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Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)


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1 hour ago, Jack King Song said:

For example I'm a 86-89kg rider, depends if I had my dose of fried chicken that day. But I would be opting for 1000lbs. We had riders who were 70kg and they felt the 750lbs was better. I would say give it a shot first before upgrading. 

Thanks for the reply, any tips for potential resellers if you are looking to replace the spring and/or model/name/specs (what do you search for to find a potential reseller for correct spring)?

 

1 hour ago, Jack King Song said:

I understand you're view but at the same time if we didn't open it up for pre-orders we would be bombarded by the amount of messages. We do not owe you an apology since we are not forcing you to pay for an S20 just based off the render, that is purely your choice. I agree though, some riders even myself if I was shelling out my own money would wait for an actual product until putting down the pre-order but too many riders are too eager! 

Well this is entirely your fault for making such an attractive wheel. ;)

Edited by Rawnei
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1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I don't really understand how NOT opening for pre-orders would limit messages. I am also in awe of the marketing tactics for sure. Whatever gets those wheels sold, do that. You don't owe me ANY apology for the s20. I have no real horse in that race. I was referring to the s18 that I watched the release vid, promptly prepaid, eagerly awaited and was disappointed with.  It hurt worse as I was a devout KS fanboi and just love my 18L and 18xl's. My reluctance about the s20 is fueled by the memory of the s18 I sold at a loss.

I REALLY hope the s20 isnt rushed and your design team is NOT undermined by the build staff. I REALLY hope that the pre-release info isnt hyped. I REALLY hope you guys properly test and retest and stick to a build and quality standard that is enough to regain the trust of myself and many others. You guys can make a great wheel. You guys can design a great wheel. Can you guys freaking build  a quantity of them to meet these specs? Wheels that will have all its screws, proper wiring, proper bushings, balanced rims, quality bearings, quality capacitors, quality boards, quality solder, quality connectors, proper overload protection, proper alloys and ALL that stuff that makes a company become the TOP builder by miles? The technology is there. The materials can be purchased and formulated. The cutting corners can be avoided. The testing CAN be done. The real question is... WILL YOU? I know people ask more than is technically possible or even affordable to try and build. I am not asking that. I am merely asking that you guys respect the insight and talent of the design team and build a wheel that stand HIGH above the rest in quality. Technology is what it is. Everyone is playing in the same game with the same basic limitations. I wanna see the unthinkable happen.... superior from top to bottom in the small details.

It would be great to have all this top/quality specs... but in such case construction cost would rise over the roof, testing would take another year, and per unit cost would be something like 5k USD or more. Key in this game is to keep balance of those factors with real world. Assembly quality must be improved - bearings can not be hammered into their beds and crooked, key safety issues must be tested, however we shall understand that all early users of the unicycles are in fact testers. We agree with that and it is no other way around in fact in current world - EU/US/JP producers of electric unicycles does not exist.  If You want quality - wait for second or even better third production batch - those shall have major issues addressed.  I am within early adopters group, I design mods and improvements, so I am OK with current approach.  

Edited by Lukasz
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1 hour ago, Lukasz said:

It would be great to have all this top/quality specs... but in such case construction cost would rise over the roof, testing would take another year, and per unit cost would be something like 5k USD or more. Key in this game is to keep balance of those factors with real world. Assembly quality must be improved - bearings can not be hammered into their beds and crooked, key safety issues must be tested, however we shall understand that all early users of the unicycles are in fact testers. We agree with that and it is no other way around in fact in current world - EU/US/JP producers of electric unicycles does not exist.  If You want quality - wait for second or even better third production batch - those shall have major issues addressed.  I am within early adopters group, I design mods and improvements, so I am OK with current approach.  

Im very new to the EUC world and im still learning but from what you are saying all i hear is that you are prepared to push out an insuperior wheel so that the early buyers will test it for you and you will learn from those issues and the 2nd and 3rd batches will have the improved quality. 

Sorry but that completely puts me off buying a 1st production wheel at the same price that a 2nd or 3rd batch will cost but they will have significantly less issues. That doesnt sit right with me and smacks of profit over customer care. 

I would rather wait the extra year for you guys to do the testing, after all you are supposed to be the experts!!!

If you want your early users to be testers then give them the product at a significantly lower price or even free.

But thank you for making my next choice of wheel a whole lot easier because if this is King Songs attitude to customers then i certainly will not be one of them!!!

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18 minutes ago, Darren Crosbie-Rowlands said:

But thank you for making my next choice of wheel a whole lot easier because if this is King Songs attitude to customers then i certainly will not be one of them!!!

This is the attitude I find with most manufacturers. 

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Just now, div said:

The attitude of explaining balance of cost and result? 🤔

The attitude of releasing wheels before fully tested.  Letting your first sales be your beta testers. 

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6 minutes ago, Paradox said:

The attitude of releasing wheels before fully tested.  Letting your first sales be your beta testers. 

@Lukasz explained the reason why. Just dont buy early batches if you dont trust them. I'd also prefer perfection right of the batt, but the world of small production doesn't work like that. If they where to be perfect they would release much later, and or more expensive. And it would be the same as waiting for batch 2-3 except the ones wanting it early couldn't get it.

Edited by div
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1 minute ago, div said:

@Lukasz explained the reason why. Just dont buy early batches if you dont trust them.

I understand the reasons why.  I just said I find this true with most manufacturers.  Singling out KingSong would be wrong.  This was the purpose of my post. 

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Think manufacturers do try to uphold highest QC.

There are costs involved with reputational damage, repairs, parts, warranty claims etc.

Early adopters are not taking all total risks.

The backing of reputable distributors for the customer is perhaps just one of many assurances that gives early adopters confidence.

Perhaps looking at the responses of manufacturers when problems have arisen before, gives an indication of how much they care.

Some brands are better, some not so much.

 

Think:  Car recalls.  Takata airbags.  VW uncontrolled acceleration deaths.  Tesla auto pilot fatalities.  etc.

 

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The independent, non sponsored, youtubers with large followings and influence, take on the role of guinea pigs for everyone to benefit from.

Their testing and knowledgeable/experienced reviews, they perform the role of beta testers.

Think manufacturers test their products as best they can before release.

They probably don't want negative publicity and loss of trust in their reputation, they want your sale and future sales, good recommendation to others.

Don't need to be an early adopter, others are doing it for you for free.

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Darren Crosbie-Rowlands said:

If you want your early users to be testers then give them the product at a significantly lower price or even free.

I agree with you. These manufacturers should charge a lowest price for first adopters and then gradually increase it each generation due to refinements/enhancements/etc. If this became an industry standard, I suspect that we would all buy into the policy.

Perhaps this is what Veteran did with the Sherman. They said that it was because of battery cost but during this time, I was building battery packs and didn't get hit by this supposed increased cost.

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Hello @Jack King Song  thank You for the update - this is positive news that You did not rush before, and I hope that current development will bring good, well thought and designed wheel.  I am looking forward to use it as early adopter and provide opinion/development thoughts which will allow to ensure that next batches for cautious buyers will be even better.  Pandemic brought us some new challenges but also developed true worldwide cooperation to higher level  - also in terms of design, product development, testing, etc. This allows such smaller companies (which in no way can be compared to auto makers) supported by enthusiast  / affiliate co-workers to reach much popularity and gain broader client base.  

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  • mrelwood changed the title to Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

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