OneWheel Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 The EUC companies need to look at the lawsuits in the automotive industry. Millions of cars recall over questionable defects to avoid lawsuits. When people's health is at stake, there needs to be safer controls in place. It is questionable ... how is it possible to have same identical shape and motherboards between the Ninebot P and E, when the motor is increase from 500w to 800w. Would this increase temperature? Increase strain on components resulting critical failure rates of key components. Is this magic engineering at a cost to pay later over short term gain. The lack of competition, companies padding each others back with same unit shape and small battery size. Ninebot with the revolutionary peddle shape comfort but where is the head and tail lights . KingSong with the vision of bigger battery pack. Maybe Uniwheel can increase the competition or followed the rest holding back features just like the locked cellphones, model x good for music playing, model y good for video playing, model z taking pictures, model zz good for making phone calls .. best signal reception! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 3 hours ago, NinebotOneUser said: The EUC companies need to look at the lawsuits in the automotive industry. Millions of cars recall over questionable defects to avoid lawsuits. When people's health is at stake, there needs to be safer controls in place. It is questionable ... how is it possible to have same identical shape and motherboards between the Ninebot P and E, when the motor is increase from 500w to 800w. Would this increase temperature? Increase strain on components resulting critical failure rates of key components. Is this magic engineering at a cost to pay later over short term gain. The lack of competition, companies padding each others back with same unit shape and small battery size. Ninebot with the revolutionary peddle shape comfort but where is the head and tail lights . KingSong with the vision of bigger battery pack. Maybe Uniwheel can increase the competition or followed the rest holding back features just like the locked cellphones, model x good for music playing, model y good for video playing, model z taking pictures, model zz good for making phone calls .. best signal reception! Yes right now they are just exploiting the novelty of the euc. Later on they will have to deal with the lawsuits, safeties will be more robust and i still hope to see the day when good eucs will cost what they are supposed to!! $100-200!! Not $1000-1500! I can buy a used car ( complete with 4 wheels) for $1000 in good working condition, how come i have to pay same money for 1 wheel? A piece of plastic with a few mosfets doesnt cost 1000...it will all be much better soon..until then some big money will be made at our expense . Sorry for the rant...i should be in a better mood on the new years day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Ingram Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 I agree with anyone who has a P should be mindful of this issue. Im now thinking my 95Kg added to the issue. I guess I just over did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneWheel Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 95kg/209lbs on level surface is fine. Thank God this was not a steep hill braking. No excuses, you did not over do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneWheel Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Fortunately, I was able to switch my order to ninebot e plus. Thanks for the review guys. If I have any problems with the unit, I will report it on the forum as further additional review to help future buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Ingram Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 I have it on good authority that the Ninebot P is using the E+ board. Whats a little more worring me now is if I'm going forward at speed and want to change to go backwards and cannot help but think I'm damaging my unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneWheel Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Yes it is the same board, according to this tear down. http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/1998-ninebot-one-psame-control-board-as-the-e/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Ingram Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 I really want to try this again by rapid stopping to prove what done it. But it's the hassle of getting it repaired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Rider Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Sorry for just joining this forum and not mentioning something sooner. I bought a P also from Ian at speedy feet. I think it was from the first batches sent out. I literally took it out for my first ride 2 blocks and luckily on extremely flat sidewalk as I was speeding up to a mere 6mph it completely cut out on me. It was extremely gradual that I increased my speed. I hit hard and the unit went tumbling. The unit leds just kept blinking and there was a beeping noise. I turned it off and back on and the wheel did not spin but the beeping noise was there. Contacted Ian and he sent me the Motherboard from the actual unit he tested on youtube. I replaced it myself and carefully rode it for the next 3 days to and from work. In that short time period the P ran was super smooth and I was in love with it. I thought it had solved the problem until on the 3rd day the unit had a bad vibration in the pedals as if the wheel had some trouble turning like it was grinding or something. No unusually bad noise just the vibration in the pedals. I limped it slowly home and it seemed like it was getting worse. When I got home I turned it off and back on, picked it up and the wheel spun but with a really bad vibration. I turned it off again and tried to turn it on but it didn't even turn on. I tried to unplug the battery and motherboard and replug but when I went to replug the battery back in there a was huge spark. I was too scared to try again for a couple of days and when I did it wouldn't even plug back together. I figure something melted inside so it wouldn't reconnect. Ian said it must be the motherboard again which worries me. I just adamantly said I wanted a completely new unit. I am now waiting for a completely new replacement and hoping that my unit was just bad. I know there have been a lot of sporadic motherboard issues and as bad as it sounds I'm hoping it was just that. I had a E+ that never had a problem and now a new E+ that also seems rock solid. Ian has been great, as its not his fault. I'm just crossing my fingers and patiently waiting for my new unit. I'm not sure this helps anyone but only to be careful riding and that the new P is yet to be considered solid and reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulandjacquelyn Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hmmm.....love my P and I've ridden it fairly hard for almost two months now. I have not had any issues at all. I do a lot of go fast, stop, go fast again. I'm currently with 1.30 firmware. Sooooo Today I took it for a long ride..... Came back home and plugged it in. After it was almost full, I unplugged took it outside and turned it on. It jumped a bit with a clunk and shutoff. It would not turn back on. I took it back inside, plugged in and it turned on. I unplugged, took back out and it turned on no problem. I rode very cautiously for a few hundred feet....no issues. I think I will upgrade to 1.35 and report back later today...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helle Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hi, I 'm new here in Forum.Habe read a lot about ninebot one , so I decided to buy a Ninebot one P that was the beginning of January Soon after, I received an email from the seller. Sorry for my bad Englich , use Google translator . I'm from Germany, Munich . I hope now that Ninebot has really solved the problem and you'll be fine ??? Dear Mr Eckert, First of all we thank you for your order of Ninebot One P 800Watt. Sorry, we have experienced on today's demand delivery from the manufacturer, that there is with this model currently a few delivery problems. The delivery of the goods had been eingentlich confirmed firmly with the beginning of January. However, after consultation with the technique, it came with all previously produced equipment overheating. This is also not without risk, since the devices have partially switched off in the middle of the ride. Therefore, the complete delivery is currently stopped. If you already have received a device, we ask that you immediately get in touch with us. The manufacturer, however, has already found a solution to the problem and is working hard on the post-order as soon as possible to deliver. A completely exact date is unfortunately not yet available. However, it will take quite a high safety even 1-2 months to complete. Once we have a date info, we will info ming course immediately. We also wish to inform you that then also a price increase has occurred. With us the device now costs € 1,299. After consultation with the manufacturer, you will get your equipment of course still at the old price. Please note also that we have a super good price action with this article. In stores, you pay a lot more here. Of course, we would also understand if you do not want to wait that long. In this case we ask for a short feedback. We will then promptly cancel your order and refund the purchase amount back. For any queries please contact us at any time. Sincerely S. Klemz CEO E-Commerce So dear ninebot one P possessive , always nice drive carefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Interesting, and also potentially good news. It seems like maybe they might be interested in fixing the P's they've already sold, since they've admitted to an issue. I'm just glad they're not burying their heads in the sand, and that they're actually facing it and fixing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulandjacquelyn Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Looks like using the motherboard from e+ is surfacing as an issue. It's been cold riding my p so concerned now when warmer. Thank goodness bought from Ninebot US. As reported 1.35 MUST be addressing this since reports are P performance seems impacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavour Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I've tried the same manoeuvre on my E+ couple of months ago and it shut off the same way. I was pissed off, because needed to carry it a long way home. But fortunately when plugged it into the charger, it resurrected. It's weird that "emergency braking" can cause such painful experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 My first emergency breaking with an other brand made my unicycle starting to burn. It was in Paris city center among cars and pedestrians. I can tell you that I would have really prefered a secure shut off because I was really afraid of an explosion. The energy that the circuitry has to inject, reversely, in the engine, to slow down from 15 km to 0 within 2 meters is just tremendous. The same amount that the energy you would need to accelerate from 0 to 15 within 2 meters. For acceleration, you would find it incredible. For deceleration, you subjectively consider it as normal because you are used to your bicycle brakes that are so self evident but difficult to imitate with just magnetic fields (as a proof, you will notice that Tesla cars still have mechanical brakes)! To avoid ignition, Ninebot preferred a shut off. They perhaps should think about an airbag for the sake of rider's integrity ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 10 hours ago, Bat said: I've tried the same manoeuvre on my E+ couple of months ago and it shut off the same way. I was pissed off, because needed to carry it a long way home. But fortunately when plugged it into the charger, it resurrected. It's weird that "emergency braking" can cause such painful experience. To prevent having to carry your 9bot the next time this happens take some screwdrivers with you, so you can open the battery compartment. By un- and then reconnecting the battery you can drive again - just like plugging it to the charger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helle Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Vor 20 Stunden, sagte Supersport: Interessante und potenziell Auch Eine gute Nachricht. Es scheint, Wie sie Vielleicht Daran interessiert sein Könnte Festsetzung der P sie schon verkauft, da sie haben Auf ein Thema Aufgenommen. Ich bin nur froh, Dass sie Nicht vergraben Ihre Köpfe in den Sand stecken und that sie tatsächlich zugewandten und Festsetzung es. I would like to make nobody to fear, butone sees which energy can originate with abraking. Well it Is exaggerated Maybe onlyone of thousands properly Burning off, (extremely case) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helle Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 So , the E + and P affected by suddenly switched off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 19 minutes ago, Helle said: So , the E + and P affected by suddenly switched off Ahhh - so the second part of this video was from you/your friend. It was already posted here (youtube link) some time ago. As one of the users here found out in the other thread is, that at least the second accident on the video seems to be caused by overleaning and not a shutdown from the ninebot. You see around 1:36 in the slow motion part how the motor is still actively driven and giving quite some push to the 9bot - so the 9bot was still trying to do whats possible, but that was not enough in this case.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 38 minutes ago, Helle said: So , the E + and P affected by suddenly switched off All wheels are Potentially affected by this. Is it awesome? No. But there is simply NO way to prevent all shutoffs. It's a Single Wheel being balanced by a High Power Motor and Battery. It's a dangerous sport, if you don't ever want to be hurt, don't even think about stepping onto a single wheel vehicle, or a Motorcycle, or Skis, or Skates, etc... There is a LOT of energy to control here. They have to make choices during design. Either shut off when someone pushes past the recommended design limits, or allow the wheel to burst into flames. I think they made the right choice. It's probably less Bad Press when a single person skins a knee or breaks a bone, than if a Neighborhood, Tram, or Subway Train burns to the ground. And this is not just NineBot, but all the wheels. Some do better than others, but I think NineBot is among some of the better ones out there and they are only getting better. As soon as they release the fix for the P issues, they should be near the top of the list with KingSong and GotWay, which, by the way, also have this issue if pushed beyond their designed limits. If you watch videos of crashes, MOST are caused by user error. Not All, but Most. People Over Speed, or Over Tilt all the time. Take heed, Beep-Beep-Beep means something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavour Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 7 hours ago, Gil said: My first emergency breaking with an other brand made my unicycle starting to burn. It was in Paris city center among cars and pedestrians. I can tell you that I would have really prefered a secure shut off because I was really afraid of an explosion. The energy that the circuitry has to inject, reversely, in the engine, to slow down from 15 km to 0 within 2 meters is just tremendous. The same amount that the energy you would need to accelerate from 0 to 15 within 2 meters. For acceleration, you would find it incredible. For deceleration, you subjectively consider it as normal because you are used to your bicycle brakes that are so self evident but difficult to imitate with just magnetic fields (as a proof, you will notice that Tesla cars still have mechanical brakes)! To avoid ignition, Ninebot preferred a shut off. They perhaps should think about an airbag for the sake of rider's integrity ! Bull shit The energy to decelerate is not the same like energy needed to accelerate. You always need more to accelerate, otherwise you could drive forever with regenerative braking. Tesla cars have mechanical brakes only because these are required by law and for emergency braking when the engine can't decelerate that fast. Most of the time the mechanical brakes aren't used, so you don't need to change your brake blocks like... ever. Besides Teslas don'tshut off, don't tilt back and don't beep when you accelerate faster than Lamborghini I've told you all this many times here: EUCs like Ninebot are still primitive. Most of the cons we're experiencing are caused by poor developers and poorly designed motherboards. Even with the same hardware no tilt back is needed and with good developers it'd be not possible to shut off an EUC. With better motherboards and software, EUCs could work like a charm. For the same amount of money, Ninebots could have even better batteries (there is still a lot of place to put more batteries in THE SAME shield). Tilt back and shut off is not a safety thing, it's just crappy product. Neither tilt back or shut off is safe to the user. I really like my E+, because I've never had any real issues with it, but I'm just worried that maybe EUC manufacturers will do the same thing like cars manufacturers - they'll sell the same shit every year with engines from 1900 that should be already in museums. Maybe they want to keep the old hardware in Ninebots and still advertise "tilt back" as a safety behaviour, while they simply don't give a shit and don't want to improve their product. It looks like all EUCs are now like prototypes and all companies are acting like a cartel, because no one has implemented a better solution yet. Still, my E+ is great for every day commute, much better than a car in a city. 6 hours ago, Chriull said: To prevent having to carry your 9bot the next time this happens take some screwdrivers with you, so you can open the battery compartment. By un- and then reconnecting the battery you can drive again - just like plugging it to the charger. Now I know At first I thought I'd need to send it for repair under warranty, didn't know about the BMS. 1 hour ago, Chriull said: Ahhh - so the second part of this video was from you/your friend. It was already posted here (youtube link) some time ago. As one of the users here found out in the other thread is, that at least the second accident on the video seems to be caused by overleaning and not a shutdown from the ninebot. You see around 1:36 in the slow motion part how the motor is still actively driven and giving quite some push to the 9bot - so the 9bot was still trying to do whats possible, but that was not enough in this case.... So why developers haven't implemented a mechanism to just slow down the wheel even if the user pushes it forward even more? It's not hard at all. Imagine Tesla that shuts off and blocks the wheels when you press gas pedal too much 46 minutes ago, SuperSport said: All wheels are Potentially affected by this. Is it awesome? No. But there is simply NO way to prevent all shutoffs. It's a Single Wheel being balanced by a High Power Motor and Battery. It's a dangerous sport, if you don't ever want to be hurt, don't even think about stepping onto a single wheel vehicle, or a Motorcycle, or Skis, or Skates, etc... There is a LOT of energy to control here. They have to make choices during design. Either shut off when someone pushes past the recommended design limits, or allow the wheel to burst into flames. I think they made the right choice. It's probably less Bad Press when a single person skins a knee or breaks a bone, than if a Neighborhood, Tram, or Subway Train burns to the ground. Another bull shit The assumptions are wrong. The assumptions should be: "no shuts down, no tilt backs, no burning". When you have right assumptions, then you can start the design. It's not a lot of energy and it's clearly poorly controlled (well, tilt back means that they don't control the energy at all - they just try to prevent the user from accelerating more which is hilarious). Believe me, it can be done easily. So please don't repeat bull shit that all EUCs need to behave this way. The fact is they ARE behaving this way now, but they don't need to. We should push the manufacturers to take care of it finally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulandjacquelyn Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Let's keep this post P specific. As supersport noted, all eucs have this issue. I think there is another thing going on specific to the P and nb's decision to use same motherboard as e+. I have the P and am about to updated firmware......crossing fingers We may need good tally of issues should nb not want to fix. Something tells me new P's will ship with a P specific motherboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 8 minutes ago, Bat said: Another bull shit The assumptions are wrong. The assumptions should be: "no shuts down, no tilt backs, no burning". When you have right assumptions, then you can start the design. It's not a lot of energy and it's clearly poorly controlled (well, tilt back means that they don't control the energy at all - they just try to prevent the user from accelerating more which is hilarious). Believe me, it can be done easily. So please don't repeat bull shit that all EUCs need to behave this way. The fact is they ARE behaving this way now, but they don't need to. We should push the manufacturers to take care of it finally. Glad you cleared that up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 56 minutes ago, Bat said: Bull shit The energy to decelerate is not the same like energy needed to accelerate. You always need more to accelerate, otherwise you could drive forever with regenerative braking. It is the same amount - or noone ever would have talked about a perpetuum mobile. The only "problem" are the efficience factors - you loose energy for accelerating and again loose (much more) energy while regenerative braking... Quote ... Besides Teslas don'tshut off, don't tilt back and don't beep when you accelerate faster than Lamborghini Tilt back would be hardly possible with 4 wheels Quote I've told you all this many times here: EUCs like Ninebot are still primitive. Most of the cons we're experiencing are caused by poor developers and poorly designed motherboards. +1. But unfortionately still some of the better EUCs. Quote Even with the same hardware no tilt back is needed and with good developers it'd be not possible to shut off an EUC. I do not see that (regarding tilt back) - the only other warning systems would be beeping, which can easily be overheard at higher speeds or just too much wind... Quote ... Tilt back and shut off is not a safety thing, it's just crappy product. Neither tilt back or shut off is safe to the user. ... Maybe they want to keep the old hardware in Ninebots and still advertise "tilt back" as a safety behaviour, while they simply don't give a shit and don't want to improve their product. ... I could not imagine any other effective feedback system from the EUC to the driver which would work, because ... Quote So why developers haven't implemented a mechanism to just slow down the wheel even if the user pushes it forward even more? It's not hard at all. ... this just slowing down the wheel is _not_ possible. It would imply a negative torque, resulting in a faceplant of the driver. Especially if one is already leaning forward to accelerate! This is also the reason for overleaning, which most peoples confuse with a shut down. And while faceplanting by overleaning, the EUC still tries to accelerate and by this stabilize the driver - if in this situation the wheel slows down to show the driver that the limit is about to be reached, the impact of the face on the street will just get harder... ;( Quote Imagine Tesla that shuts off and blocks the wheels when you press gas pedal too much There's a huge different in the amount of batteries and so available power and most important - a car with 4 wheel is stable. Even if negative torque is applied (braking) you want fall. With an EUC thats absolutely not the case. Quote Another bull shit The assumptions are wrong. The assumptions should be: "no shuts down, no tilt backs, no burning". When you have right assumptions, then you can start the design. It's not a lot of energy and it's clearly poorly controlled (well, tilt back means that they don't control the energy at all - they just try to prevent the user from accelerating more which is hilarious). Believe me, it can be done easily. So please don't repeat bull shit that all EUCs need to behave this way. The fact is they ARE behaving this way now, but they don't need to. We should push the manufacturers to take care of it finally. +1 for no shutdowns. But with no tilt back - please come with another better feasable solution. Imho there is none ;( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneWheel Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 There is obviously much less time to react with sudden shutoff compare to over leaning. Two expert riders got serious injuries from sudden shutoff, we can out run a 20km/hr over leaning but fall on our face at 8km/hr sudden shutdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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