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Charger didnt turn green, could it overcharge?


Hotwheel85

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Hi.

Just charged a new Joyor y8s, it have 26A 48v Battery and the charger is only 2A.

Manual saying that it should take 13-14 hours. After 17 hours it still was red light, i plugged it in and out and it turned green right away. 
The scooter showed that it was 53v on the Battery.

So it means it only charged 4.07 pr Battery pack since it have 13.

Is it possible that it overcharged the Amper capacity Even the volt was not overcharged?

Thanks for replies :)

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The website writes "

Long-Range Battery with Smart Power Management

Several 18650 high-capacity lithium batteries deliver up to 50.9 miles of travel on a single charge. Smart battery management via the LCD displays the health of the battery pack and notifies you immediately if there are issues.

Double Protection from Overdischarging

Double Protection from Overcharging

Undervoltage Auto-Sleep Protection

Temperature Resistance

Short Circuit Protection

Overcurrent Protection"

What does the LCD report?

5 hours ago, Hotwheel85 said:

26A 48v Battery and the charger is only 2A.

That is 26Ah. So with 2A the charge time is roughly 26Ah/2A=13h.

5 hours ago, Hotwheel85 said:

So it means it only charged 4.07 pr Battery pack since it have 13.

Yes. That seems a bit low.

5 hours ago, Hotwheel85 said:

After 17 hours it still was red light, i plugged it in and out and it turned green right away. 

A strange behaviour. Something seems not to work right...

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On 4/18/2021 at 12:29 PM, Chriull said:

Btw - whats the charger voltage? Written on the charger and if you have a voltmeter meadured?

I am going to check again about the charger. So it have doble protection when it comes to overcharge. Maby the charger have a issue with turning green, the charger went from 50-55c temperature and down to 30, and the frame under the scooter was cold again too it was a few celsius warmer while it charged.

Strange it didnt top up the Battery after so long time, i would try to charge it full again. Yesterday i drived it to 47v and plugged the charger again, after around 8 hours it showing 52v on the display. Would try let it be connected for a few more hours. And if it never turn green it could be a idea to Ask for a new charger probably.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hotwheel85 said:
On 4/18/2021 at 12:29 PM, Chriull said:

Btw - whats the charger voltage? Written on the charger and if you have a voltmeter meadured?

I am going to check again about the charger

The charger would be the easiest and cheapest to check and replace.

But unfortionately chances are high it's the first signs of battery degradation

... If the bms work about the same in your scooter...

On 4/18/2021 at 12:27 PM, Chriull said:

Smart battery management via the LCD displays the health of the battery pack and notifies you immediately if there are issues.

There are no issues reported?

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18 minutes ago, Hotwheel85 said:

No issues is reported on the display.

The charger turned green the next time i charged it, got 53.6v on the display, but it should had been 54.6? 
 

That is close enough on voltage. 

@Chriull Could the batteries have been badly out of balance? 
 

My take is that if you keep using it the problem will either go away or get worse very soon. 

Edited by RockyTop
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6 hours ago, Hotwheel85 said:

No issues is reported on the display.

A good sign, but probably not meaning too much to trust in marketing statements?

6 hours ago, Hotwheel85 said:

The charger turned green the next time i charged it, got 53.6v on the display, but it should had been 54.6? 

 

6 hours ago, RockyTop said:

Could the batteries have been badly out of balance? 

For any statement on this one would need measured charger no load voltage versus final battery voltage.

Measured with the same device (voltmeter) as inaccuraces are to high to compare different reported/meadured values!

Edited by Chriull
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8 hours ago, Chriull said:

A good sign, but probably not meaning too much to trust in marketing statements?

 

For any statement on this one would need measured charger no load voltage versus final battery voltage.

Measured with the same device (voltmeter) as inaccuraces are to high to compare different reported/meadured values!

What device can i buy to get a volt meter on each pack inside? The plug have no balance plug that i am used to in the rc hobby, the display can be unaccurate if i understand you right, so 53.6 could be enough? 
I like to store it at 50% Would that be around 47v? 

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2 hours ago, Hotwheel85 said:

The plug have no balance plug that i am used to in the rc hobby, the display can be unaccurate if i understand you right, so 53.6 could be enough? 

Could. Or could be a degraded battery pack. As linked in https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/22351-what-to-do-battery-not-charging-to-100/

and following links many details and considerations are collected.

Quote


I like to store it at 50% Would that be around 47v? 

Limiin cells are full at 4.2V around 3V (quite) empty - so around 3.6V should be 50%. Seems to be the manufacturer specified nominal voltage in the cells datasheet could be the 50% figure you're looking for?

So this "guessed" 3.6V would be ~48V.

So yes - you're 47V are very fine, too. Afaik the exact voltage does not matter too much as lomg as it is roughly in this region!?

Edited by Chriull
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3 hours ago, Chriull said:

Could. Or could be a degraded battery pack. As linked in https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/22351-what-to-do-battery-not-charging-to-100/

and following links many details and considerations are collected.

Limiin cells are full at 4.2V around 3V (quite) empty - so around 3.6V should be 50%. Seems to be the manufacturer specified nominal voltage in the cells datasheet could be the 50% figure you're looking for?

So this "guessed" 3.6V would be ~48V.

So yes - you're 47V are very fine, too. Afaik the exact voltage does not matter too much as lomg as it is roughly in this region!?

Thanks for the answers.

I know a guy with the same scooter, when it light green he Get 54v on the display, also had 53.8. But the first time showed 54.6.

Both our scooters goes just as quick up to top speed. 
If some of the packs is starting to struggle i am wondering if it would be possible to notice effectloss?

Now it’s not good enough weather for me to charge it up again , and see how many volt i Get this time, but i would type here next time it’s fully charged and then if it show more voltage i guess it’s fine

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4 minutes ago, Hotwheel85 said:

Get 54v on the display, also had 53.8. But the first time showed 54.6.

 

4 minutes ago, Hotwheel85 said:

next time it’s fully charged and then if it show more voltage i guess it’s fine

Pfff... does not really sound like quality... :(

5 minutes ago, Hotwheel85 said:

If some of the packs is starting to struggle i am wondering if it would be possible to notice effectloss?

In the beginning not really. If such an 1V loss is caused by one "aging" cell group just some a bit less range and a bit lower maximum "lift cut off speed" is caused. Differences in acceleration should not be noticable.

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1 hour ago, Chriull said:

 

Pfff... does not really sound like quality... :(

In the beginning not really. If such an 1V loss is caused by one "aging" cell group just some a bit less range and a bit lower maximum "lift cut off speed" is caused. Differences in acceleration should not be noticable.

How can i get the battery checked to know if it’s something wrong or not? Would like to measure the volt when fully charged, dont trust this display meter.

The scooter have a Samsung battery. 

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3 minutes ago, Hotwheel85 said:

How can i get the battery checked to know if it’s something wrong or not? Would like to measure the volt when fully charged, dont trust this display meter.

The scooter have a Samsung battery. 

 

16 hours ago, Chriull said:

For any statement on this one would need measured charger no load voltage versus final battery voltage.

Measured with the same device (voltmeter) as inaccuraces are to high to compare different reported/meadured values!

 

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Safest way is to remove the battery from the scooter and connect them to plus and minus on the battery?
No plug that could fit the charging outlet, to messure it righ?

Dont think i would keep the guarantee if i take out the battery, thats why i wonder if the only way is to remove it to access the red and black connection on the pack itself. 

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2 hours ago, Hotwheel85 said:

Safest way is to remove the battery from the scooter and connect them to plus and minus on the battery?

Sorry, i have no idea of the assembly of this e scooter. But yes, that's a normal way - if there are no other mire easily accesible points of measuring.

2 hours ago, Hotwheel85 said:


No plug that could fit the charging outlet, to messure it righ?

Normally/mostly there is some reverse protection circuitry that ptevents such meadurement.

2 hours ago, Hotwheel85 said:

Dont think i would keep the guarantee if i take out the battery, thats why i wonder if the only way is to remove it to access the red and black connection on the pack itself. 

The easiest is the measurements you already have - the voltmeter of the charger. As long as current is flowing it shows (as good as) the battery voltage.

There is just some small difference by the protection circuitry. Should be about negligable around the final stage of the charge.

The voltage of the battery should (almost) reach the maximum (not connected) charger voltage with dropping current.

If not the bms of the battery should/will cut off sometimes letting the current flow stop and the voltage "jump up" to no load voltage.

So this would be a certain sign of an aged/degraded/imbalanced battery.

At least this is the behaviour of EUC batteries/chargers.

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1 hour ago, Chriull said:

Sorry, i have no idea of the assembly of this e scooter. But yes, that's a normal way - if there are no other mire easily accesible points of measuring.

Normally/mostly there is some reverse protection circuitry that ptevents such meadurement.

The easiest is the measurements you already have - the voltmeter of the charger. As long as current is flowing it shows (as good as) the battery voltage.

There is just some small difference by the protection circuitry. Should be about negligable around the final stage of the charge.

The voltage of the battery should (almost) reach the maximum (not connected) charger voltage with dropping current.

If not the bms of the battery should/will cut off sometimes letting the current flow stop and the voltage "jump up" to no load voltage.

So this would be a certain sign of an aged/degraded/imbalanced battery.

At least this is the behaviour of EUC batteries/chargers.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with the batteries. The charger dosnt have volt meter, it just light red and green. But the display on the scooter show voltage constant when it’s parked or when i drive it. Charging it up for third time now and i am curious about the end result. Maby i must turn it on to manage the volt meter before i unplug it from charger to see what it showing when it’s connected and light green. 

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29 minutes ago, Hotwheel85 said:

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with the batteries. The charger dosnt have volt meter, it just light red and green. But the display on the scooter show voltage constant when it’s parked or when i drive it. Charging it up for third time now and i am curious about the end result. Maby i must turn it on to manage the volt meter before i unplug it from charger to see what it showing when it’s connected and light green. 

Ups - i'm very sorry. I just mixed this up with another topic with a charger including an voltmeter :(

The scooter showimg the voltage does not help. One needs charger no load voltage and battery viltage measured with _one_ device...

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Yes. I took a full charge again and it now showed 53.7.

Took it out for a ride and put the display to show voltage, after rolling down and break between for 500meter it showed 54.2v like it charged a bit while rolling down.

Could it stop at 53.7 to prevent overcharge while rolling down with a fully charged Battery, or could it be a indicator that i should first try a new charger and see if that would top it to 54.6? 

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Hello. I received today same scooter, Y8S. Wrong charger unfortunately, I can’t use the plug. I wonder if someone can tell me original charges parameter to see if it’s only to change the plug or if the charger it’s wrong. 
Can you connect this scooter with application??

 Thanks soo much guys!!

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37 minutes ago, Dimidragos said:

 

Hello. I received today same scooter, Y8S. Wrong charger unfortunately, I can’t use the plug. I wonder if someone can tell me original charges parameter to see if it’s only to change the plug or if the charger it’s wrong. 

According to @Hotwheel85 it is 13S batteries, so the voltage of the charger should be 54,6V.
Max amperage will depend of the scooter, but anything under 3A is very common and shouldn't be an issue.

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Yes the charger is 2A.

The store here also had to change out the charger for me to Get the plug that fit the scooter, the one in the package have been shipped with a wrong plug.

 

The scooter feels very solid and strong! Very happy with mine, no annoying sounds in bumps or anything. 
 

About the Battery i have checked with my brother that have the same scooter; the voltage after fully charge is 53.7 on his scooter too, so i guess it must be unaccurate display voltage meter, or something with the charger stopping early to prevent overcharge when you drive with a fully charge one the scooter charge the Battery littlebit. 
Doubt it would be something wrong with Two of the same scooter. 
 

Please check your voltage meter on the display once you Get the right plug to charge it ok? :-) 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 5/1/2021 at 8:35 AM, Hotwheel85 said:

About the Battery i have checked with my brother that have the same scooter; the voltage after fully charge is 53.7 on his scooter too, so i guess it must be unaccurate display voltage meter, or something with the charger stopping early to prevent overcharge when you drive with a fully charge one the scooter charge the Battery littlebit. 

Doubt it would be something wrong with Two of the same scooter.

I would check with the seller.  1V is a significant amount of charge capacity where you are also not getting the full performance of your scooter.  Torque and top speed at 54.6V vs. 53.7V is very significant!  The Inmotion V11 gets 34.1mph at 100-80% battery charge, but only 30mph below 80%.  Maybe this is standard for all of these types of joyor y8s scooters, but I doubt it very much.  If your two scooters came from the same batch, then yes, they could possibly have the same problem. 

On 4/18/2021 at 12:35 AM, Hotwheel85 said:

Manual saying that it should take 13-14 hours. After 17 hours it still was red light

This statement worries me the most.  The battery should have arrived at the storage voltage at a little above 48V, which is about 50% capacity (charge should have taken 6-7 hours, not 13-14 hours).  If the battery in your scooter is significantly lower than this, then it could have been stored at an incorrect voltage where the battery would degrade very quickly.  New batteries should fully charge to 54.6V and start to drop lower and lower as the battery gets older.  If your battery only charges to 53.7V, then it is time to purchase a new battery (unless there is a voltage limit).  If you go to Apollo scooter's website for the Phantom, they show a chart with battery voltage at full charge vs. years of use.  However, those are top quality 18650 cells, so cheaper batteries will have poorer charge characteristics.  I hope this helps you.

https://apolloscooters.co/products/apollo-phantom

 

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I forgot to mention, after the light turns green on the charger, leave it plugged into your scooter for at least 1 hour to give it ample time to finish balancing (trickle charge at this point, so no over-charging).  If you removed the charger as soon as it turned green and got 53.7V, then if your battery has a standard passive balancing BMS, it can be somewhere near 54.1-54.3V after balancing (based on past experience).

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