Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[chanman]

Lubing up the sliding parts is pretty standard suspension stuff. I spray silicone on my s18 sliders every couple weeks to keep the suspension nice and buttery, but no actual disassembly required for that really to get it good enough. Not sure about the rubber parts on the S20, I had the impression the idea was to prevent the system from bottoming out hard in a destructive way.

Edited April 4, 2022 by chanman

[Rawnei]

25 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I never realized how much extra mechanical stuff a suspension adds to a EUC. Without suspension, it's literally just the motor turning, that's the only mechanical movement.

Now we have sliders and the suspension levers and whatnot...

Yes, more points of failure, all mechanical, that's why it's so important that it's robust.

[supercurio]

I'm currently attempting to get a few collabs with EUC YouTubers in order to discuss the S20 fire and Kingsong's response so far, with the idea of leveraging the analysis we built collectively based on all the material out here.
What we know, what we understood, what we don't know yet, what must be done.

Then the idea would be to follow-up as well when they give us more update.

Chatting with a medium/small safety-focused distributor highlighted that they have no impact whatsoever on what Kingsong will do here.
My goal is to make sure that all necessary hardware modifications are made before any of these 1000 wheels we heard about are shipped.

In order to reach this goal, I think putting pressure from a community point of view, setting clear expectations is the way to go.

 

[.....]

I have come to conclude that if you want to simply enjoy an euc and not worry, you have to just remain ignorant. Hold on to that fairy tale about the companies caring about quality or safety. THIS is about money and marketing, nothing more, nothing less. Lies, lies, lies and hope, thats the agenda. Some are better at it than others....

[Mango]

Simply don’t buy the product is enough motivation for them.

[Funky]

56 minutes ago, Mango said:

Simply don’t buy the product is enough motivation for them.

The thing is we people are many.. They will get their profit margin at release/preorder. Anything they sell afterwards just adds $$$.

Gotway and their fire, etc.. Shit products. Yet people still buy them. Be people who don't know what they are buying. Or people who don't care, are ignorantly blissful. 

[Forwardnbak]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

Simply don’t buy the product is

the Guinea kids 
(I think I might be the Guinea pig this time) 

I’ll put my roast ham on the line.

still deciding, but mmmm bacon! 

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, supercurio said:

I'm currently attempting to get a few collabs with EUC YouTubers in order to discuss the S20 fire and Kingsong's response so far, with the idea of leveraging the analysis we built collectively based on all the material out here.
What we know, what we understood, what we don't know yet, what must be done.

Then the idea would be to follow-up as well when they give us more update.

Chatting with a medium/small safety-focused distributor highlighted that they have no impact whatsoever on what Kingsong will do here.
My goal is to make sure that all necessary hardware modifications are made before any of these 1000 wheels we heard about are shipped.

In order to reach this goal, I think putting pressure from a community point of view, setting clear expectations is the way to go.

 

Maybe before adding another pack to the dumpster fire, consider letting the third party report come out... those people are presumably qualified to make comments from a position of knowledge of the design. The rest of us, self included, are looking at the outside of a black (blackened? ) box and trying to decide which of the magic parts that we don't fully understand MUST BE CHANGED.

Keep in mind that few things in life are easier to dismiss than the opinions of "experts" posting on the internet. What's the saying?? Something like "it takes a single person to make a big mistake, to really fork things up you want a committee".

Edited April 4, 2022 by Tawpie

[Paul A]

Not sure YouTubers or  members should be regarded as having the expertise to make engineering analysis...

Might be a little misguided.

[supercurio]

35 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Maybe before adding another pack to the dumpster fire, consider letting the third party report come out... those people are presumably qualified to make comments from a position of knowledge of the design. The rest of us, self included, are looking at the outside of a black (blackened? ) box and trying to decide which of the magic parts that we don't fully understand MUST BE CHANGED.

Keep in mind that few things in life are easier to dismiss than the opinions of "experts" posting on the internet. What's the saying?? Something like "it takes a single person to make a big mistake, to really fork things up you want a committee".

The process of convincing a host of this new/different content format, and preparation will take a few days.

In the meantime, KS might convince some or most distributors to start shipping a bunch of units, while we would be waiting to have all the reports, all the 3rd party reviews, all the extra information to have these discussions reach a broader audience.
Aka maybe eWheels would hold for longer to wait for hardware fixes, with everyone else gave in.

An idea for this format would not to speak out of authority (I am nobody and have none) but raise a few reasonable points we identified together in the community, so that everyone can use it as help to make up their own mind later - without having to spend forever trying to research everything individually.
I expect the subject will be developing, so updates and corrections will be needed: that should be built in the format.

[Tawpie]

44 minutes ago, supercurio said:

In the meantime, KS might convince some or most distributors to start shipping a bunch of units

Sad, but possible. On the 'good' side, I haven't heard that any units have left China yet so other than airfreighting a few out, there won't be many in consumer hands for 6 weeks.

I did understand that eWheels was supposed to receive some non-demo units and "some" of the day 1 orders were actually slated to leave eWheels in late February (they were going to collect final payment). But since we haven't heard anyone bragging about getting their consumer wheel yet, either that was incorrect or eWheels didn't send the wheels out. Hoping that eWheels has still got our backs.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Tawpie

[Paul A]

https://www.ewheels.com/product/king-song-s20-eagle-100-deposit/

King Song S20 Eagle. $100 Deposit

Tentative price of $3,200, mass production arrivals expected in July

[Paul A]

https://www.euco.us/products/king-song-s20-eagle-preorder-deposit

King Song S20 "Eagle" - Preorder

Units are expected to leave the King Song factory in Q2 2022, and the full price is expected to be around $3199.

[NErider]

When the S18 was developing and there were delays and projections on delivery,  ewheels would forward updates to the customers that pre-ordered. That would be nice to have the same info for this wheel too. It seems like over 4 months has been added to the delivery date? Or is that for new orders only? 

[Cress]

5 hours ago, supercurio said:

I'm currently attempting to get a few collabs with EUC YouTubers in order to discuss the S20 fire and Kingsong's response so far, with the idea of leveraging the analysis we built collectively based on all the material out here.
What we know, what we understood, what we don't know yet, what must be done.

Then the idea would be to follow-up as well when they give us more update.

Chatting with a medium/small safety-focused distributor highlighted that they have no impact whatsoever on what Kingsong will do here.
My goal is to make sure that all necessary hardware modifications are made before any of these 1000 wheels we heard about are shipped.

In order to reach this goal, I think putting pressure from a community point of view, setting clear expectations is the way to go.

 

 

@supercurio's plan to reach EUC buyers/enthusiasts over YouTube is politics that will affect Manufacturers positively.  YouTube informs  Buyers; look at view counters.  Informed Buyers move markets.  

YouTube is a good direction, I hope Distributors think the same.  Fewer design errors and fewer component failures make successful products.  That's the point.

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Cress

[fryman]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Sad, but possible. On the 'good' side, I haven't heard that any units have left China yet so other than airfreighting a few out, there won't be many in consumer hands for 6 weeks.

I did understand that eWheels was supposed to receive some non-demo units and "some" of the day 1 orders were actually slated to leave eWheels in late February (they were going to collect final payment). But since we haven't heard anyone bragging about getting their consumer wheel yet, either that was incorrect or eWheels didn't send the wheels out. Hoping that eWheels has still got our backs.

@Dufacknowledged that Ewheels will not ship the wheels they have until they are satisfied they are safe. Ewheels will continue to have our backs.

[UtahRider]

22 hours ago, Planemo said:

I admire your faith in distributors doing 'the right thing'. And even if they do support you financially with your 'lemon' wheel, they certainly won't assist with broken bones or house fires as a result of said lemon. It's the latter which I have somewhat more of a problem with.

Um, I don’t need anyone telling me the risks of purchasing an EUC, I know plan well. Don’t buy it if it’s too much of a risk for you but for me, the low risk of an EUC burning down my mansion is worth it. They make me happy.

[TantasStarke]

2 minutes ago, UtahRider said:

Um, I don’t need anyone telling me the risks of purchasing an EUC, I know plan well. Don’t buy it if it’s too much of a risk for you but for me, the low risk of an EUC burning down my mansion is worth it. They make me happy.

I get what you and Planemo are saying, I think he's trying to say that distributors have sold wheels with issues before, like the Inmotion V12 cutouts, or just the general fires that happen with gotway/begode (not an anti-gw guy, I love my gw wheel). You clearly have plenty of wheels under your belt so it's not like you don't know what you're doing, Planemo is just trying to tell you that if the wheel is faulty and you get injured or it explodes and damages your property you won't get much help from the distributors, besides maybe a replacement wheel.

Get whatever wheel you want and ride on brother 🤙

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, UtahRider said:

Um, I don’t need anyone telling me the risks of purchasing an EUC

Calm down mate. I was only responding to your statement that if you got a lemon then you were happy that your preferred dealer would sort everything out. I was pointing out that NO dealer will replace your house or pay your medical bills/wages as a result of said lemon putting you in hospital. I simply didn't want a newbie to read your comment and think that a reputable dealer is like an insurance policy.

IMO, euc's are risky enough as it is. We all know there are occasional lemons. But I'm not going to buy a wheel from anyone (reputable dealers included) that has additional risk over and above the usual risks. V12, S20 and any Begode/GW with the older 900Wh packs are cases in point. You fill your boots though. As the previous poster said, ride on.

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, UtahRider said:

Um, I don’t need anyone telling me the risks of purchasing an EUC, I know plan well. Don’t buy it if it’s too much of a risk for you but for me, the low risk of an EUC burning down my mansion is worth it. They make me happy.

I guess not. Just looking at your profile, you own an inMotion and a Kingsong wheel. The EX is Gotway/Begode wheel is 6p. The only Gotway/Begode wheel that you own that carries the 900 Wh battery pack is the 4p RS19-T. But you replaced the battery packs with molicel. So, it does appear you know how to mitigate fire risk, as well as to have major fun. RS19-T with molicel must be a fun wheel.

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, fryman said:

Dufacknowledged that Ewheels will not ship the wheels they have until they are satisfied they are safe. Ewheels will continue to have our backs.

Kudos to Jason to be sure. Duf even said he was willing to take his KS S20B as is now, and to sign a waiver to relieve eWheels of any liability, and Jason refused.

What I am curious about is how is Jason storing the 40 KS S20B's now, in light of the fact he just recently lost a tech center/warehouse to fire?

[Chriull]

38 minutes ago, techyiam said:

What I am curious about is how is Jason storing the 40 KS S20B's now, in light of the fact he just recently lost a tech center/warehouse to fire?

With the new bms firmware which does not reset itself after some overburden/short circuit the biggest problem should be resolved.

So either the upgrade or otherwise unplugging the battery should make the S20 quite risk free - if the statement of KS is about true.

[Paul A]

With the new BMS firmware, maybe should replicate the U-Stride test ride.

Determine if the mosfets/capacitors will fail again, and if it results in an explosion flamethrower again.

[Miko.cz]

I just read post by my distributor that KS will solve it also by hw update.
Source (2nd post, I dont have FB - unable to copy direct link)
"V novém modelu chyba bude odstraněna nejen ze firmwaru, ale budou použité doplňující prvky pro elektrickou ochranu samotných článku a baterii jako celku."
EN translation (mine... please ignore mistakes): In the new model bug will be fixed not only in firmware, but also additional protection for electrical safety will be applied to individual cells and also battery pack.

Update: Based on missing confirmation by any other here I have tried to verify it. Mentioned distributor want to wait for final solution presented by KingSong and 3rd party analyze as it is now under processing and could change the situation again. =So no, sorry, I cannot confirm my previous words and now I categorize it as unverified for final product :/

Edited April 6, 2022 by Miko.cz
Verification

[PourUC]

On 4/3/2022 at 10:37 PM, Mango said:

There are plenty of EUCs that have sustained crazy amounts of crashes, overleans, etc but they don’t spontaneously turn into a massive fireball. This may be the first pre-production EUC in history that had their battery blow up after an overpower situation / blown MOSFET.

If you are willing to take the risk, why not pre-order the Begode Master. Spec-wise, it trumps the S22 in almost every metric. I hope you are not buying the S22 based solely on looks.

Being a bit... hyperbolic.

Loads of wheels have had their batteries go into thermal runaway. The jet like affect isn't some super defect that KS have discovered. It's just thermal runaway inside an enclosure with a small exit for the fumes and flames.

If the S20 was in a plastic battery enclosure, the same thing would happen. Once a pack goes into thermal runaway it's toast.  We've seen this time and time again, just low pressure.