Alpinestar Tech-Air 5 Saved Me

[GreyRider]

I had a high speed crash and was wearing an Alpinestar Tech-Air 5 airbag vest. I was amazed after rolling across the pavement that I wasn't experiencing pain anywhere. Then I felt around and realized the airbag had been deployed. The product really works.

Needless to say if I hadn't been wearing a helmet, knee pads, hand/wrist guards and motorcycle jacket I might have been hurt elsewhere, but I am impressed with the airbag vest. It is expensive at $700 dollars, but I think it's worth it with the protection it gave me.

About 6 months ago, I had a crash without the vest and it rattled my cage with internal shock so bad, I couldn't sleep for three days due to the pain it caused. 

[null]

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I read recently a meta-study that over a certain speed only airbag vests had any tangible results. I suppose because they make an actual shock absorption whereas classic shell type protection mostly spreads the shock to even it out. This is focused on shock though, shell has uses for sliding and pointy objects at lower speed.

How did you get it to activate?
I've seen those for motorcycle go down to the gas tank and take something like 35Kg pull.

There are budget vests for a bit under 100$, reviews seem good enough if one doesn't have the full budget for a brand.

[GreyRider]

The vest has a computer and 3 accelerometers and 3 gyros. It is constantly monitoring your ride and automatically detects if you are crashing. It is not supposed to deploy if you are going under 10 mph. I was at least doing 25 mph when I crashed. It happened fast, and the airbag automatically deployed before I hit the pavement.

[wheel-life]

I thought about something like this when I first started riding but it was a full suit.

Just saw that Black Cobra has 5-6 months of rehab on his shoulder, $700 seems like a small price to pay for insurance if it can help avoid something catastrophic like that. Will look more into them, thanks.

[wheel-life]

That's a concerning review on revzilla 

 

"It works......

Love having this vest, if you question if it will deploy I've got a story for you. A friend ( didn't know I was wearing the vest) gave me a bro hug accompanied with a back slap. Guess what, the vest deployed; at least I know it works and at a high level at that. Confused, happy and pissed all within 5 minutes."

 

Reading another review from November about a false deployment, that's not good. I really wonder if this might not cause me to get into an accident if it can go off at the wrong time over some bumps. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by wheel-life

[Rehab1]

14 minutes ago, wheel-life said:

Reading another review from November about a false deployment, that's not good. I really wonder if this might not cause me to get into an accident if it can go off at the wrong time over some bumps. 

I saw a similar Alpinestar accidental deployment review:

“This potentially dangerous mis-deployment was bad enough but Alpinestars’ response was an absolute disgrace. I contacted them when I got home and they simply quoted the legal small print which said the airbag can deploy even though there is no crash event then went on to say that will be $180 for a recharge.”

You would think Alpinestar would be enthusiastic to evaluate the cause of their product’s unpremeditated software/accelerometer malfunction. 

Curious... are they owned by Begode?

If there were a reliable upper body protective system on the market I would be first in line.

 

[Skeptikos]

Presumably @GreyRider has ridden around in the vest a fair amount, and he didn't mention having problems with accidental deployments. It doesn't seem like it's a big issue. A rare accidental deployment is more of a nuisance than anything and might be embarrassing, while a crash without an airbag can be really bad. (If the airbag causes you to crash, it's already deployed so chances are you'll be fine.) I think you're making the perfect the enemy of the good here.

[shellac]

Also seriously considering this vest. I read somewhere that alpinestars pushed a firmware update to reduce accidental deployments. I presume it’s a pretty rare occurrence but can happen. The reviews are mostly good. 

My size seems to be out of stock everywhere otherwise I would have already ordered. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by shellac

[helmet]

On 4/12/2021 at 10:16 AM, null said:

I read recently a meta-study that over a certain speed only airbag vests had any tangible results

The push back from the air bag could possibly be more traumatic and unexpected than the initial blow from the fall.

[wheel-life]

6 hours ago, Skeptikos said:

Presumably @GreyRider has ridden around in the vest a fair amount, and he didn't mention having problems with accidental deployments. It doesn't seem like it's a big issue. A rare accidental deployment is more of a nuisance than anything and might be embarrassing, while a crash without an airbag can be really bad. (If the airbag causes you to crash, it's already deployed so chances are you'll be fine.) I think you're making the perfect the enemy of the good here.

I would love to get this but I can't go by one anecdotal EUC review when I see something like this:

https://advrider.com/f/threads/alpinestars-airbag-false-deployment-warning.1477444/

Below is Alpinestars response to a false deployment where they themselves state it's not for non-motorcycling use:

 

 

All that being said, I'm more than happy to look into this again if and when we have more EUC data. Hopefully @shellac can be another data point before long.

[Skeptikos]

There's a gigantic problem with your reasoning here, @wheel-life. You're giving a huge weight to this possibility of false deployment, which doesn't appear to be very common, doesn't appear to have caused any injuries at all, and by all accounts so far looks like a $180 nuisance.

And then you're giving zero weight to the much more urgent factor, that without an airbag you can crack ribs and demolish your shoulder, with potentially life-altering consequences. (Not to mention many other, slightly less catastrophic injuries that could also be prevented by an airbag.)

We don't have to be perfectly informed about the rates of these two events to figure out that the airbag is very very likely to have a net positive impact.

And if it isn't intended for EUC use, well, neither is most of the other gear we're wearing. Until Lazyrolling starts selling airbags we just have to take the most appropriate stuff we can find.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Skeptikos

[wheel-life]

6 hours ago, Skeptikos said:

There's a gigantic problem with your reasoning here, @wheel-life. You're giving a huge weight to this possibility of false deployment, which doesn't appear to be very common, doesn't appear to have caused any injuries at all, and by all accounts so far looks like a $180 nuisance.

And then you're giving zero weight to the much more urgent factor, that without an airbag you can crack ribs and demolish your shoulder, with potentially life-altering consequences. (Not to mention many other, slightly less catastrophic injuries that could also be prevented by an airbag.)

We don't have to be perfectly informed about the rates of these two events to figure out that the airbag is very very likely to have a net positive impact.

And if it isn't intended for EUC use, well, neither is most of the other gear we're wearing. Until Lazyrolling starts selling airbags we just have to take the most appropriate stuff we can find.

This is true. Didn't realize you had one too. How's your experience been with it?

[Camenbert]

On 5/23/2021 at 6:05 PM, Rehab1 said:

Curious... are they owned by Begode?

that's really your thought?
Have you see, or have an idea, of how long and the investments it took to develop this life-saving product ?
If not Alpinestar, go Daneise, you even have the choice.

Alpinestar equip Formula1 drivers, and when you see the crash of Romain GROSJEAN, trap half a minute in the middle of 100kg of fuel as well as the battery pack burning, yet able to walk away, you'll have no doubt about the quality of Alpinestar products !!!

When enough EUC rider wear airbags, we will be in a position to get specific firmware, that all.
Example, should be active from 5 mph and not 10, or less sensitive to vertical acceleration as we mostly have no suspension.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Camenbert
thought, with a t at the end

[Rehab1]

6 hours ago, Camenbert said:

that's really your though ?
Have you see, or have an idea, of how long and the investments it took to develop this life-saving product ?
If not Alpinestar, go Daneise, you even have the choice

 

I’ve given great consideration about purchasing the Alpinestar. Product cost vs another surgery definitely tips the scale. Just a bit concerning when they sidestepped a consumer’s legitimate concern. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Rehab1

[Skeptikos]

On 5/24/2021 at 6:33 AM, wheel-life said:

This is true. Didn't realize you had one too. How's your experience been with it?

I don't have one yet, but I'll almost certainly get one when I get a faster wheel, if not before then. I'm totally happy to be another guinea pig if you want more evidence before buying.

Actually @LanghamP has me interested in horse riding vests now, so I want to check those out too. Maybe that'll end up being a bit more practical/cheaper.

[Ronin Ryder]

Anyone else wearing an airbag vest? Would this activate if u hit a bump or pothole? 

[shellac]

1 hour ago, Skeptikos said:

Actually @LanghamP has me interested in horse riding vests now, so I want to check those out too. Maybe that'll end up being a bit more practical/cheaper.

Interesting. Looking those up though, it seems like they offer zero shoulder protection unlike the Tech Air. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by shellac

[wheel-life]

1 hour ago, Skeptikos said:

I don't have one yet, but I'll almost certainly get one when I get a faster wheel, if not before then. I'm totally happy to be another guinea pig if you want more evidence before buying.

Actually @LanghamP has me interested in horse riding vests now, so I want to check those out too. Maybe that'll end up being a bit more practical/cheaper.

Yeah, I'm more than happy to invest in my safety so I'm not worried about the $700+refills, I would just love to know how I would react if it gave me a false deployment while riding. I keep my min safety margin on the 16x at least at 20% and I've ridden 1000+km incident free now (but I know the clock is ticking for all of us in this hobby). I really would like to find an answer for these severe shoulder injuries our wheels can cause, this vest could be it.

 

 This guy has a pretty strong reaction to his false deployment though, lol...imagine that while you're riding an euc on a curve. At least we don't have to worry about our hands being affected with handlebars.

 

 

Maybe I'll check out that horse vest...but I'll probably just roll the dice on this airtech vest in the next month or two anyway.

Edited May 25, 2021 by wheel-life

[Skeptikos]

That's a good example. I can definitely see how a crash could cause twisting like that. I saw that there was a followup video too, where he says there's a software update that's supposed to fix that.

Anyway, I do a lot of statistics, and it's easy for me to guess what's going on here. The data from the sensors can't perfectly discriminate between crashes and non-crashes-- some crash movements are the same as some non-crash movements. In these cases Alpinestars is faced with a textbook signal detection problem. They look at the costs of making a mistake in either direction, and decide that false positives are a lot better than false negatives. So they set a low threshold for inflating the airbag. It causes some false deployments but at least they can be more sure it'll inflate when needed.

That's why I'm not too worried about the false deployments. I see it as a sign that the airbag is working correctly, not a sign that it's malfunctioning. ($300 though, that's a lot. I thought it was just $180.)

Of course, if they can improve their detection algorithm so that fewer false deployments are needed, that's even better.

[Camenbert]

The airbag deployment on this video have it's logic : it happen exactly after a 180° rotation of the guy.
With the camera shooting at the perfect moment and with right framing, this definitely look on purpose.

There is nothing easier to fool an algorithms once you know it's own logic.

I just hope Alpinestar, or Daneise, let you know the moves to avoid, as they obviously told TFL about that 180° one.

 

 

[GreyRider]

I have put at least 1500 miles on my wheel wearing the airbag and I have had no false deployments. I am so glad it did deploy when I really needed it.

Edited June 1, 2021 by GreyRider

[GreyRider]

On 5/25/2021 at 4:12 PM, Skeptikos said:

That's a good example. I can definitely see how a crash could cause twisting like that. I saw that there was a followup video too, where he says there's a software update that's supposed to fix that.

Anyway, I do a lot of statistics, and it's easy for me to guess what's going on here. The data from the sensors can't perfectly discriminate between crashes and non-crashes-- some crash movements are the same as some non-crash movements. In these cases Alpinestars is faced with a textbook signal detection problem. They look at the costs of making a mistake in either direction, and decide that false positives are a lot better than false negatives. So they set a low threshold for inflating the airbag. It causes some false deployments but at least they can be more sure it'll inflate when needed.

That's why I'm not too worried about the false deployments. I see it as a sign that the airbag is working correctly, not a sign that it's malfunctioning. ($300 though, that's a lot. I thought it was just $180.)

Of course, if they can improve their detection algorithm so that fewer false deployments are needed, that's even better.

I got mine recharged for $180. It is $300 after the 3rd deployment, because they make you replace the bladder after the 3rd deployment.

[Camenbert]

I've watch the video review of that Triumph motorcycle, and as suspected, never the camera can be seen at the rear,
there no video shooting from there neither.
So the camera was there only and only once to shoot that "false" airbag deployment.

Now we get the info " It is $300 after the 3rd deployment, because they make you replace the bladder "  ??
TFL only said it cost $300, never $180. The guy is a bad actor and there is a big doubt about honesty to say the least.

I guess YT is full of such...

 

[Scottie888]

Just did a YT vid on this Air Tech 5 & bike airbags sure have come a long way from the inflated life jackets thingy! Very interesting & to be sure, I'm not convinced its for EUC usage.

Regardless, I wonder how the Air Tech 5 would do offroad esp the twisties & gnarly mtb trails. I do a lot of that on the S18 & bail (oft times without eating it) more often than I'd like (esp if the pedals clip rocks or on dug out divets) & where there's also a lot more body movements.

For sure I'd recco it for ebikes & escoots where some of 'em do 100kph stupidly.

[LanghamP]

3 hours ago, Camenbert said:

Now we get the info " It is $300 after the 3rd deployment, because they make you replace the bladder "  ??

Crashing an expensive sport bike is usually covered by insurance, and that also includes protective equipment. Crashing a bike isn't that common of an occurrence, but crashing an EUC is common. EUCs are more akin to skateboards, and so until Alpinestar or some other company comes up with a user rechargeable vest, then deployable clothing isn't quite affordable (and once deployed it can't be used until returned refurbished).