pirelli angel PIrelli Angel 80/80/14 review on Veteran Sherman

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@supercurio and @gon2fast   provoked me to do this. I had ZERO intentions of upgrading the sheman rim or tire. I had no issues from the v1 rim and the offroad tire is GREAT! I can't forget to also blame @RetroThruster for pointing out that I seem to be a street demon primarily and perhaps a street tire would suit. @Dennis Hagov also provoked me with well recieved advice.

Just got a few minutes for an INITIAL opinion of the tire. So far, I am quite pleaased.

1) its so quiet!

2) the sound of tiny rocks on pavement. The tire is sticky and tiny rocks get tossed around. This is a GOOD thing, as it indicates I have a nice tacky compound for traction on pavement. Gravel seems loud as the tire is so quiet otherwise. Even brand new, tacky and inspires confidence.

3) at higher pressure (35-45psi), it takes off like a rocket and needed much less rider input than the offroad. It also stopped exactly as I would suspect.

4)Smooth with no hop or vibration up to 30mph. I havent had a chance to go full send, but it was stable and smooth at 30mph and no wobble during 'hard' braking.

5)It simply feels planted. Its not a matter of feeling all the vibrations in the road (you dont), it just a mere solid planted feeling.  As if the tire was simply firmly on the ground and you can just FEEL the contact patch sticking/rolling along smoothly. Like the feel of a good warm racing slick... planted.

6)Not quite as soft. It didnt 'boing' at 35psi, but it didnt soak up the bumps either. Of course, Im 130lbs and dont ride 35psi. Once lowered to 20psi, I lost a little bit of that sensitivity to rider input, but got back a soft ride. It didnt feel washy at lower psi, simply less responsive and more comfortable. During the hop hop hop, test, I would say it feels 5psi harder than the offroad at a given pressure. I dropped it to 15psi and it gained more plush feel, but began to feel sluggish. I found 20psi to be the answer. I ride the offroad at 20psi. The angel at 20psi is a little 'harder' than the OffRoad at 20psi, but more of a solid bounce than an unpredictable one. I found it didnt continue to bounce at all, so the little bumps were a one and done w/o carryover. The OR tire seemed to like to bounce less, but settle later. Neither  tire seeem to be a jarring hit at these pressures. The angel does instill more confidence that a hard hit would be mitigated and protect the rim better, at same or lower pressure than the OR tire. I could easily see running 15psi without issue.

7)You aint gna belive this, so Ill skip it, go to 8 and tell you anyhow.

8)More stable slow/low/no speed. Even mounting the wheel was smooth. I gained a year of skill in a simple tire change. I went from sketchy and tolerable starting, to ease like it was my ks18L. I dont understand it, as the profile is more narrow.

9)You aint gna believe it so we'll skip to double digits as thats more credible.

10) 180 turnarounds, 360 on a dime, easily same lane.  Stop and go... ALL easier and less pedal scrape. I have NO idea why, as my pedals should be 'lower' now. Because of the profile, turn arounds with MAJOR wheel lean, are predictable! My old OR tire had a habit of going a little unpredictable at no speed 180's and kind of liked to fall over too far on me. Rider error I'm sure, but I dont suffer this on the angel. When you lean it WAY over, it just keeps doing what you would expect. End result... playing around more like its a nimble wheel and ENJOYING turning around now. 

11) No opinion on gyro effect at speed. I havent ridden it thru turns at speed enough to comment on the 30mph+ gyro effect. I did notice that if you play with low speed 180's and dont commit to the turn, it will try to right itself very easily. Maybe the OR tire just liked to stay leaned once it reached a certain point, and the angel doesnt have this habit? I just know that once you dedicate to the slow speed lean and put faith in the linear response of the profile, the angel works great. I'll have to go on a proper ride at speed to evaluate its turning response. So far it seems to be similar to the OR in terms of rider input needed, but perhaps more predictable? I'll expand on this once I have any REAL experience with it.

12)It looks badass...

13)Up to operating temperature quickly. This surprised me. After just a couple miles of <25mph speeds on cold asphalt, I noted the tire was quite warm and coming up to temp nicely. Hell yes! Those of us who have ridden bikes KNOW how great a tire does when it comes to temps. I'd suspect that 200lbs on 1 tire at sustained 30mph, will get this tire to stick like glue! I havent time to check if it eats itself at sustained high speeds on hot asphalt. Lets hope it doesn't cross over into TOO hot, but I doubt it will.

14)Tolerable on grass. I cant say if its great or not on grass, but i did ride thru my yard and it didnt slip. This is the same yard that my mten doesnt like. I'll have to ride around until I slip and fall off in the grass, to comment much further. I also have ZERO opinion on offroad traction, tho I will collect data on that soon. I doubt it will be very good, honestly.

15)Its only $40. I didnt care about the cost. I was quite shocked to find it so cheap. It could have been double the price and I wouldnt have worrried. For a mere $40, it runs damn true, and I can't see it wearing out very quickly at all. Fwiw, China owns 40% of Pirelli now, go figure!

16) The tire itself came true, overnight (revzilla) and was stupid easy to mount!

17) Chicken strips. Even already, I am utilizing nearly the entire profile of the tire. There won't be any chicken strips for dinner soon!

17)I am keeping it and am VERY excited about it. I have my old tire and will change back if I EVER think the angel is not performing. For now, its just a win win win for my riding preferences. Unless I encounter instability at max speeds, I can't fathom switching back. For you off road riders, this doesnt apply.

And there you have it. Somehow a 'harder' and 'shorter' tire, is enabling me to control the wheel and NOT scrape pedals near as easily. I was worried about it being too hard, but tire pressure variances and how it responds to them, mitigates that worry. I think the 80/80/14 size IS the proper size for my needs. Tho it's 13mm (or so) shorter and 3mm wider, it doesnt act like you would suspect, based on those values alone. Pedal dip is pretty bad. This is a failing of the wheel, and i think its worse because I am IN FACT turning around faster and acting more irradic in how I CHOOSE to ride it. Now that I CAN flip around smoothly much easier, i AM. This relates to even more pedal dip, tho the way the tire behaves so well, pedal dip isnt nearly as unmanageable.

I hope to get a more thorough idea of the tire, once I suit up and 'fly' to the local gas station. SO far, I have little worry that it won't perform as expected. Hopefully I'll have a boring video to capture my further testing/rides.

Shameless plug.. Anyone need an euc themed t-shirt with their own logo or color/image ideas? How about one designed by MY scatter brain? Or maybe you just want to chase my affiliate link to ewheels and get your own wheel? Cmon, do it, what are you waiting for?

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Planemo]

Really appreciate this feedback Shane 

I am surprised, but glad, that the MC tyre hasn't seemed to have increased the harshness beyond acceptable levels. I appreciate that this is subjective but it's good to hear your thoughts. Pics and/or video please!

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

10) 180 turnarounds, 360 on a dime, easily same lane.  Stop and go... ALL easier and less pedal scrape. I have NO idea why, as my pedals should be 'lower' now.

You’re comparing the tire to a knobby, which all are side fallers. I mean, they need to be tilted more than solid tires for turning, and some even feel like they would fall to the side if not held up by the rider.

I don’t know the actual reason for the knobby behavior, but so far it seems that without a solid center section a tire is simply lazy to turn on an EUC . Maybe the turning behavior we’ve grown to expect simply requires a solid rubber section at the center of the tire for the physics to work.

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1 minute ago, mrelwood said:

You’re comparing the tire to a knobby, which all are side fallers. I mean, they need to be tilted more than solid tires for turning, and some even feel like they would fall to the side if not held up by the rider.

I don’t know the actual reason for the knobby behavior, but so far it seems that without a solid center section a tire is simply lazy to turn on an EUC . Maybe the turning behavior we’ve grown to expect simply requires a solid rubber section at the center of the tire for the physics to work.

Nail on the head. The knobby profile must not be what I am expecting in tire response. It behaves more like a motorcycle now. I think I may be underestimating how FAR over we lean at times, especially low speed. This would explain why I kept nearly falling down while attempting 180's at a crawl. I was surprised to see how I've already used nearly the entire profile. Much more similar to a road bike. To be fair tho,  my dirtbike has knobbies WITH an actual profile too.

[supercurio]

Nice, excellent review so far @ShanesPlanet!

It really helps that you have motorcycle experience as well in order to evaluate the tire.

While some of the riding characteristics would likely be gained VS the knobby with another street tire (like the Kenda K340 OEM street tire), maybe not all of them or to the same extent?

It would certainly be interesting to compare to other street tires on V2 rims.

I think @Willy510 tried a bunch.

BTW I'm sure that you would also appreciate the K262 knobby behavior better on the wider V2 rim, like I did (easier control at low speed, less falling off the side in turns)

I'm looking forward to your impressions on slight off-road and higher speeds as well after some more time with it.

The compound should get even more grippy once it develops a mate texture instead of the original shine.

But already, it's really promising; I had concerns about the tire rigidity especially for a lighter rider. It doesn't seem to be too much of an issue then! Probably the Sherman weight helps here, and your willingness to go low enough in tire pressure.

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I could easily see running 15psi without issue.

One issue you might have with such low pressures is the tire slipping on the rim. It will take the tube with it and tear it around the valve. I wouldn’t go below 20 psi on a tubed wheel under any circumstances, and even below 25 only with great care and constant pressure monitoring.

[fbhb]

Great write up Shane and glad you are already thoroughly enjoying the New set up.  Will be looking out for more details as and when you update your ongoing thoughts in the various riding situations you mention are still to come!

[RagingGrandpa]

On 5/6/2021 at 4:09 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

 

 

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@RagingGrandpa careful what you ask for.. This should keep me caught up for a while...

Don't do drugs....MMkay

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[enaon]

On 5/7/2021 at 1:07 PM, mrelwood said:

One issue you might have with such low pressures is the tire slipping on the rim. It will take the tube with it and tear it around the valve. I wouldn’t go below 20 psi on a tubed wheel under any circumstances, and even below 25 only with great care and constant pressure monitoring.

Not sure if it applies on the sherman, but on the s18 the pirelli is not a tight fit, running at pressures lower that 20, with the tire being so stiff, I would worry  about the tire getting off the rim on a big impact. 

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4 hours ago, enaon said:

Not sure if it applies on the sherman, but on the s18 the pirelli is not a tight fit, running at pressures lower that 20, with the tire being so stiff, I would worry  about the tire getting off the rim on a big impact. 

Thanks for the info. I didnt notice the angel being overly tight when mounting. It wasnt loose enough that I really worried, but it wasnt the worst to put on by far. I didnt remove my stock tire from my v1 rim, so i can't compare how tight it seemed. I was running my knobby on the v1 rim at 20psi and didnt have an issue. Fingers crossed, I won't with this setup either. For now, it seems that 20psi is MY magic number for the sherm on either tire I use. ONly one way to find out  "FULL SEND"! Now if the 40mph winds would settle and the sun stay out, I could go test the theory. Hopefully the only big impacts my tire sees, is minor holes at speed and maybe the impact of when it decides to run my ass over. Im a light guy, I absorb with the knees, but sometimes you just get caught off guard too.

Edited May 8, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[enaon]

18 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

For now, it seems that 20psi is MY magic number for the sherm on either tire I use

Nice, I too believe that 20 is a good number, I run mine at 30, but it needs suspension I think. Looking forward to your tests at speeds higher that 30mph and no suspension on the Pirelli. 

[gon2fast]

Question - is that a VW Beetle Sheriff crusier in your pics?

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1 hour ago, gon2fast said:

Question - is that a VW Beetle Sheriff crusier in your pics?

Yup. I serviced and aligned and did suspension work on some of the LEO county vehicles in our private shop. I also worked on the undercover cars. The county garage wasn't exactly stellar for certain repairs/maintenance. There were a few times I had to burnout test a cruiser's car tires in the local drive thru. You know, in the interests of data collection and testing of course. Lived just south of Bristol Speedway at the time too. Lotsa race-car magic happening, cash only no warranty. I put in 8 yrs or so there, with a dealership break in the middle. Eventually it was just time to go. They closed shortly after. Man, I have had a GREAT life

Edited May 9, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

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[Dreygun]

@ShanesPlanet looking at your pic, it looks like your pirelli is mounted oppostie way from all the pics I see of the tire alone. Which is correct way?? I got the tire in for my s18. Wheel is so new I'm tempted to hold off the swap until stock tire is worn tho, but I'll still need to know correct orientation to run the tread. 

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38 minutes ago, Dreygun said:

@ShanesPlanet looking at your pic, it looks like your pirelli is mounted oppostie way from all the pics I see of the tire alone. Which is correct way?? I got the tire in for my s18. Wheel is so new I'm tempted to hold off the swap until stock tire is worn tho, but I'll still need to know correct orientation to run the tread. 

I explain the reasoning of my decision in the direction along with the motor orientation starting at here.  https://youtu.be/mns_lXmT2X4?t=571  There's a LOT of information that justifies either direction, so I chalk it up to mere preferance.

@yuweng may find this usefull?

[Dreygun]

@ShanesPlanet ah thanks

[enaon]

16 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I explain the reasoning of my decision in the direction along with the motor orientation starting at here.  https://youtu.be/mns_lXmT2X4?t=571  There's a LOT of information that justifies either direction, so I chalk it up to mere preferance.

@yuweng may find this usefull?

Just a comment on your thoughts on water channels usage:

If you place it the way the arrow tells you, the other way than you did, then water gets away to the sides and back. The instant the center part touches the surface, the side grooves should be behind it, so water can be forced backwards and to the sides. 
 

Edited May 14, 2021 by enaon

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7 hours ago, enaon said:

Just a comment on your thoughts on water channels usage:

If you place it the way the arrow tells you, the other way than you did, then water gets away to the sides and back. The instant the center part touches the surface, the side grooves should be behind it, so water can be forced backwards and to the sides. 
 

https://www.freeasestudyguides.com/directional-tires-explained.html

I think you may have that backwards. If i mount it the OTHER direction from the way I have, THEN the center grooves will follow behind the side channel while rolling forwards. This typically causes water (and air) to be pressed towards the center(squish area). Behind as in: after or second. 'behind' is confusing statement, as the tire is rolling forwards. It may be easier to think of it as a matter of time rather than location.

http://sgbikerboy.com/2016/12/26/why-do-motorcycle-front-and-rear-tires-have-opposite-tread-patterns/

Pirelli was focusing on wear pattern and loading during braking for the front tire directional choice. Feathering and cupping is a MAJOR concern for motorcycle tires. Failing to address those issue will undermine ALL other traction efforts. My tire isnt going on a motorcycle, so the PRIMARY concerns that Pirelli was mitigating thru choosing tire direction, is moot and does not apply to a single wheeled vehicle. Of note, the REAR angel tire is directional in the manner we would expect. Maybe my reasoning wasnt clear in my video. Of course, FREE information isnt required to be thorough. Rear tire.. note direction :

 

 

 

 

 

 

I could be wrong, but over a decade in the industry and mulitple certifications, have trained me to think otherwise. I never did get certified in ANY single wheeled vehicle operations however. Either way, its done now, its passed my ride check and you just can't teach an old dog new tricks.. To be fair, this is one of those old debates that may never end. Just like types of oil and should you mount tires backwards for mud. At the end of the day, I made the executive decision and on ShanesPlanet, we call that 'good as gospel'.

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[enaon]

2 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

If i mount it the OTHER direction from the way I have, THEN the center grooves will follow behind the side channel while rolling forwards.

Try to think it over a bit, what you say is correct, the center groove must follow behind, so that the moment it touches the floor, and water it pressed in the groove, it can be channeled back and out, else it will be sprayed in front of you. 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by enaon

[Dreygun]

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29 minutes ago, enaon said:

I too have a long family tradition in bike tires, I leave a foto for anyone that can identify the elephants

Try to think it over a bit, what you say is correct, the center groove must follow behind, so that the moment it touches the floor, and water it pressed in the groove, it can be channeled back and out, else it will sprayed in front of you. 

This is called "squish area". You do NOT want water to be channeled into an area where it needs change opposite direction to eventually escape. You want the channels to direct it to the sides, unimpeded. Its not 'in front' of you, if its to the sides.  I DID NOT say the center groove must follow behind. The center groove needs hit first and the side sipes will direct water AWAY from the center.  Feel free to show me references to solidify your claim about water and how tire design accomodates it. Pirelli choose this direction for the front, as they felt wear and handling was more important as it pertains to a motorcycle. My euc is not a motorcycle. My single tire takes all the traction for braking and accel, unlike a motorcycle. I am also not applying more weight to the back tire than the front during cruise. Pireli's decision is obviously based on more than just water shed ability. One only has to look and see that they choose to mount front and rear opposite of each other. If their decision was based merely on 'hydroplane' worries, they would have mounted them both the same direction. I ran my sport bikes for years, and they used to suggest them be mounted same front and back. I had great rain traction while draggin knees, yet i also suffered cupping wear of the front tire. I cared not about cupping, as I balled the rubber up on those tires LONG before it became a mitigating factor. What I DID care about MOST, was wet traction on narrow mountain roads at speed on a 1100cc sport bike, in the rain, by myself and no phone .

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[enaon]

The image above does not apply to bike tyres, it is for cars, where all the surface touches the floor, the center groove serves as a water release channel in that image, apples and oranges. Bikes are using the center only, but I guess a test in a rainy day will solve it all. If you don't see water sprayed in front of you, you made it look better

Edited May 14, 2021 by enaon

[enaon]

14 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

What I DID care about MOST, was wet traction on narrow mountain roads at speed on a 1100cc sport bike, in the rain, by myself and no phone .

just as a side note, we are alike, I too liked riding on the mountains on my 1000cc, no phone too, no helmet either. Past lives, now we are arguing about euc tyres of forums.