Sherman Impressions, compared to RS and Z10

[shellac]

So I got the newest Veteran Sherman in the past week, which I am quite enjoying, though it's not totally what I expected. This is the so called V3 Sherman with the wider rims, and waterproof display, running firmware 1.0.56.

This review will come across as negative, but its not. I'm loving the Sherman. It's just... different.

I'm a relatively newish rider, having first learned on the mten3 after the pandemic started. I've ridden extensively on a Z10, followed by most recently the RS. I like the RS, but I was looking for something with a bit higher build quality like I had with the Ninebot, and something where I wouldn't worry about a bit of rain destroying the wheel. Also of note I'm a disciple of @houseofjob style of riding with his padless foot and pedal angles centered technique, and I wanted to try out the soft mode on a Veteran. I'm also a big fan of the Sherman's industrial aesthetic.

I typically go through about 3 phases with a new wheel. There is an initial disappointment phase where I'm noticing some shortcomings and not riding it as confidently as the wheel I was just coming from. There is a second phase where I'm thinking that hey, this wheel is pretty cool. Then a third phase where I really like the wheel and think its the best. So maybe I'm in early second phase on this wheel.

The build quality of the Sherman is top notch, and does not disappoint, in sharp contrast to the creaky plastic RS. I really dig the look.

In terms of nimbleness is is less agile than an RS, but more so than the Z10. The Z10 was hard to turn and the RS quite easy, while the Sherman is somewhere in the middle, closer to the RS than the Z10. I'm not sure why this is as the tire between the RS and the Sherman has the same dimensions if I'm not mistaken. Maybe this is a consequence of the higher weight of the Sherman or possibly because it's using the knobby tire?

In terms of acceleration and braking I found it to be noticeably harder to do both on the Sherman than I was on the RS. I sort of felt like how others describe the EX or Monster Pro, that it needs pads to unlock the potential. This was a bit disappointing and I ended up having to slap on the included pads, with apologies to my sensei @houseofjob, and now I feel I get more torque and braking out of it. Maybe this is a function of the weight of the Sherman? Maybe removing the roll cage would give it more torque? I am not too heavy of a rider at 160 lbs, so perhaps that's a factor. I don't like having to put pads on it, but now I'm getting used to it and I see it as another skillset to master.

In terms of soft mode I can't tell the difference between the Sherman and my RS unfortunately. Maybe this is something they changed with the newer firmware as compared to the initial firmware.

Other small nitpicks are that I wish the pedals were wider so I can adjust my feet more and adopt a wider stance. I am looking into pedal alternatives. I also do experience the pedal dipping on turns that others have mentioned. Now I've had this on the Z10 and RS as well, but its more pronounced on this wheel and takes longer to correct.

I think my ideal wheel would ride like the RS but have the build quality of the Sherman, and that doesn't exist. Begode get your shit together. Veteran, maybe make a Sherman lite.

This sounds like a negative review but its not. The pros outweigh the cons. The Veteran hauls ass and it seems to move effortlessly once you reach the higher speeds, though it feels a bit lumbering off the line. The build quality is awesome and reminiscent of the Z10. I love the knobby tire and the noise it makes.  The display on top where you can adjust the settings is brilliant. I'm sure as I put more miles under my belt I will like this wheel more and I'll probably revisit this review and be adding more positives.

Edited April 25, 2021 by shellac

[RetroThruster]

I second the "Sherman lite" idea, I also would appreciate wider pedals, I'm not a pedal scraper but I believe mine (burnt smell batch) has the higher pedals.  I have some of Shane's power pads, they're really thin in the center so they don't make the wheel much wider and the power levers are far enough apart to keep you from feeling locked in all the time.  Anxious to hear your thoughts as the miles increase.   

[houseofjob]

29 minutes ago, shellac said:

Also of note I'm a disciple of @houseofjob style of riding with his padless foot and pedal angles centered technique, and I wanted to try out the soft mode on a Veteran. I'm also a big fan of the Sherman's industrial aesthetic.

Ha wow, thanks for that sentiment, perhaps this will kick my butt out further to finally make some visuals for what I'm sure many others think is crazy talk whenever I reply about my way of riding and soft mode etc. (BTW, your ask of how to cut 90 turn on soft mode, no pads, didn't go lost on me, but I don't think more writing will help explain very well).

 

29 minutes ago, shellac said:

In terms of acceleration and braking I found it to be noticeably harder to do both on the Sherman than I was on the RS. I sort of felt like how others describe the EX or Monster Pro, that it needs pads to unlock the potential. This was a bit disappointing and I ended up having to slap on the included pads, with apologies to my sensei @houseofjob, and now I feel I get more torque and braking out of it. Maybe this is a function of the weight of the Sherman? Maybe removing the roll cage would give it more torque? I am not too heavy of a rider at 160 lbs, so perhaps that's a factor. I don't like having to put pads on it, but now I'm getting used to it and I see it as another skillset to master.

All good, I can understand this common sentiment.

The way I ride, while I've tried my best to describe it in writing over and over again on these forums (because I've been lazy to put in the work to make a video), I'm afraid it's hard to grasp unless people have the visuals, especially if you don't have a skiing background to draw from sans visuals.

Just for now, maybe a better clue is (and another way I think of this), is to imagine drawing diagonal lines from one front tip of one pedal, to the back outer corner tip of the other pedal, and picturing a see-saw where the fulcrum is the middle-tire point contacting the ground. The idea is your opposing feet are counter-balanced "riders" on this diagonal T seesaw, and this becomes the leverage, where it's transitioning one foot weight to the other, taking advantage of the fact that at this diagonal angle, you have the ability to simultaneously tilt/pivot the wheel, while applying downward force for the gyro to interpret as lean-acceleration input.

Unfortunately, without getting this idea, the full advantages of any soft mode will get lost.

But either way, I appreciate your taking-a-challenge-on mindset, as this is how I approach things EUC or non.

 

29 minutes ago, shellac said:

In terms of soft mode I can't tell the difference between the Sherman and my RS unfortunately. Maybe this is something they changed with the newer firmware as compared to the initial firmware.

Yeah, I've heard claims that soft mode has been "hardened", but it's hard to judge from these comments, as I know most riders do not catch the nuances of good soft mode, as they don't have the soft mode technique in their muscle memory.

 

29 minutes ago, shellac said:

Other small nitpicks are that I wish the pedals were wider so I can adjust my feet more and adopt a wider stance. I am looking into pedal alternatives. I also do experience the pedal dipping on turns that others have mentioned. Now I've had this on the Z10 and RS as well, but its more pronounced on this wheel and takes longer to correct.

With my diagonal comment above, you kind of create the wider stance in your foot positioning (at least in my case), as in my "seesaw" analogy, the lower foot heel in the seesaw is landing wide on the back outer corner of the pedal, while the other foot is actually not that wide, but the heel is lifted, due to the angle of the tilting/pivoting wheel body. (argh, again, I probably need visuals, sorry).

The pedal dip is why I love and only ride soft mode, as it lets me get a deeper leverage angle on this seesaw analogy.

 

49 minutes ago, shellac said:

I'm not sure why this is as the tire between the RS and the Sherman has the same dimensions if I'm not mistaken. Maybe this is a consequence of the higher weight of the Sherman or possibly because it's using the knobby tire?

It's the difference in wheel bodies, and how much they catch your leg on the turns. If you don't ride where your inner turn leg/heel is wide to clear contacting and being restricted by the tilting/pivoting wheel body, then that degree of ability to tilt/pivot the wheel on turns is limited, as your leg catches it from doing so. And since the Vet has an boxier / edgier construction compared to the contoured edges of the RS, I believe that is what is probably catching your leg preventing you from sharper angling on turns. And the lack of this leg-to-wheel body clearance, it incorporates more of the wheel weight because you are not negating said weight by forming a wider triangular base, foot-to-foot with your trunk centered and above.

[shellac]

12 hours ago, RetroThruster said:

I second the "Sherman lite" idea, I also would appreciate wider pedals, I'm not a pedal scraper but I believe mine (burnt smell batch) has the higher pedals.  I have some of Shane's power pads, they're really thin in the center so they don't make the wheel much wider and the power levers are far enough apart to keep you from feeling locked in all the time.  Anxious to hear your thoughts as the miles increase.   

Does @ShanesPlanet sell those pads?

I’ll do an update at some point, I’m still sub 100 miles on the Sherman. 

[shellac]

12 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Yeah, I've heard claims that soft mode has been "hardened", but it's hard to judge from these comments, as I know most riders do not catch the nuances of good soft mode, as they don't have the soft mode technique in their muscle memory.

Yeah I thought it could be a firmware difference but it’s certainly possible that the soft mode is better on the Sherman and I’m not picking up on a nuanced difference. 

Thanks for the thorough description of your riding method. I think that’s one of the most detailed accounts I’ve read. Certainly if you do make a video for this, I think it’ll be a popular one. 

[.....]

22 minutes ago, shellac said:

Yeah I thought it could be a firmware difference but it’s certainly possible that the soft mode is better on the Sherman and I’m not picking up on a nuanced difference. 

Thanks for the thorough description of your riding method. I think that’s one of the most detailed accounts I’ve read. Certainly if you do make a video for this, I think it’ll be a popular one. 

I have the second fw version, as the first batch had serious pedal dip. I can feel a difference in soft vs hard mode for sure. I keep mine in medium mode now, but with the original fw, medium was still a lot of dip. Nowadays, I find medium to be quite soft but manageable. Soft mode still swings a little much for my tastes. I highly doubt the fw version I'm running is the newest out tho.

As for stopping.... I find I can stop the sherm surprisingly fast. The pads DO make quite a difference. I don't really use them much(always mounted tho), but its undeniable that the leverage and security you get at the far end of the wheel, keeps you on it while allowing more braking. I can almost stop as quickly on the padless 18L, but i have to squeeze like hell and I've damn near fell of the back more than once. With a padded sherm, you can lean back hard like a power slide on a skateboard, and the wheel stops. Oddly, I cant accellerate with the same force, but tis still more than if I were padless. As mentioned, the sherm aint bad to ride padless, tho I found that top edge to be a little mean on bird legs at times. The 10mm of epdm at center pad, seems to help with that comfort complaint of mine. Overall, the pads are 35mm thick at the caps, but pretty wide to keep you from feeling locked in. Jumping from the wheel in a hurry, seems to be a habit of mine..

I designed pads for my own personal use, but I can make a few more sets upon request. Plenty of pads to choose from and plenty of people making them. I'm sure mine arent the worst or the best you could find. They are black, so they at least match..    For us 'mten riders association' members, I toss in charge caps and stickers with shirt or pad orders. Free shit... can't beat that!

Edited April 26, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Dominic Winsor]

18 hours ago, shellac said:

I typically go through about 3 phases with a new wheel. There is an initial disappointment phase where I'm noticing some shortcomings and not riding it as confidently as the wheel I was just coming from. There is a second phase where I'm thinking that hey, this wheel is pretty cool. Then a third phase where I really like the wheel and think its the best. So maybe I'm in early second phase on this wheel.

 

This is an excellent observation. I wish more people were this self aware when reviewing!

[Bone]

On 4/25/2021 at 10:24 AM, shellac said:

I think my ideal wheel would ride like the RS but have the build quality of the Sherman, and that doesn't exist. Begode get your shit together. Veteran, maybe make a Sherman lite.

Very well said, hopefully someone out there is listening. 

I totally relate to your phases.  It's so easy to get so hyped up for a big new purchase like this that there's no way it will live up to your expectations.  Then the buyer's remorse sets in a little bit.  Then the pendulum swings back again and you start to enjoy it for what it is, not what you hyped it up to be.

Thanks for posting this, it's a big help for me and I'm sure plenty of others that are out there weighing their options for their next wheel.