Paul A Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Very disappointing but glad that Wrong Way has shown the major flaws. Hopefully KS will have remedied them for the second batches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share Posted March 11, 2022 9 minutes ago, Paul A said: Very disappointing but glad that Wrong Way has shown the major flaws. Hopefully KS will have remedied them for the second batches. It’s morning and the beer goggles are off. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhz06 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 3 hours ago, rolis said: The sliders travel the distance of the suspension. Which is as we know 130mm vertically edit: plus we know that the sliders are some kind of rubber. We don’t know the sliders are rubber. I highly doubt they are rubber. Looks like the over ride bumpers are rubber but not the sliders. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunzn Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 18 minutes ago, jrhz06 said: We don’t know the sliders are rubber. I highly doubt they are rubber. Looks like the over ride bumpers are rubber but not the sliders. don't recall from which video, but someone described the part as 'dense' and 'high quality' plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Maybe wait for Ecodrift before cancelling. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 As i thought at start that it was crappy wheel. After seeing that video and that "suspension". Did not change my mind at all. Just calling things how they are. S20 overhyped wheel... How long kingsong where making it? Can someone remind me? Why companies can't make something GOOD! For duck sake. Anything made after 2020 been shit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 7 hours ago, supercurio said: Play in most of the assembly and loose tolerances: Is that an issue, or a requirement instead? Excessive radial/ linear play will only exacerbate misalignment throughout the entire slider/linkage construct resulting in suspension binding and premature fatigue. Why KS elected to use polymer ’friction’ blocks within the sliders is beyond me. The S18 suspension did have some initial alignment issues but they were able to be resolved. With the lack of proper lubrication and protection from grit entering the slider’s aluminum channels the suspension system will eventually become challenged to operate efficiently. I was concerned enough about maintaining the proper lubrication throughout the S18’s suspension articulations that I added zerk fittings. Suppose a similar mod could be applied to the S20 sliders. IMHO a sliding bearing carriage system would offer superior performance over the current polymer block slider design. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Video by Ekolka mentions the slider is plastic, sliding inside metal tube. No metal on metal. Time mark 5.50 onwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniMe Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 On 2/9/2022 at 11:21 AM, supercurio said: I've been wondering about the throttling as start up. I forget the name of the thing, but doesn't the S20 have a redundancy with a type of motor controller or something? A 'contactless' version that is much more reliable as a new addition, but an original tech version that is still needed for when the wheel starts up as the 'contactless' version can't start the wheel? Sorry, wish I could remember what this piece of kit is called... My question is, could it be possible that the slow off the line issue was set up by KS to enable the transition from the original controller thingie to the more advanced, touchless one? If this is true, could it also be possible that this wheel might be especially susceptible to low speed cut-outs during the phase while it's still relying on the older tech device? I believe the addition of this redundancy controller thing was a welcomed advance in terms of safety... is it possible we're seeing growing pains with the implementation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 The hall sensor failure redundancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniMe Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Ahhh, that's it! Could this be part of the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Don't know. Other members might have better insights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolis Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 59 minutes ago, jrhz06 said: We don’t know the sliders are rubber. I highly doubt they are rubber. Looks like the over ride bumpers are rubber but not the sliders. You are right, we don’t know anything for sure. But we know what others that had the chance to disassemble the wheel have said. “And here we have some sort of rubber coated with grease” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rawnei Posted March 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Mango said: It’s morning and the beer goggles are off. What are you implying? 9 minutes ago, UniMe said: I've been wondering about the throttling as start up. I forget the name of the thing, but doesn't the S20 have a redundancy with a type of motor controller or something? A 'contactless' version that is much more reliable as a new addition, but an original tech version that is still needed for when the wheel starts up as the 'contactless' version can't start the wheel? Sorry, wish I could remember what this piece of kit is called... My question is, could it be possible that the slow off the line issue was set up by KS to enable the transition from the original controller thingie to the more advanced, touchless one? If this is true, could it also be possible that this wheel might be especially susceptible to low speed cut-outs during the phase while it's still relying on the older tech device? I believe the addition of this redundancy controller thing was a welcomed advance in terms of safety... is it possible we're seeing growing pains with the implementation? Hall sensor redundancy has nothing to do with it, most likely it's high-current protection, my guess is that it's a safety feature but we can only speculate why it's so conservatively configured that it results in pedal dips, it's possible it could be further tuned and improved but until KS gives us more info we can only speculate on this. 4 minutes ago, rolis said: You are right, we don’t know anything for sure. But we know what others that had the chance to disassemble the wheel have said. “And here we have some sort of rubber coated with grease” And Ekolka video is contradicting this video saying it's some kind of high quality plastic, personally I think the bigger issue is that there is a lot of open space between the two sliders where dust and dirt can more easily gather which at least in my imagination is not a good thing. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Paul A Posted March 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) Wrong Way and friend might not have the suitable level of technical skills and knowledge. As evidenced by Ulf's comment about their lack of understanding in some areas in their tear down video. Edited March 11, 2022 by Paul A Additional info 3 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Ekolka video states KS has IP54 rating meaning dust and water will not affect the operation. The plastic sliders might be the high quality UHMW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolis Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 13 minutes ago, Paul A said: Wrong Way and friend might not have the suitable level of technical skills and knowledge I believe he can tell the difference between plastic and rubber, not much engineering knowledge needed there. 18 minutes ago, Rawnei said: And Ekolka video is contradicting this video saying it's some kind of high quality plastic That means it’s either or. But not to get stuck on crappy details, Wrongway has had the wheel for what, 2 weeks? And the sliders have already a crunchy sound. I hope that this will be improved somehow too in the production model. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 The rubbers don't appear to be the sliders. They appear to be protectors against bottoming out. Ulf's commented on some of their lack of knowledge, in his opinion. Ecodrift teardown video might be more informative. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolis Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Paul A said: Ulf's commented on some of their lack of knowledge, in his opinion. And I totally agree with what he wrote. Another teardown might help us understand better. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) Okay so after chatting during the ride today with @Rawnei, reading everyone's comment I would like to quote all of you, which is impractical. I haven't canceled my pre-order yet. Things I'd like to clarify from more sources: Sliding blocks Are the blocks really, quoting: "some sort of rubber, coated with grease [...] these things are not slippery, they grip"? I would imagine being a low-friction PTFE or similar thermoplastic. Did Adam guess that the blocks were made of rubber because the bottom out bumpers, assuming they are made of the same material? Then how well would the lowest friction material on the planet slide on a metallic surface, if it's thoroughly coated with grit? But in a way, no matter which materials are used, the fact is that after Adam's intense testing, simulating a few months of riding for most riders we can observe a significant amount of friction. Will this friction act like damping we want anyway, be negligible compared to rider weight, or make the suspension unnecessarily hard or sticky? I can't tell. As a YouTube clip:https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxkXZBfIuuZnWMzAD529iyQzY-S3M-zYtf Tolerances and play Thanks @Rehab1 for the descriptions. In short, the idea that it would be by design doesn't seem to hold much water. Or if it is, there would be drawbacks in performance and durability. I wonder what @fbhb thinks about that! Edited March 11, 2022 by supercurio 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 I just hope he cleaned things up before he put everything back together. The hill he was having so much fun not going up looked like it was pretty sandy stuff, so what he got in there does need to go. Time will tell how this plays out. I'm of course planning on a regular maintenance regimen... same as I have with my other wheels. Open, clean, inspect, wiggle, tighten, repair. What I've seen so far should be fine as long as I stick to the plan. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Wrong Way video, time mark 13.10 onwards, examining the sliders. Adam might be incorrect in thinking that the slider blocks are rubber, with grease on them. If the sliders are UHMW plastic, there should be no grease in the metal tubes anyway. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 IP54 rating presumably keeps any grit/dirt out of the slider tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fryman Posted March 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, Paul A said: Wrong Way video, time mark 13.10 onwards, examining the sliders. Adam might be incorrect in thinking that the slider blocks are rubber, with grease on them. If the sliders are UHMW plastic, there should be no grease in the metal tubes anyway. At .30 it shows them greasing the channels 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Difficult to determine what KS is doing at the 30sec mark. Adam's finger was covered with a black colour soot/grease. The brush and splash mark on the hand held tub seems to be a cream coloured substance. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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