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I ran across a Youtube station called Chooch tech about 2 weeks ago and was super impressed.  I had no idea such a powerful  and nimble self balancing vehicle was available.  Maybe I need to get out more, but was doing my share for the COVID cause.  I've had insomnia for the last three night after watching mostly EUC reviews, tips, learning to ride videos, etc.

I've clocked in hundreds of hours on an older model Segway after teaching visitors at a science museum to ride, so I at least have a decent concept of how these things work.  Clearly much more skill is required to master an EUC.  I am prone to do I research like crazy before buying a new toy or tool.  

This is where I have arrived so far.  For me I see the logic of a lower end EUC to make my mistakes on and make sure it is a good fit for me as a hobby.  A small one would also come in handy if I wanted to teach a friend so I would not be overly protective of a pricier more capable model and have a second machine for a riding partner.  There is not many options in the under a thousand category so realize my budget may need to be increased.

Obviously I can start by ruling out powerful heavy "professional" models aka Veteran Sherman.  I have heard time and again Gotway has poor build quality, so not real inclined to support a company that does not take pride in designing and building a quality product.  Inmotion seems to have a reasonable reputation but why do they insist on putting all those silly blinky lights and shinny plastic that is just bound to take a beating from a new rider.  Can those lights be turned off?  I really like the styling and shocks on the King Song S18 and think I could get some use out of that feature out here in the country but that one is hardly a starter machine.

If any one feels like sharing some words of wisdom on this topic I am open ears.  

My preferred specs would be to comfortably run in the low 20's mph without beeps.  I'm about 160 pounds by the way.  If it tuckers out on reasonable hills that is a non-starter.  I can forgo extensive range if that helps moderate the price.  Compared to a Segway, EUC's are leaps and bounds better on range.

Obviously it is a slippery slope to stay out of the $1500 to $2000 range.       

 

 

    

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CarlW said:

Obviously it is a slippery slope to stay out of the $1500 to $2000 range.

You don't have to spend that much on a EUC, but the almost-top end is where you get the most bang for the buck. So it's natural to end up buying such a performance wheel right away.

A few reasons why, which are often based on the technology how EUCs work and the implications of that:

  • EUCs need a motor, board, shell, etc. no matter the variable parts (mostly battery size). So twice the battery size/performance doesn't cost twice as much, but less.
  • The stronger and more powerful a EUC is, the safer it is. Because you do the same, but have more reserves. (Unless you have little self-control and you speed as much as it will allow you to and go too fast, then it's not safer.) So that can be a reason to buy a "big and bad" wheel right away.
  • It's cheaper if you only buy one wheel that has the range and speed you will ultimately want, instead of a cheaper one and then the expensive one.

The important thing is to trust your intuition and go for the wheel you just kind of want. Often one of the candidates is special in that way, you just know. That's the one you should choose.

1 hour ago, CarlW said:

I really like the styling and shocks on the King Song S18 and think I could get some use out of that feature out here in the country but that one is hardly a starter machine.

I believe the S18 is a fantastic starter machine. Not too fast or crazy specs, nice features (suspension!), good looks - unless you find it too expensive, why not?

It may be off-putting to learn on a wheel that is simply very heavy (*cough* Sherman *cough*). The S18 is on the lighter side of the current lineup.

Also, in doubt a bigger tire diameter makes a wheel more sluggish and less instantly-responsive. I think smaller tire diameters may be nicer to enjoy the fun of EUCing and to learn. Unfortunately, the latest wheel models are all 18 inchers (nearly 20 in real life) and the 16 inchers and smaller are older models. That's just how it happens to be right now. But the Inmotion V12 (16 inch, almost 18 in real life with the wide tire, like the 16X or Nikola) is coming and might be a great wheel for you.

Also don't shy back of used wheels, especially for learning. Or just because you get a lot for your money compared to a new wheel. If you buy a learner/secondary wheel first, I'd buy something used.

But since you seem to like the S18 and mentioned it, why not an S18?

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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Posted (edited)

I think I’ve run across only 1 or 2 people that didn’t like the KS16x, especially as a learner you don’t mind keeping around. It was my pick, and has faithfully taken all the punishment with zero problems and is quite good at everything. Its only “fault” is that you shouldn’t spend much time above 28mph, that’s its redline.

I ride with a couple people that started on V11s and except for the nagging worry about hollow bearings and minor range anxiety (minor, and kind of unfounded actually) they are 100% satisfied with their choice.

I too would advised starting with used, and just plan to sell it so you don’t care about specs and looks. You won’t know if you’re a chooch trail boss, a pico dancer, a wrongway stair mobber, or AJ Foyt until you outgrow your learner. THEN you can get specific and get a second that is aligned with your style.

If you do go with something new that you intend to keep, know that you’ll still be shopping for its stable mate in 6 months, tops. There is no jab for this disease.

Edited by Tawpie
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Can offer a perspective from a beginner with just a couple hundred miles under my belt. Was in your shoes pretty recently. I bought a KS16x new. It has been a good wheel to start out with for sure. Very durable, manageable size, but still decently capable assuming you are ok with the speed cap (that's really a longer-term issue anyway...early on feels very fast). Also, found having a really good trolley handle hugely valuable early in the process - any time I was uncomfortable with a situation, very easy to stop and walk. Not something I had focused on. 

Though I didn't follow it, the recommendations on buying used for a first wheel is definitely good advice. This is partly because you will drop the wheel a lot in the earliest stages - though my 16x with roll.nz cover actually came through that first stage in great shape despite the drops (again, pretty durable). But the key reason for buying used is because you won't really know what you like and how you intend to use it until you have some experience. The 16x still covers my needs right now, but already sure I will be upgrading one way or another within the year. A used 16x in decent shape would have made more sense.

I have no basis for comparison, so won't go too far in commenting on other potential wheels to start out with. I will say I had considered buying the S18 or v11 thinking those wheels are what I would eventually want. I didn't mainly because I heard suspension not great for beginners. I honestly don't know if that is actually true - no doubt some have started with those wheels just fine. But will say, now with some experience and based on the riding I am now see myself as likely to do, those wheels would no longer be my ideal next choice. Which goes back to buying something with the intention of it only being your starter wheel, realizing you will figure out what you really want after giving it a try for a while.

Oh and on the KS16x at least, all the crazy lights can be turned off. 

One more beginner tip I didn't follow - find a way to protect your shins / inner ankles. That first week I got some serious bruises from the pedals.

 

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Posted (edited)

18xl, 16x or Gotway Nikola+100v, the Nik is a proven wheel by now so I'd feel good about it, and it's faaaasssttt, only issue with it is if you're a small guy, it might take a few to get used to how wide it is between the calves.

Edited by RetroThruster
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Hey guys. I started with a V8 for a year and a half. Then the Loomo 2.66kWh Nik+. Now an EX. The EX is definitely not a beginner wheel. But the Nik+ could be. I loved my Loomo Nik+. I think, except for the almost 3 month wait to receive, the Loomo Nik+ is one of the best wheels for the money. There are newer wheels that I may not know though. The EX.N seems popular. I weigh around 160 pounds and have no trouble with any of my wheels. The 30# V8, 65# Nik+, or the almost 90# EX. The only trouble I have of late is the really high pedal height of the EX. But I'm getting used to it. I finally got to ride the EX with the seat today. Now to learn the EX seat riding style. If I had only one wheel, it would be the 2.66 kWh Nik+. Perfect...NO. Almost perfect for me...YES. The EX is a monster to me. A good monster though. I'll be fishing out my Nik next week with the help of the marina and a local diver. Restoring the Nik will be my next project. I may restore the Nik as a normal Nik+ as parts are probably easier to find and get. I expect no electronics had made it from the drowning. Shell, tire, tube, handle, etc., are probably the only salvageable parts. Then I'l have three wheels. Peace from Maine USA...Guy

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Posted (edited)

@CarlW You are about 150 miles from me. If you were so inclined, I could meet you somewhere near ME, and I'd be happy to let you try a couple of mine. Well, as happy as I usually am. Of course, thats a hell of a drive to visit MY dumb ass. I also may be a warped opinion and youll have to decide if I'm who you want to introduce you to this. I don't have much a wheel collection, but I've a couple flavors to give you an idea of it all. I'd be willing to give you bad advice and perhaps some minor wheel injuries too!  Aside from the drive, itll cost you a beer and a sandwich. I dont require masks, but I'm not a hugger. If you still have a segway, bring it and we can go try get run over together...:blink1:

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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Thanks everyone for your advice and feedback.  It is great to see how active and responsive this forum is.  If I was going to check into used equipment, is this forum the best place keep track of what is being offered or is there some other hot spot for used equipment?

Shanesplanet I really appreciate your offer for a visit.  If I did make the drive, rest assured I would never ask a stranger to let me try out their expensive equipment.  Seeing the EUC's in person ridden by a rider with experience would be helpful.  I've been mostly sitting on my ass for the last year and all of a sudden work gigs are coming hot and heavy.  If things ease up later in the year I might consider a drive.  Maybe I'll have already taken the plunge by then and you could share some ridding tips on whatever option I end up going with.

Guy, I guess I missed the story of how your ride ended up in the drink.  Is that on another thread?

I have never owned a Segway they just had an older model where I worked.  The great thing about that model was that you could make a bootleg start up key that maxed out the speed to about 17 mph and would turn so rapidly you could manage to sling yourself off if you were not prepared.  That is not very fast for riding outside but in a large science museum if is pretty fast.   Since I had that job I had always wanted an off road model, but they are crazy expensive.  After seeing all the great EUC riders on YouTube with the speed and range they have I think Segways are probably going the way of the dinosaurs if they do not start pricing them more competitive.  

One feature where Segways dominate EUCs is braking.  I'll probably start another tread on that subject if I can not find a previous discussion.  On the juiced up Segway you could be zipping around at 17 mph and could come to a full stop in a matter of several feet by laying hard backwards.  Clearly EUC's don't have the steering post and handle bars to help you defy gravity.  To my knowledge this extreme braking did not damage the Segway because I did it for a number of years.            

 

  

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, CarlW said:

Thanks everyone for your advice and feedback.  It is great to see how active and responsive this forum is.  If I was going to check into used equipment, is this forum the best place keep track of what is being offered or is there some other hot spot for used equipment?

Shanesplanet I really appreciate your offer for a visit.  If I did make the drive, rest assured I would never ask a stranger to let me try out their expensive equipment.  Seeing the EUC's in person ridden by a rider with experience would be helpful.  I've been mostly sitting on my ass for the last year and all of a sudden work gigs are coming hot and heavy.  If things ease up later in the year I might consider a drive.  Maybe I'll have already taken the plunge by then and you could share some ridding tips on whatever option I end up going with.

My first used wheel came from ebay. I got VERY lucky as I had no idea what to look for, but I ended up buying from an honest person. I have purchased a couple wheels here. MOST of the known members here will likely know exacly what they are selling and what its worth. SO far, this has been a good place for my purchases also. When I want less worry and new, I patron e-wheels. I pay for the priveledge, but its worth the support and sometimes you just wanna be the one to inhale the radiation from a new wheel, first. Im an affiliate, so chase my link below to buy one and I get free shit. Im thinking candy, cigarettes, beer and euc parts...B)

My mtens were MADE for strangers to ride on, bust their asses and have me horse laugh about it.:lol: Don't deny them their lifelong goals. Its similar to refusing to turn a fat ass cow into beef jerky. Some things are just made to bring joy! Seriously tho, my mtens and the Ks18 are covered up and tough little buggers. I wouldnt offer if i was worried. Even if stuff breaks, it gets fixed or replaced, who cares? We can fix broken wheels, we cant get back a day of life compromised over a little hardware worries.  I can be as close as asheville, NC if you wanted to make the trek.

As for braking. I dont know how fast segways can stop, but you can bring some of these wheels to a halt in a hurry. Firmware differences allow us quite a bit of access to the power with meager input. Youd really have to step on one for a few minutes to get the idea of it all. Im sure its like a segway, but i also imagine these are somewhat 'performance' models in compare.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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I say get the wheel that you will want to ride when you are proficient, get a cover for it and learn to ride on grass (not turf). Rent/borrow a starter wheel, otherwise it is a waste of $$$.

 

IMHO 

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, gon2fast said:

get a cover for it and learn to ride on grass

Or skip the cover (saves $100+) and go straight to pavement. The ladies won’t care that your wheel looks like it lost a fight with a griz, the getup you’re in will have already established that ever so critical “he’s sooooooo cool” first impression. Unless it doesn’t of course.

works for me tho! But I drive a Model 3. Really! (sush now, it’s an ‘06 Mazda which sounds a ton like Tesla, and I don’t think that actually downvotes it)

Edited by Tawpie
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While there is a lot to appreciate in the idea of just buying what your intuition tells you, the fact is that for a beginner the looks tell nothing about anything important. But one method that is sure to serve you well is to narrow down the list a bit based on your needs, then ask here if some models should be left out as well, and then just pick the one you like the most.

Buying a beginner wheel works for some, less for others. Depending on what kind of a learner you are, you might not even have the wheel tumble on pavement one single time. I didn’t. But some people just go all in again and again until it all clicks. Their wheel can tumble a few dozen times during the first hour already.

 Buying any model that’s still being produced is good enough for your humble requirements. All of them have at least a good amount of power, at least a decent range, etc. Your preferences will start to form once you get to riding, and trying to predict them generally just doesn’t work.

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I guess I am a bit late to the game here. @CarlW I can understand your dilemma of picking the first wheel. This is tricky thing as you don't know yet what impact euc riding will have for you.

So here is the first "warning". It can be crazy fun and very convenient. It is very easy to get hooked on this and many have gotten a lifestyle change because of the. Myself included. 

Whatever direction you go just know this is unlikely to be your only wheel. How fast you want/need to upgrade depends on many factors. But speed cost at a cost and in the beginning it is dangerous as your instinct reacting will often not be beneficial. 

Buying used wheel is not my first recommendation. It is very hard to judge if the is a problem with a wheel and an incident could be very painful.

I might have missed it but I didn't see your size/weight. The more you weight the more power the motor and battery need.

So to wheels. I will refer to this as a toy/last mile/mobility/starter wheel. This is the Inmotion V8f. The benefit is is durable has option for a cheap cover. And light weight. But you are likely to outgrow it fast. This will give you an idea of what to look for on 2nd wheel.

Inmotion V10f is a step up. It does many thing good and is a bit overlooked. It is convenience and a bit more okey wheel for commuting purposes. 

Kingsong KS18L. Is is a cheaper version than the 18XL. But it come at the cost of range dude to lower battery size. 

Kingsong KS16x could be a candidate too but we are getting pricy now. But the biggest benefit is more battery for range (not speed) and the 3" wide tire. This makes it easier to learn on.

If there is no price limit I would go KS18XL without hesitation. It isn't a perfect wheel but it so good around wheel that it is a great backup for any other wheel you get later, except if you get suspension depended like me (I have very bad knees).

Wheels I would not get as a beginner is any suspension wheel at this stage. When learning suspension is another set of setting and things to adjust which is difficult to do when your still learning to get balanced. Down the line a suspension wheel.would make very much sense.

Sidenote: I have no GW/Begone experience as a rider. This is why I don't include them. It comes down to design philosophy that I do not agree upon. Others have different view on this.

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I am so happy I started on the wheel I did because I STILL can't justify getting rid of it. The Kingsong 16x. It had a bumpy launch but since then, I see riders with it all the time. 
I've taught 5 people to ride it. It has a nice handle too. Petals are not too low, battery is awesome too. The blinky lights also have a function, you don't need the app to get an idea of the battery because when the wheel stops, the leds light up to show you the level of the battery. I can't think of a wheel that is so feature packed and well balanced. 

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Hey Giffy. See you today at Kennebunk Farmers' Market at 1300. I'll have my EX and V8 with me in my red '94 Miata. Looks like nice weather today. I can't get rid of my V8 either. Beat up, yet keeps going strong. 

CarlW: I think I did a thread on losing my Nik+. I stupidly got spooked on a path next to a marina with a traffic cone. I got nervous and fell at a very low speed. I also have, myself, Tourette syndrome and ASD, T1D, etc. Like that marina fall, with Tourettes, sometimes, if I think it, it will happen. Sucks! I had just thought of falling and the wheel going in. Them it did. Again, SUCKS! I normally listen to music, typically dance music, to keep my focus on the wheel. This time, as a very rare time, I did not. That made me more susceptible to my difficulties. A doctor, therapist, and seller, advised me not to buy and ride an EUC because of my conditions. After almost 5k miles, I would say that I am doing alright! Not that I wanted to prove the neigh sayers wrong, yet to show them what's possible. Peace from Maine...Guy

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6 hours ago, Guy said:

A doctor, therapist, and seller, advised me not to buy and ride an EUC because of my conditions. After almost 5k miles, I would say that I am doing alright! Not that I wanted to prove the neigh sayers wrong, yet to show them what's possible. Peace from Maine...Guy

I would say euc riding is helping your condition. Never let neigh sayers dictate anything. Years ago at the local paragliding hill we had a pilot with cerebal palsy. He drove his truck as a shuttle service from the landing area to the top. He was intermediate rated as a pilot. There were neigh sayers but most of the pilots were very encouraging. We helped him launch and recover after landing. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey @carlW have you made the plunge yet and bought a wheel?  Have read your deliberations and went through the same process myself being new to EUC's and not wanting to make an expensive mistake.  I ended up buying an Inmotion V11 from roll.nz (who were awesome to deal with btw).  I've had it a couple of weeks now, first week did an hour of practice on it each day before work and now in my second week it's my daily commute to work.
Just reached a 100 km (distance!) on it and my thoughts so far are that I'm really pleased I went with a suspension wheel.  I truly believe I would have had a few more spills had I not had a suspension wheel since our foot paths are third world here in Auckland.  Thankfully the couple of times I have come off it I've been doing less than 20 km/h and have just run it off without eating pavement and the wheel has just fallen over without any damage.
I'm wearing as much safety gear as I can (motor cross body armor etc) and don't plan on breaking any land speed records so consider the chance of serious injury to be one I can live with.  
I find the V11 to be an extremely stable wheel and a lot easier to ride than I expected.  Can't say whether it's better than other brands since I've only ridden this one but as a beginner it's a manageable wheel IMHO.

Did I mention it's also the most fun I've had with my clothes on?  I'm acutely aware of how vulnerable I am every time I climb aboard it but the joy I get riding it makes it worth the risk (which I've minimized as much as possible) in my opinion.  Life is tenuous at the best of times so figure may as well make some great memories on the journey.  I've skated, skied, surfed, scootered and biked but this beats it all.  Would be a shame to miss out from being too risk averse IMHO.

Hope my insights prove helpful in some small way,

kind regards

Lex

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Lex,

I was thinking of going with a suspension EUC, as I was wanting to do more trail riding and staying off pavement, at least at higher speeds.  Between the V11 and S18, all reviews seem to indicate the V11 is the better city commuter, and the S18 is better for off road.  I live in the middle of no where, so unless I travel to a city to ride the S18 makes more sense.  After hearing about poor build quality, and poor range of the S18 I think I have decided to go with an EUC with more under the hood, and sacrificing the suspension.  Maybe after some redesigns and more battery capacity suspension wheels will be better in a couple of years.  At this time I am thinking of going with a model with what appears to be a decent track record.  The Kingsong 16X is at the top of my list currently.

I just got my taxes filed today.  I wanted to see how those impacted my bank account before firming up my selection.  Unfortunately not many options are in stock in the US at the moment.

New Zealand seems like it has lots of interesting people, talented artists, and beautiful landscapes.  At least what I see of it on TV and Youtube.  I got most of my traveling done when I was younger but I could still see checking out New Zealand some day.  Post a scenic ride for us sometime when your skills are up for riding and filming at the same time.  

 

 

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11 hours ago, CarlW said:

Lex,

I was thinking of going with a suspension EUC, as I was wanting to do more trail riding and staying off pavement, at least at higher speeds.  Between the V11 and S18, all reviews seem to indicate the V11 is the better city commuter, and the S18 is better for off road.  I live in the middle of no where, so unless I travel to a city to ride the S18 makes more sense.  After hearing about poor build quality, and poor range of the S18 I think I have decided to go with an EUC with more under the hood, and sacrificing the suspension.  Maybe after some redesigns and more battery capacity suspension wheels will be better in a couple of years.  At this time I am thinking of going with a model with what appears to be a decent track record.  The Kingsong 16X is at the top of my list currently.

I just got my taxes filed today.  I wanted to see how those impacted my bank account before firming up my selection.  Unfortunately not many options are in stock in the US at the moment.

New Zealand seems like it has lots of interesting people, talented artists, and beautiful landscapes.  At least what I see of it on TV and Youtube.  I got most of my traveling done when I was younger but I could still see checking out New Zealand some day.  Post a scenic ride for us sometime when your skills are up for riding and filming at the same time.  

 

 

FWIW, the 16X was my first wheel and I've been very happy with it but after 800km or so, I'm strongly considering the V12 for the extra cushion to (hopefully) avoid cutouts when I push it a little harder for short stretches. Granted, I have an extra 50 lbs or so pounds on you so if you're really set on the 16X and are happy to keep it under 40-45kmph for a good safety margin, then it's still a great choice imo.

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Decide on HOW and WHERE will you be using the wheel to get a better scope of what to get. I'd also say, height/weight is a factor on leverage and handling, i.e. a 6'4" 250 lb rider might find an 10" wheel harder to ride.

Some will argue that anyone can start with any wheel.......true, but why not choose an easier learning curve.

Sounds like you already do due-diligence so it wouldn't hurt to buy a used one. There's plenty of helpful members here to guide you. I wish I knew about this forum when I started.

I also find certain issues tend to be overblown after extensive reading, like complaints about Gotway quality or the mten3 being squirrelly etc etc.

Yes they exist but..........ppffft!  Be sensible and you'll be fine. Get some ankle protection (soccer sleeves) and wrap the wheel with a cheap yoga mat.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

My mistakes were getting 2 wheels that felt too small and slow for me, as I also thought I should "learn" to ride.

I'm 5'11" and around 200#....after Covid more like 212# :) . My 18" feels right. I was on a 14" and 16" that just felt too small and slow for me. Also, if you get a nice wheel right away it will save  you time and frustration in the long run, and a decent brand is built to withstand a few months of "learning" drops. If you don't like it, you can resell it.

Also, speed is a good factor to weigh in on. If you rode a Segway you should have a good feel for the speed that it went, and what you are comfortable with. I gave up motorcycles to ride my EUC, so I'm a bit on the fast side of riding, but I still tend to pull back for safety, and there are a lot of obstacles out there. If you want something faster, you will want to go bigger. Otherwise, you have lots of options. A smaller wheel is easier to carry around/store, so that is a bonus. I marvel at the 16" options out there, but for me the wheelbase is a big deal.

Other factors, such as terrain, wheel features (music, lights, handles, seats, etc.), design, battery size (range)....I'm sure you've been looking.

 

 

Edited by Circuitmage
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Good call! Welcome to the 16x family. It, and eWheels, should treat you well.

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