Did you crach because of cut off. So its safe to say you can ride a couple km past the last set of beeps

Yes I for sure pushed it past the last set of beeps but I feel like it should have a limiter where the software will slow the wheel down based on how much power is available. When the battery is full I feel like you can squeeze an extra 5 kmph on the top end, but with the battery at half charge it will only safely go up to 38

 

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7 minutes ago, THEhiddenALEX said:

Yes I for sure pushed it past the last set of beeps but I feel like it should have a limiter where the software will slow the wheel down based on how much power is available. When the battery is full I feel like you can squeeze an extra 5 kmph on the top end, but with the battery at half charge it will only safely go up to 38

 

The wheel slowing down is an equivqlent of a faceplant. Wheel needs to accelerate when you lean more to keep you upright. I see no other way to ensure the safety for high speed travel is a tiltbck making you stop leaning forward and slow down.

when the battery is less than full and a slower speed becomes the new limit, the wheel's tiltback needs to automatically adjust to occur at slower speeds. 

The lack of these features is the reason i still dont own an Msuper.

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13 minutes ago, THEhiddenALEX said:

Yes I for sure pushed it past the last set of beeps but I feel like it should have a limiter where the software will slow the wheel down based on how much power is available. When the battery is full I feel like you can squeeze an extra 5 kmph on the top end, but with the battery at half charge it will only safely go up to 38

 

@THEhiddenALEXWhat I don't get is that your fully aware of the 3 alarms warning you to slow down but instead you chose to ignore them. After the first one you should of learned your lesson. But you ingnored the warnings again. I find it hard to understand why you keep pushing pass what the wheels limitations are. I totally agree with many people on the forums that Gotway needs to implement a tilt back on the new Msuper like kingsong. But even with the tilt back feature if your gonna ignore it like the warnings, nothing's going to save you from face planting again. If you ride the kingsong, it's the same way. 

I think all manufacturers should implement a different warning sound when the motor hits 80% consumption of power from the batteries needed to power the motor. That way you know when to let off. 

Another thing people aren't keeping in mind is that when your already passed 23km/h, you can't lean heavily to go faster. You need to ease into a lean.

Example: motor is already using 70% of battery power to go 28km/h. You now want to go 33km/h. You need to ease into the lean til you get to 33km/h. Because if you lean to hard, you will easily pass the power needed to keep that motor spinning.

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7 minutes ago, NevNutz said:

@THEhiddenALEXWhat I don't get is that your fully aware of the 3 alarms warning you to slow down but instead you chose to ignore them. After the first one you should of learned your lesson. But you ingnored the warnings again. I find it hard to understand why you keep pushing pass what the wheels limitations are. I totally agree with many people on the forums that Gotway needs to implement a tilt back on the new Msuper like kingsong. But even with the tilt back feature if your gonna ignore it like the warnings, nothing's going to save you from face planting again. If you ride the kingsong, it's the same way. 

I think all manufacturers should implement a different warning sound when the motor hits 80% consumption of power from the batteries needed to power the motor. That way you know when to let off. 

Another thing people aren't keeping in mind is that when your already passed 23km/h, you can't lean heavily to go faster. You need to ease into a lean.

Example: motor is already using 70% of battery power to go 28km/h. You now want to go 33km/h. You need to ease into the lean til you get to 33km/h. Because if you lean to hard, you will easily pass the power needed to keep that motor spinning.

If the tilt back is steep enough, it will be impossible to ignore. Its not possible to continue leaning at 35kph when your pedals are tilted say by 30 + degrees.

i dont think a different kind of beep would make  a pivotal difference. It would be good to have but in conjuction with tiltback. No beep alone will hold off the daring people for too long once they try to go above that speed and not fall, they will start feeling more comfortable and will grow complacent and will push beyong that limit eventually. The only real fool proof measure is one that make it impossible to ride faster and right now i dont see anything better in that regard than the tiltback.

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22 minutes ago, Cloud said:

If the tilt back is steep enough, it will be impossible to ignore. Its not possible to continue leaning at 35kph when your pedals are tilted say by 30 + degrees.

i dont think a different kind of beep would make  a pivotal difference. It would be good to have but in conjuction with tiltback. No beep alone will hold off the daring people for too long once they try to go above that speed and not fall, they will start feeling more comfortable and will grow complacent and will push beyong that limit eventually. The only real fool proof measure is one that make it impossible to ride faster and right now i dont see anything better in that regard than the tiltback.

Yes, very true people will always push the limits and you can't rely on audible alarms only

The tilt back on my cheap tg f3 works great and you really have to try hard to go past it. Not only does it tilt back but it also causes you to slow down from the jolt back

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  • 2 weeks later...

They should get rid of the audio alarms entirely. They are a nuisance, specially to pedestrians! A properly implemented tilt-back is all that's necessary. However, I don't know if any company has perfected the art of tilt-back. I'd say it still needs plenty more fine-tuning.

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3 hours ago, edwin_rm said:

They should get rid of the audio alarms entirely. They are a nuisance, specially to pedestrians! A properly implemented tilt-back is all that's necessary. However, I don't know if any company has perfected the art of tilt-back. I'd say it still needs plenty more fine-tuning.

I don't think any company has perfected the tilt-back either. Some brands tilt back way too far and some barely tilt at all. What they need to do is program the EU with a limiter which will automatically slow you down once you hit their engineered max speed and/or voltage drain limit. This will prevent riders from forcing a over speed cutout and keep the motor spinning. In addition to this they need to have a fail-safe system which allows the wheel to slowly bring the EU to a stop if any of the components fail instead of a face plant to ground. Once these safety feature are implemented, only then will I feel safe riding these EU's

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I believe there should be alarms as having a few levels of safety notifications is beneficial. But they should be customizable so riders can choose what works for them. I for one like a have 1 speed beep 1-2 km before the tilback kicks in, as i want to be warned that the tiktback is coming and not be caught by surprise. Tiltback is the last resort. Also it gives me frame of reference - sometimes i ride and wonder..hey i seem to be riding kinda fast, where is the tilt back? What if the wheel is malfunctioning and i am already goingg faster than i should? Beeps give me a frame of reference. Now, i only want 1 level of beeping. Having 2 or 3 levels is counterproductive as you know you can go faster than 1st or 2nd but can easily confuse which one is which. Just one customizible beep level and one customizable ( but not above a certain factory set limit) tiltback is the best protection so far.

i dont see how it would be possible to make the wheel slow down....wouldnt it fail to keep the rider in balance then...it will cause the rider to fall

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32 minutes ago, Cloud said:

I believe there should be alarms as having a few levels of safety notifications is beneficial. But they should be customizable so riders can choose what works for them. I for one like a have 1 speed beep 1-2 km before the tilback kicks in, as i want to be warned that the tiktback is coming and not be caught by surprise. Tiltback is the last resort. Also it gives me frame of reference - sometimes i ride and wonder..hey i seem to be riding kinda fast, where is the tilt back? What if the wheel is malfunctioning and i am already goingg faster than i should? Beeps give me a frame of reference. Now, i only want 1 level of beeping. Having 2 or 3 levels is counterproductive as you know you can go faster than 1st or 2nd but can easily confuse which one is which. Just one customizible beep level and one customizable ( but not above a certain factory set limit) tiltback is the best protection so far.

i dont see how it would be possible to make the wheel slow down....wouldnt it fail to keep the rider in balance then...it will cause the rider to fall

Everything in the wheel is controlled by the CPU on the board  which is basically code telling the the components to do this if this or this happens. so its can be programmed to slow down if say you hit 32km/h or if the voltage drain on the motor reaches <40%. No, because the programmer would take this into count as well. It is similar to how car manufacturers put governors and speed limiters on cars. I know this by experience!! =0) If I am going 150mph per hour in my car and technically it can go faster, this puts a lot of heat and stress on the motor because the oil starts breaking down and keeping the metal parts lubricated. I wont go anymore into detail on that, that is another discussion for a mechanic forum. Anyways the bottom line is the manufacturer electronically limits the speed and the CPU lowers the speed to a non-detrimental speed, hence keep you the driver from having your motor blow up or having your pistons fly out from too many revs. So, this is totally possible. We aren't talking about rock science. Think of it as a TESLA. They have speed limiters/governor on their cars.

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7 minutes ago, NevNutz said:

Everything in the wheel is controlled by the CPU on the board  which is basically code telling the the components to do this if this or this happens. so its can be programmed to slow down if say you hit 32km/h or if the voltage drain on the motor reaches <40%. No, because the programmer would take this into count as well. It is similar to how car manufacturers put governors and speed limiters on cars. I know this by experience!! =0) If I am going 150mph per hour in my car and technically it can go faster, this puts a lot of heat and stress on the motor because the oil starts breaking down and keeping the metal parts lubricated. I wont go anymore into detail on that, that is another discussion for a mechanic forum. Anyways the bottom line is the manufacturer electronically limits the speed and the CPU lowers the speed to a non-detrimental speed, hence keep you the driver from having your motor blow up or having your pistons fly out from too many revs. So, this is totally possible. We aren't talking about rock science. Think of it as a TESLA. They have speed limiters/governor on their cars.

This is not what i was saying. Of course its possible to program the wheel to slow down, but what will happen then? The rider will fall off the wheel. If you lean forward and instead of accelerating the wheel slows down, it means it cant keep me upright, its no longer working as a self balancing wheel.

in cars you have 4 wheels to rest on.

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2 minutes ago, NevNutz said:

They can implement it in many ways without you falling off the wheel. When you u go fast, does the tilt back through you off your wheel? Come on, let's be real, if it did, manufacturers would not have used it. And they can implement all three in combination if they really wanted to.

Why would tilt back throw me off the wheel? Tiltback changes the angle of the foot rests, but the wheel still reacts to the lean the same way it does before the tiltback, the wheel balances you out. The second the wheel starts slowing down, accelerating or changing its speed in any other way not per your lean but per any other input from a controller, the rider will fall off it. And falling at that speed he wont be able to land on his feet

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1 hour ago, Cloud said:

Why would tilt back throw me off the wheel? Tiltback changes the angle of the foot rests, but the wheel still reacts to the lean the same way it does before the tiltback, the wheel balances you out. The second the wheel starts slowing down, accelerating or changing its speed in any other way not per your lean but per any other input from a controller, the rider will fall off it. And falling at that speed he wont be able to land on his feet

What kind of a lean are you doing at max speed? Your not tilted at 45 degrees. You should only be tilted a couple degrees at high speeds. And your tilting should be gradual. You shouldn't be doing any drastic leaning after you reach 18km/h. Your pushing way too much juice in such a small time frame through the motor. 

By the wheel slowing down at close to max speed, you won't fall off. Have you ever been to the max speed right before the motor cuts out? I'm talking about gradually get to max speed right before cutout. Not pushing the wheel to max speed as fast as you can. The wheel started to to slow down and you can feel the pedal dip forward. It still had enough power to keep the wheel up right without cutting out. I pulled back immediately and I knew that I was so close to a cutout. That's because the motor didn't have enough voltage to sustain the speed.  Once I felt the wheel giving under me, I easied off the pedals. I didn't fall off the wheel how you described the second the wheel start slowing down the rider will fall off. I've heard of other riders experiencing the same experience as I have. Maybe you haven't experienced this yet. 

I think you are thinking of the manufacturer implementating a governor as a fast slow down. If they did that then yes, you will fall off for sure, sudden change in momentum. But if it's gradual, momentum won't have enough force to keep pushing your body forward. Then again, this will matter based on the size of the rider and the speed I guess.

But getting back to your original thought though, and let me rephrase it, you should fall off once the wheel starts to gradually slow down. Maybe if do a huge lean and hit the max speed within serveral second then yea you will face plant either way. Those guys that do that are just asking for it. 

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14 hours ago, NevNutz said:

What kind of a lean are you doing at max speed? Your not tilted at 45 degrees. You should only be tilted a couple degrees at high speeds. And your tilting should be gradual. You shouldn't be doing any drastic leaning after you reach 18km/h. Your pushing way too much juice in such a small time frame through the motor. 

By the wheel slowing down at close to max speed, you won't fall off. Have you ever been to the max speed right before the motor cuts out? I'm talking about gradually get to max speed right before cutout. Not pushing the wheel to max speed as fast as you can. The wheel started to to slow down and you can feel the pedal dip forward. It still had enough power to keep the wheel up right without cutting out. I pulled back immediately and I knew that I was so close to a cutout. That's because the motor didn't have enough voltage to sustain the speed.  Once I felt the wheel giving under me, I easied off the pedals. I didn't fall off the wheel how you described the second the wheel start slowing down the rider will fall off. I've heard of other riders experiencing the same experience as I have. Maybe you haven't experienced this yet. 

I think you are thinking of the manufacturer implementating a governor as a fast slow down. If they did that then yes, you will fall off for sure, sudden change in momentum. But if it's gradual, momentum won't have enough force to keep pushing your body forward. Then again, this will matter based on the size of the rider and the speed I guess.

But getting back to your original thought though, and let me rephrase it, you should fall off once the wheel starts to gradually slow down. Maybe if do a huge lean and hit the max speed within serveral second then yea you will face plant either way. Those guys that do that are just asking for it. 

At max speed your lean is already the maximum lean! You dont do drastic  additional leaning at high speed but you 're already leaning as much as possible..

Sometimes, to make a clear point, one has to generalize. I said that the second the wheel's speed is not controlled by the lean but by some other means, the rider will fall. Ok yhe rider will not fall 100% of the time. Yes, it is possible that an experienced rider will somehow manage to stay on the wheel, but you cant count on that. Yes if you slow down gradually the probability of the rider falling decreases, but its still there and its high. This behavior is against the whole concept of the self balancing wheel. by slowing the wheel down we would be creating a dangerous situation that can cause the rider to fall with high probability. 

I ride at top speeds all the time, but ive never had the wheel give out. A few times when i accelerated the power wasnt sufficient and the wheel was a bit unstabke and i felt that it was a miracle i stayed on it.

in your exampke when the wheel started giving out under you, you pulled back and the wheel returned to the balnced condition. So when you started falling, you pulled back and the wheel was able to catch you and continue going. What you are suggesting is a continuous condition of instability by slowing down for a period of time. You wont be able to stay on the wheel if its continues for whatever period of time.

i dont understand how slowing down would be a better solution than tiktback. When tiltback kicks in the rider is forced to lean back and as such slow down the wheel by his leaning

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 19. 1. 2016 at 3:43 PM, THEhiddenALEX said:

Also is the gotway msuper water resistant? If i were to take it through slushy snow or puddles of water will it break? 

Because I did that with my TG F3 mini and everything got soaked in water lol

20151227_115520.jpg

NO, it is not.

When you want to go offroad or in the rain, you should adjust your unicycle before.

I did it with acrylic sealant.

Battery and electronics covers are sealed too.

IMG_0040.thumb.JPG.8711d522d448cad490199

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