Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[.....]

Just now, RagingGrandpa said:

It's got the torque of the 16X, the speed of the C30's, and the ride of the S18! Sounds excellent for aggressive paved-surface riding.

This is exactly what I assume, even tho marketing sells more wheels when they claim its an 'off-road' beast. Some us us think offroad entails more than flat groomed dirt.

[Rawnei]

2 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

I think the best EUC we have for this type of terrain today is MSuper C38 + fiberglass bodyguard; and S20 is not going to improve upon it.

Unfortunately the MSuper has the old axle design which is a big downside for a heavy rider doing more advanced stuff whereas the hollow design is most likely much more durable, I also believe that suspension might change things a bit by offloading the motor in certain scenarios.

[RagingGrandpa]

1 minute ago, Rawnei said:

Unfortunately the MSuper has the old axle design

I was recommending: MSuper RS with the gen2 hollowcore C38

[winterwheel]

On 9/12/2021 at 10:03 AM, UniMe said:

None of the existing wheels are really there yet and need to be 'babied' to not burn them out, blow up the suspension etc.

I ride the EX hard and fast, technical off-roading included, I don't baby it in any way. 245lbs.

[Rawnei]

29 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

I was recommending: MSuper RS with the gen2 hollowcore C38

Which is not so great for off-roading in wet or dirty surroundings. 😉

[Heyzeus]

7 hours ago, Paul A said:

Ejecting from any fighter jet can be deadly.

Tom Cruise lost his best friend to this.

RIP Goose

Edited September 13, 2021 by Heyzeus

[ir_fuel]

15 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

"Onewheel trails"

So true this  

[Paul A]

Cruise is actually a pilot, owns and flies the legendary P-51 Mustang fighter plane.

Stunt pilot Art Scholl died in filming of Top Gun.

[Heyzeus]

On 9/13/2021 at 8:32 AM, RagingGrandpa said:

"Onewheel trails"

I see this kid riding a onewheel pretty fast around my apartment community with no helmet or wrist guards.

There's that part of me that wants to say to the parent "hey I ride EUC's and helmets and wristguards are important on those, and one wheels are even more prone to cut out and result in particularly bad falls when they do so maybe get a full face for your kid and some wrist guards".

But...I just mind my own business cause I don't need some parent being like "why you watching my kid" when I'm not and I just noticed them while walking my dog.

[spitfire1337]

First non render look 👀

[Jon Stern]

1 hour ago, spitfire1337 said:

First non render look 👀

What? It's supposed to be a 20-inch wheel. That's only like 2-inches high! Is it a wheel for hamsters? 

[Twerd68]

Pedal height question. Sorry about the mixed up post. My experience trail riding has been that pedal height is a real limiting factor. I hit objects often. The S20, as I read the specs is higher but gives that height right back with the shock. I.e. the effective height is still about 6.x inches. Any suggestions from others on managing hitting roots and rocks and/or EUCs that have done better there. 

[eucVibes]

https://youtube.com/shorts/u1MuldwOwrY

[OldFartRides]

10 hours ago, Twerd68 said:

Pedal height question. Sorry about the mixed up post. My experience trail riding has been that pedal height is a real limiting factor. I hit objects often. The S20, as I read the specs is higher but gives that height right back with the shock. I.e. the effective height is still about 6.x inches. Any suggestions from others on managing hitting roots and rocks and/or EUCs that have done better there. 

Pedal clip just goes with the territory. That said, riding slower, leaning the wheel away from the projection, and walking the wheel through really tough spots are all things that help. I know some people shim their pedals into a “v” position as well.

I get more pedal clip as I get wore out.

Keep the rubber side down and enjoy !

P.S. Just looked at the stock s18 pedals and they are already slightly tilted up. Don’t think I’d want them shimmed up much more.

Edited September 15, 2021 by OldFartRides
P.S.

[Heyzeus]

15 hours ago, spitfire1337 said:

First non render look 👀

Little did people know KingSong is a master of tinder level forced perspective pics and this is just a 2 inch model 

 

14 hours ago, eucVibes said:

https://youtube.com/shorts/u1MuldwOwrY

well now you just ruined my fun 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Heyzeus

[mrelwood]

16 hours ago, Twerd68 said:

Pedal height question. Sorry about the mixed up post. My experience trail riding has been that pedal height is a real limiting factor. I hit objects often. The S20, as I read the specs is higher but gives that height right back with the shock. I.e. the effective height is still about 6.x inches.

I’m not sure how or if you have confirmed this number, but the S20 has both a 3 position pedal height adjustment and a preload adjustment for the suspension spring. Everybody should be able to get close enough to their preferred riding height.

It took me a group off-road section to understand how fundamentally the V11 has transformed my ability to simply ride through so many obstacles that all other wheels, S18 included, have trouble with. The pedal height at a “regular” sag is absolutely marvelous for just the kind of riding you talk about.

 If I’m not mistaken, the unloaded pedal height of the S20 will be close to that of the V11. The S20 has a longer throw, so it should ride a little lower than the V11, but we should definitely not be talking about any “regular” pedal heights.

 

7 hours ago, OldFartRides said:

Pedal clip just goes with the territory.

Hmm. I don’t seem to think so. The only times I’ve clipped a pedal in the last 12 months was when shortly trying out an S18…  I was so used to the “accessibility” of the V11 that I didn’t come to think of how much lower I was riding. The roots tried to eat me.

[Lukasz]

9 hours ago, OldFartRides said:

Pedal clip just goes with the territory. That said, riding slower, leaning the wheel away from the projection, and walking the wheel through really tough spots are all things that help. I know some people shim their pedals into a “v” position as well.

I get more pedal clip as I get wore out.

Keep the rubber side down and enjoy !

P.S. Just looked at the stock s18 pedals and they are already slightly tilted up. Don’t think I’d want them shimmed up much more.

S20 will have 3 pedals positions set in similar way to S18 - so 10mm up or 10mm down from middle position. For S18 custom nylon pedals can be set higher using thin aluminum sheet used as spacer, but key for the proper contact with wheel is that You keep the grip even when water/mud/snow gets on the pedals   

Edited September 15, 2021 by Lukasz

[Electric Dreams]

On 9/2/2021 at 7:21 PM, supercurio said:

Thanks @Jack King Song for adding the CST C6004 to the options considered, I wonder if you heard about it before the comment I left on YouTube!

I didn't expect the C6004 to win any poll since it's a niche tire at the moment, hard to find and which can be ordered only with substantial shipping fees from Ebuy7 or Alibaba, but @fbhb has done a good job popularising his great find here 

I've been using the C6004 on my Sherman V2 (wide 60mm rim) for 1000km+ and it's been my favorite tire so far - all wheels & all tires considered.

Its most significant characteristics:

• No tram-lining
  It doesn't follow lines, cracks, divots rocks or inclines. The tire doesn't push the wheel on its side or alter the direction by itself.
  IMO a requirement for safe aggressive riding in city and performance off-road.
• Easy turning at low to medium speed
  Nimble wheel which can be turned and leaned without effort, reactive to rider's input. Even at Sherman weights. Fine and precise direction control. Pleasant for casual riding.
• Strong gyro effect gradually increasing with speed
  Starts to get noticeable at 45 km/h. The tire makes the wheel keep its lean angle and direction unless the rider changes them with intent.
  Needs a bit of practice to change direction at high speed (counter steering and weight transfer)
  Makes the wheel safe and relaxing at speed. Very comforting seated also.
• Consistent turning, unaffected by road conditions
  Contrary to some other tires I've tested, the tire keeps tracking its direction regardless of how irregular the surface is, on or off-road.
  It's most helpful in fast turns as the rider can remain confident, without need to correct for unexpected oscillations or direction changes.
• Natural leaning at all speeds
  The tire doesn't fight the rider to keep the wheel upright. The wheel flows and leans with the rider without effort in turns.
  In contrast with some tires which require the rider to hang off the side to get enough steering.
• Very good comfort
  Comfortable at all tire pressures. Running 27 PSI at the moment on Sherman (68kg rider) whereas I couldn't stand more than 22 PSI on Michelin City Pro.
  It becomes more supple at lower tire pressure as expected, with a gradual but moderate loss of steering precision due to its rigid construction.
  I don't understand how it can be so comfortable despite how hard the tire is out of the box.
• Perfect grip so far
  Can't complain here, no loss of traction in 1000km on asphalt or off-road, including high speed gravel and forest tracks. Performed well on wet and muddy off-road too.
  I can't comment on wet asphalt yet.
• Low bounce
  It seems that tire is made of a hard enough carcass and rubber to disperse energy instead of bouncing like a softer tire would.
• Good rim protection
  Thanks to its good comfort at higher pressures, thick rubber (for an EUC street tire), good height and hard carcass.
  Also comparing to Michelin City Pro 80/90-14 which was a disaster here.

Downsides so far:

• Doesn't align or center itself on the rim
  I had to massage the tire deflated, wheel on its side to get it centered correctly after an unsatisfactory experience on the initial setup. In comparison, the Michelin City Pro was 100% centered in all directions right away.
  Fortunately, the tire stayed aligned after that, problem entirely solved.
  Better than the K262 knobby which needed periodic re-seating.
  Factory install should take this into account.
• (not a problem for me): the tire provides too much gyro-like stability for effortless high-speed deep carve.

I'm sure the riding characteristics differ to some extent on wheels with a narrower rim and another weight distribution.

Supporting 100mm wide tires, the S20 should also use a wide rim: 40mm only might lead to the tire losing its expected shape or getting off the rim with very wide rubber.
Could you confirm @Jack King Song?

Regardless of what tire we are using, we are updating the RIM width so that it matches with more tires on the market. Meaning: wider tire= better traction =better offroading

Just now, Jack King Song said:

Regardless of what tire we are using, we are updating the RIM width so that it matches with more tires on the market. Meaning: wider tire= better traction =better offroading

Also it wont look as weird to have a skinny tire on the S20 

[That Guy]

So, @Jack King Song, how was the ride?... ;-)

[EMA]

[itsmark]

IDK what suspension the S20 comes with. When I asked @Jack King Song a few pages back he said that the current (at the time) specs of the S20 on the website were wrong and that it would come with a DNM RCP-2S which was then updated on the FAQ page of the website (and still shows). Now the site has a new page, https://www.kingsongs20.com/spec, that lists the shock as a GR-27RC (IDK what this even is, I can't find anything on google). Maybe old specs were copied onto the new part of the site? Also, does the wheel come with a 5A charger or a 6A charger?

Edited September 16, 2021 by itsmark

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, itsmark said:

Also, does the wheel come with a 5A charger or a 6A charger?

In my understanding they changed to 5A to easier reach the 10A max charging current.

[itsmark]

4 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

In my understanding they changed to 5A to easier reach the 10A max charging current.

That's what I thought. But that means the specs page is wrong about that too.

[That Guy]

Just realised, I will be able to ride this wheel only for a year or two... Better get it sooner!... :-)

[Lukasz]

29 minutes ago, That Guy said:

Just realised, I will be able to ride this wheel only for a year or two... Better get it sooner!... :-)

I am doomed already! 

btw - as some of You may know I produce mods for S18 - one of the last US customers which we chatted a while with  stated that he is 78 years old and he rides S18!