Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[RayRay]

1 hour ago, Grimm10 said:

I want a heated seat for cold weather riding.

Try Heated Pants for wider coverage; (or combine with heated undies for "all over" warmth).

[RagingGrandpa]

On 2/28/2022 at 2:39 PM, RagingGrandpa said:

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/26948-whats-your-whkm/?do=findComment&comment=407527

Below is real data- see if you can puzzle through how such an inefficient number might occur  
At least 5 what-if's are answered by the various parameters logged...
GPS-based altitude is rather noisy in the forest (hint); this ride had no elevation change.

5 hours ago, Paradox said:

98.7wh/mi!  Towing a boat or RV?  Maybe pulling another rider giving him some regen?  Going uphill to the store?  Both ways! lol. 

Hehe just a 175lb rider, on a flat but twisty MTB trail, covered in heavy snow, riding aggressively slamming the power pads at every turn  (and falling 3 times)

The pack was cold too, but I don't think battery temp / low capacity affect the wh/mi calculation.

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by RagingGrandpa

[Paul A]

@Tawpiemembers Lukas and Lukasz, one letter difference.

[Blunzn]

here is the 'real' height adjustment of the S20 @34:40. most only lowered the pedal hangers.

 

[Paradox]

14 minutes ago, Blunzn said:

here is the 'real' height adjustment of the S20 @34:40. most only lowered the pedal hangers.

So what they are saying is remove the three screws on each side, drop the wheel a tad and only use one or two screws on each side to secure the wheel?  I hope I am misunderstanding this.  It does not seem likely the strength of the point of connection would be secure using less screws than designed.  If you drop the wheel to the lowest hole that means just one screw on each side?  Tell me I am wrong.  Tell me the adjustment lets you use three screws on each side on any height selected.  From the pics it is not clear this is the case.

[supercurio]

Just like @Paradox, I'm skeptical since they don't show in the video that there are more than 3 holes in total to put the screws in and I wonder if everything else in the suspension would still be in the right place.
Intriguing, but unless confirmed it looks like a big misunderstanding.

He does say "up and down" tho, so presumably he could also lower it from the default position.

@Blunzn, wanna ask them in the comments?

Edited March 2, 2022 by supercurio

[techyiam]

If I am not mistaken, in the video, he had removed the suspension links, one on each side. All he had to do was to disconnect the motor wires, and he could have proven whether or not the S20 has a quick and easy way to remove the wheel. 

What he altered is a structural component, and it is not designed to be adjustable, me thinks. 

Mind you, in going over to watch Kevin's video, it appears, it may be possible for him to drill new holes and tap them to allow the remaining screws to go in, and not lose structural integrity.

Edited March 2, 2022 by techyiam

[Blunzn]

if its in the highest position you can go down by 1,3 or 2,6cm. (Jack mentioned it in some early interview) so its probably 3 positions + lowering the pedalhangers 

from the kss20 homepage on the features page

Edited March 2, 2022 by Blunzn

[techyiam]

But everbody would have expected the only adjustment to be made would be at bottom of the battery box, no? 

Actually, you may be right. I went back to watch Kevin's video again. The lighting is so so, depending on which frame you are looking at, but I did managed to make out additional predrilled adjustment holes, after knowing what to look for. I stand corrected.

(I am not 100% sure, since I don't have access to one, but it should be likely, otherwise it doesn't make sense to have the correctly sized, and spaced holes there.)

Edited March 3, 2022 by techyiam

[Forwardnbak]

I mentioned I might get a chance for a range test and deeper look at the wheel but my local store won’t be able to get me a wheel to test due to the wheels popularity and our weather.

I’ll just wait for the production models and take a look. 

[Miko.cz]

maybe this could help? (my photo from demo day)

[Brendan "nog3" Halliday]

18 minutes ago, Miko.cz said:

maybe this could help? (my photo from demo day)

I've asked KS for the purpose of this and they advised that this makes the 'suspension distance' longer. I'm not 100% familiar with shock lever setups like this but that may lower the height of the unit.

They also warned that these bolts are thread locked with permanent (red) thread locker and will require heat to remove.

[techyiam]

7 hours ago, Brendan "nog3" Halliday said:

I've asked KS for the purpose of this and they advised that this makes the 'suspension distance' longer. I'm not 100% familiar with shock lever setups like this but that may lower the height of the unit.

They also warned that these bolts are thread locked with permanent (red) thread locker and will require heat to remove.

The is suspension travel adjustment.  Therefore, this adjustment should make the suspension travel longer, or shorter. And hence, the height of the unit, as well as pedal height will vary with this. This also means the suspension leverage ratio can be adjusted, since the shock stroke remains the same, while the suspension travel is adjustable. 

I am surprised that Kingsong warned you about the permanent thread locking compound, but not Afeez and Kevin at E-rides. 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by techyiam

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Miko.cz said:

maybe this could help? (my photo from demo day)

There appears to be at least 5 steps of suspension travel adjustment. It is hard to gauge from the photo because of lens distortion, but if I had to gauge, the adjustment range may be more than 2.6 cm. This is really good news. Thanks for sharing. 

Edited March 3, 2022 by techyiam

[Miko.cz]

23 minutes ago, techyiam said:

There appears to be at least 5 steps of suspension travel adjustment. It is hard to gauge from the photo because of lens distortion, but if I had to gauge, the adjustment range may be more than 2.6 cm. This is really good news. Thanks for sharing. 

I have two more photos, not very nice.
Two KS-S20 in opposite height positions of pedal (as we were told by distributor).
The left one was S20 parking on its back holder, not ready-to-go staying on the ground as the right one, so its very limited comparation :/
23cm(?) vs 17cm

[Curt8892]

Why hasn’t anyone looked at this? They showed this adjustment ability in their promotional videos. I believe this his how you do the tire change to. 
 

I did not see any stopper at the bottom of the battery suspension sliding rails. So after taking those three bolts out I do not see any reason you can not slide the wheel/fender Assembly right off the main body. 

[techyiam]

You are showcasing this suspension travel adjustment feature of the S20 better than any reviewers that I have seen. Roughly 6 cm of suspension travel adjustment is significant. One can use this feature for pedal height adjustment too. However, for the latter, the owner needs to understand its effects on the suspension action.

[techyiam]

45 minutes ago, Curt8892 said:

Why hasn’t anyone looked at this? They showed this adjustment ability in their promotional videos. I believe this his how you do the tire change to. 
 

I did not see any stopper at the bottom of the battery suspension sliding rails. So after taking those three bolts out I do not see any reason you can not slide the wheel/fender Assembly right off the main body. 

Thanks for mentioning the adjustment feature in their promotion. I missed it. I finally saw it on their www.kingsongs20.com website. Too bad Kingsong didn't also show the quick wheel removal procedure too. Unless it is not possible after all? Nah, this would be a big win for Kingsong, and I can't see how Kingsong would not be able to make this happen. 

[Miko.cz]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

You are showcasing this suspension travel adjustment feature of the S20 better than any reviewers that I have seen. Roughly 6 cm of suspension travel adjustment is significant. One can use this feature for pedal height adjustment too. However, for the latter, the owner needs to understand its effects on the suspension action.

hmm, maybe I missed something? Im still new to suspension and related things (also you see, my EN is limited).
But I think these photos shows minimum and maximum default height of pedals from ground (without suspension travel engaged because it was free of rider or ballast)

Edited March 3, 2022 by Miko.cz

[Curt8892]

I think

4 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Thanks for mentioning the adjustment feature in their promotion. I missed it. I finally saw it on their www.kingsongs20.com website. Too bad Kingsong didn't also show the quick wheel removal procedure too. Unless it is not possible after all? Nah, this would be a big win for Kingsong, and I can't see how Kingsong would not be able to make this happen. 

I think they are releasing all the features incrementally.
 

If you can see anything that would stop the wheel from being removed in that manner please advise. 
 

It is also very interesting that KS did the connector from the motor to the board as one single wire with out a junction box like the S18 and so many other wheels. Begode did the same on their Hero (maybe the other wheels to but I have not see it)

The difference between the two is KS allows you to connect the wires from the outside of the control board box, while Begode has had the wire running into the box. Meaning you have to open the box to disconnect the cable to the motor. 
 

To me it looks like Begode copied the design without knowing the purpose of the design and KS change their design to accommodate an easy tire change. 
 

All KS has to do know is implement a waterproof connectors for the motor cable and the lights. I am sure there are lots of options. 
 

[Curt8892]

2 hours ago, Miko.cz said:

I have two more photos, not very nice.
Two KS-S20 in opposite height positions of pedal (as we were told by distributor).
The left one was S20 parking on its back holder, not ready-to-go staying on the ground as the right one, so its very limited comparation :/
23cm(?) vs 17cm

Turn your off road wheel into a road racer😜

 

I like options. 

[supercurio]

Direct link to the "Adjustable Pedals" video render from https://www.kingsongs20.com/features
https://video.wixstatic.com/video/da6fdd_9b1eda7261a84ed59607852a39b3ead9/1080p/mp4/file.mp4

Very interesting! I asked someone with access to a S20 to take a look.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Miko.cz said:

hmm, maybe I missed something? Im still new to suspension and related things (also you see, my EN is limited).
But I think these photos shows these minimum and maximum default height of pedals from ground (without suspension travel engaged because it was free of rider or ballast)

Indeed they do. However, these minimum and maximum default height of pedals without a rider (unladen) already shows you how much suspension travel you could lose (well minus the hanger adjustment if they were indeed adjusted it). However, even if the pedal hanger was adjusted (at the bottom of the battery box), the difference would be small, when compared to the range of suspension travel adjustment. That is also why I said roughly 6 cm, not only because the taller pedal height S20 wasn't on the ground. Suspension travel is defined the by the difference in height of a point on the sprung weight from unladen to fully compressed.

You're right though, if only the pedal hanger was adjusted, suspension travel would not be affected. But that is not what was shown in the pictures. The lion share of the difference in pedal height came from the suspension travel adjustment. 

Edited March 3, 2022 by techyiam

[techyiam]

45 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Very interesting! I asked someone with access to a S20 to take a look.

You wouldn't happen to be able to add a little more honey to persuade this person to also check the quick wheel removal procedure on the S20? It would be cool if you could.

Edited March 3, 2022 by techyiam

[Paradox]

5 hours ago, Brendan "nog3" Halliday said:

They also warned that these bolts are thread locked with permanent (red) thread locker and will require heat to remove.

Will this be a big issue for flat tire changes or tire replacements?  Is having and using a heat gun a big deal or just one more small step for mankind?