@shanesplanet is going to kill me...

[Paulo Mesquita]

Yes, I'm a dead man. I just sold the V11 and I'm going to plunge into the purchase of 4th batch KS S18 that is coming out next May. Please don't tell @ShanesPlanetor I'll be in serious trouble.

I decided to go for the S18 for a few simple reasons:

1) The most important: the V11 is more of a log ride wheel and I'm more into maneuvering in small dead ends, narrow roads, etc.

2) I really don't like having such high pedals. 22cm are really a pain when you're 61, weigh, fully geared, 96kgs and are only 1.76 tall. It's like mounting an elephant. particularly when you're somewhat tired of riding and doing exercises for over 15/18kms and need to dismount and remount. The legs aren't there anymore and it's a real pain in the a*s.

3) I talked with Andrey at MyEWheel and he said the these last batches have been of much better quality that the original ones that some unfortunate souls had the bad luck to buy....(hint)

So, soon I'll be just riding only KingSongs...again...

[.....]

No worries man, I really hope they have improved build. If people don't keep buynig them, KS won't bother investing to improve. Ionly have experience with the first release and ONLY the single s18 euc they sent ME. Im just one of hundreds/thousands that have tried the s18. It could very well be that I was one of the only ones who recieved a lemon. It could also be that they have fixed nearly everything. I just keep going on and on about MY experience, because its all I have to base my opinion on. SOMEONE has to bitch and moan and not dance around the mistakes. People have a tendency to downplay any negatives, when it comes to something they spent hard earned money on. We all want to beam with happiness when we spend so much. Me... I'd bitch about the taxes on winning the lottery.

Fwiw, I think its nice that we have both ends of the spectrum of people, to listen/ignore opinions of. Wishfull thinking, but MAYBE because of my negativity, others are going to inspect and expect MORE. If i have helped raise the smallest bit of doubt, thats a GOOD thing. When you have a small amount of doubt, you are more likely to be critical of mistakes and actauly inspect and verify your gear. I expect perfection. Of course we will never see it, but if you aim for perfection, youll end up with better results than if you aim for mediocracy. I KNOW my anger about the s18 is due to the betrayal I felt. It was only worsened by the fact that I LOVE my 18L and thus, expected more from KS.

Im curious to see what YOU think of the compare. Are you going to have the v11 AND s18 for a bit at the same time? The s18 is also not quite as easily handled in tighter spots at slow speeds as your 16x i bet. I'll be expecting to hear your opinions and how it compares to the v11 and the 16X. DO NOT sell the 16x until you reach definitive conclusions! I am a big fan of the ks power delivery in my 18L. I can only hope that its similar across their others. Iirc, the s18 felt VERY similar to the 18L. I could definitely feel that they were in the same family. This is a GREAT thing.

Im about to call it quits on being much for off-road riding. I truly enjoy the street, and my knees just dont like offroad. Even with a suspension wheel, I will just push and push  until it also ruins the knees or I overpower the wheel. I could definitely see a sherman type wheel with suspension, being a thing. Hope springs eternal. Tbh, I am somehow content with what wheels I have atm. Its quite a freeing feeling to know that you needn't look for another as current ability and needs are being met. This is apt to change, but atm, I see no spectacular upgrades out there for me atm.

Keep me posted you fukstik! YOu took to this euc thing like a duck to water.

[Paulo Mesquita]

6 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

No worries man, I really hope they have improved build. If people don't keep buynig them, KS won't bother investing to improve. Ionly have experience with the first release and ONLY the single s18 euc they sent ME. Im just one of hundreds/thousands that have tried the s18. It could very well be that I was one of the only ones who recieved a lemon. It could also be that they have fixed nearly everything. I just keep going on and on about MY experience, because its all I have to base my opinion on. SOMEONE has to bitch and moan and not dance around the mistakes. People have a tendency to downplay any negatives, when it comes to something they spent hard earned money on. We all want to beam with happiness when we spend so much. Me... I'd bitch about the taxes on winning the lottery.

Fwiw, I think its nice that we have both ends of the spectrum of people, to listen/ignore opinions of. Wishfull thinking, but MAYBE because of my negativity, others are going to inspect and expect MORE. If i have helped raise the smallest bit of doubt, thats a GOOD thing. When you have a small amount of doubt, you are more likely to be critical of mistakes and actauly inspect and verify your gear. I expect perfection. Of course we will never see it, but if you aim for perfection, youll end up with better results than if you aim for mediocracy. I KNOW my anger about the s18 is due to the betrayal I felt. It was only worsened by the fact that I LOVE my 18L and thus, expected more from KS.

Im curious to see what YOU think of the compare. Are you going to have the v11 AND s18 for a bit at the same time? The s18 is also not quite as easily handled in tighter spots at slow speeds as your 16x i bet. I'll be expecting to hear your opinions and how it compares to the v11 and the 16X. DO NOT sell the 16x until you reach definitive conclusions! I am a big fan of the ks power delivery in my 18L. I can only hope that its similar across their others. Iirc, the s18 felt VERY similar to the 18L. I could definitely feel that they were in the same family. This is a GREAT thing.

Im about to call it quits on being much for off-road riding. I truly enjoy the street, and my knees just dont like offroad. Even with a suspension wheel, I will just push and push  until it also ruins the knees or I overpower the wheel. I could definitely see a sherman type wheel with suspension, being a thing. Hope springs eternal. Tbh, I am somehow content with what wheels I have atm. Its quite a freeing feeling to know that you needn't look for another as current ability and needs are being met. This is apt to change, but atm, I see no spectacular upgrades out there for me atm.

Keep me posted you fukstik! YOu took to this euc thing like a duck to water.

I can't have the V11 and the s18 at the same time but I will remember the difference for sure. The v11 has a very distinctive feel to the ride. The S18 from what Andrey told me (it's his favorite wheel and he has even let one of his team ride his V11 (which he doesn't like so much). What he told me, besides the fact that the assembling and and parts have improved, is that riding the S18 feels very much like riding the 16X.

@ShanesPlanet, One thing you can be sure of....the 16X is going nowhere! I'm totally in love with the little beast!!!

[meepmeepmayer]

Once you've ridden the S18 a bit, it would be cool to hear your comparison.

[fbhb]

1 hour ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

What he told me, besides the fact that the assembling and and parts have improved, is that riding the S18 feels very much like riding the 16X.

I can 100% agree with how nimble the S18 feels and would not be at all surprised with any direct comparisons made to the 16X!  It really does handle quite unlike an 18inch wheel and in that department especially feels like a much smaller/lighter wheel (@Marty Backe will back/Backe that up ). 

Both of these attributes are of course ideal for technical trail riding as well as tight manoeuvres on road/street, so I feel sure you will get on well with it for those reasons, in contrast to the much higher pedals of the V11. 

Just my 2 cents.

Edited April 3, 2021 by fbhb

[Paulo Mesquita]

23 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Once you've ridden the S18 a bit, it would be cool to hear your comparison.

That's the plan 😊

[Paulo Mesquita]

10 minutes ago, fbhb said:

I can 100% agree with how nimble the S18 feels and would not be at all surprised with any direct comparisons made to the 16X!  It really does handle quite unlike an 18inch wheel and in that department especially feels like a much smaller/lighter wheel (@Marty Backe will back/Backe that up ). 

Both of these attributes are of course ideal for technical trail riding as well as tight manoeuvres on road/street, so I feel sure you will get on well with it for those reasons, in contrast to the much higher pedals of the V11. 

Just my 2 cents.

THAT... is what I'm hoping for and it's great to hear. Thanks mate. 

[RetroThruster]

You know I mentioned the S18 to Shane and he almost jack-slapped me so I walked away from the idea:)  Kidding, but he did share some insight why the 1st batch wasn't for him and we agreed on all points, could his issues have been ironed out, maybe but if you don't jive with the wheel, you may as well walk away and try something else.  I rode RockyTop's S18 briefly and liked it but I only rode it in a parking lot and was scared to death to drop it so I can't give much insight, it felt nice though and watching him ride it, it appeared to soak up bumps very well and he's a big dude which shows that it's a robust wheel.  Most of my riding is on grass whether my yard or nearby fields so the S18 remains an attractive wheel to me, the small'ish battery would not be an issue.

 

 

[mrelwood]

22 hours ago, fbhb said:

I can 100% agree with how nimble the S18 feels and would not be at all surprised with any direct comparisons made to the 16X!  It really does handle quite unlike an 18inch wheel and in that department especially feels like a much smaller/lighter wheel (@Marty Backe will back/Backe that up ). 

Both of these attributes are of course ideal for technical trail riding as well as tight manoeuvres on road/street, so I feel sure you will get on well with it for those reasons, in contrast to the much higher pedals of the V11. 

Just my 2 cents.

I’m more than aware that opinions can differ widely, but to read exactly opposite, precise descriptions is what I don’t fully understand.

For me (193cm tall, 105kg) the width of the S18 at the top prevented me from tilting the wheel enough for any tight turns, making it even less nimble than the 18XL despite the difference in tire width supposedly being in S18’s favor. And the slipperiest of tires ever factory installed on an EUC prevents the S18 from even entering the woods under anything else but perfectly dry conditions. And even then some taller roots would easily be the end of it.

 Comfort is of course very personal thing, but the strong contours of the S18 side pads doesn’t seem to fit a lot of riders very well.

 Like @ShanesPlanet’s, my experience on the S18 is from early batches. The suspension was barely moving on 3 out of 3 of them. As I ranted in my early comparison video, a nearly stuck suspension will feel much more familiar to riders who haven’t tried a suspension wheel before, making most individual S18 reviews questionable in value.

I truly hope at least some of the S18 issues have been fixed by now, as I’d hate @Paulo Mesquita to be disappointed after his V11 experience. He has fast become a good rider and a great member of the community.

[VikB]

Adam bought his own S18 after testing one of the earlier batch models. His review is mixed, but he seems to like the positives enough to overlook the negatives while waiting for a KS S18 XL. 

[Paulo Mesquita]

5 hours ago, RetroThruster said:

.... if you don't jive with the wheel, you may as well walk away and try something else. 

@RetroThruster that's exactly what happened to me with the V11. I just didn't feel "one with the wheel" like I do with the KS 16X. Actually it's something that a long time ago, in my early days in the EUC life (about 70 days ago ) @ShanesPlanet talked to me about. He mentioned that we had to feel the wheel. So now, with all the problems that seem to have been solved with these later batches of the S18...I'm gonna give it a try. I have a feeling that it's going to act a bit like a 16X on steroids...and with suspension. 

We'll see....

[Paulo Mesquita]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

I’m more than aware that opinions can differ widely, but to read exactly opposite, precise descriptions is what I don’t fully understand.

For me (193cm tall, 105kg) the width of the S18 at the top prevented me from tilting the wheel enough for any tight turns, making it even less nimble than the 18XL despite the difference in tire width supposedly being in S18’s favor. And the slipperiest of tires ever factory installed on an EUC prevents the S18 from even entering the woods under anything else but perfectly dry conditions. And even then some taller roots would easily be the end of it.

 Comfort is of course very personal thing, but the strong contours of the S18 side pads doesn’t seem to fit a lot of riders very well.

 Like @ShanesPlanet’s, my experience on the S18 is from early batches. The suspension was barely moving on 3 out of 3 of them. As I ranted in my early comparison video, a nearly stuck suspension will feel much more familiar to riders who haven’t tried a suspension wheel before, making most individual S18 reviews questionable in value.

I truly hope at least some of the S18 issues have been fixed by now, as I’d hate @Paulo Mesquita to be disappointed after his V11 experience. He has fast become a good rider and a great member of the community.

@mrelwood, have no doubt that I also fear my decision. It was a shaky move on my part but a needed one due to my nature and personality. I'm a hedonist, and if I don't take an enough pleasure out of something...then that is not for me. That was what happened with me and the V11. It just felt like a war riding a well behaved nun (no sexual pun intended here, please). It felt damn boring. Of course the suspension was great but those pedals at 22cm height... there are definitely not for me. I is a total pain with my age, weight and height... just to mount it. It always felt like a skyscraper!

This is entirely my fault. I need to take max pleasure out of something and due to that I have lost quite a bit amount of money. Just for you to get the picture, I just sold the V11 with pads, protections and all...for 1000€. it's 7 months old and has 419kms on it...

I did the same with my telescopes and astronomy gear. Over 200 telescopes cruised my house in about 6 years...and you have no idea about eyepieces, filter, mounts, etc....

I have to fall in love with or it has to go. Why do you think I got married 4 times?...

[mrelwood]

@Paulo Mesquita, I hear you loud and clear! I’m the same in many aspects, so I can understand your move. But I sure wish you had had the chance to try the S18 before pulling the trigger.

 We talked about shoes and insoles in another thread. I don’t even dare to count how many pairs of shoes (and how many hundreds/thousands of €s) I’ve bought for riding... And I might even not know enough numbers to count the darn insoles! A few too many previous MacBooks lying around... Then there are my now down to few dozen e-guitars, which have all followed me moving houses a few times over the last few years... We all have our weaknesses!

One would think that I’d have a plethora of EUCs as well. I’m selling my MSX next week, which leaves me with just the V11 (and a 16S for the trunk / as a spare). And excluding just the Monster and the GT16 I’ve tried them all. That’s how perfect the V11 is for me.

I definitely hope you will also find your level of perfection on an EUC, no matter which model you end up with!

[Scottie]

 

8 hours ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

I'm a hedonist, and if I don't take an enough pleasure out of something...then that is not for me. That was what happened with me and the V11. It just felt like a war riding a well behaved nun (no sexual pun intended here, please). It felt damn boring. Of course the suspension was great but those pedals at 22cm height... there are definitely not for me. I is a total pain with my age, weight and height... just to mount it. It always felt like a skyscraper!

On one level, I get this. You have to do what you have to do, especially if you are a hedonist!   But yeah, if the pedals are too high ... they are too high. If they were lower, at a more normal height, would you still be riding it?

8 hours ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

@RetroThruster that's exactly what happened to me with the V11. I just didn't feel "one with the wheel" like I do with the KS 16X. Actually it's something that a long time ago, in my early days in the EUC life (about 70 days ago ) @ShanesPlanet talked to me about. He mentioned that we had to feel the wheel. So now, with all the problems that seem to have been solved with these later batches of the S18...I'm gonna give it a try. I have a feeling that it's going to act a bit like a 16X on steroids...and with suspension. 

As others have said, once you tame the 16X, it is your friend for life! Or many similar things.

I only get to ride the V11 when I feel like I deserve it, earned it, or on special occasions. Since I don't deserve it often, I don't get to ride it much. When I 1st get up there and going, I am a little wobbly compared to normal height wheels. But after a couple miles the muscle memory and V11 reflexes return and it is steady riding. So, feeling "one with the wheel" can be delayed, but it always happens.

Anyway, here's to hoping that the S18 turns out to be your wheel!   

[mrelwood]

BTW, I’ve had several situations during the winter where I specifically realized that I wouldn’t have been able to ride through with any other wheel than the V11 exactly because of the pedal height. So people who switch between V11 and other wheels, beware! The ground bites you that much easier on the lower pedals!

[VikB]

Could be a hoax, but only time will tell if this is the new KS suspension wheel. 

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, VikB said:

Could be a hoax, but only time will tell if this is the new KS suspension wheel. 

It won’t be. It’s a computer render ofa dream wheel made by some enthusiast.

The two photos circling around are from different designs, the shell wouldn’t fit the advertised battery capacity, the pedals are too low to allow any suspension travel, KS wouldn’t type an independent distributor’s name in the images, and a distributor wouldn’t put their name on a leaked KS image, etc...

 George was just a bit too fast to get excited about it I’m afraid.

[Finn Bjerke]

s20 is a hoax. Def. 

[RetroThruster]

23 hours ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

@RetroThruster that's exactly what happened to me with the V11. I just didn't feel "one with the wheel" like I do with the KS 16X. Actually it's something that a long time ago, in my early days in the EUC life (about 70 days ago ) @ShanesPlanet talked to me about. He mentioned that we had to feel the wheel. So now, with all the problems that seem to have been solved with these later batches of the S18...I'm gonna give it a try. I have a feeling that it's going to act a bit like a 16X on steroids...and with suspension. 

We'll see....

You know, my first wheel was the 16x and I've been bouncing around ever since, I swear I could do more things much more easily on it than I could anything else, not sure if my muscles or nervous system wrapped themselves around the 16x and refuse to accept anything else but I swear that I could ride it better then than I can ride any of my other wheels now, maybe I'm overthinking things but that's where I'm at at the moment.  I now have the Nikola+ and it's a super wheel and fast for sure but the shape of it doesn't lend itself to my body type to be able to manipulate it around like the 16x, that being said, a good rider can pretty much make any wheel do whatever they want, I ain't there yet so I need all the help I can get:)  I'm hoping you're right about the s18 and am anxious to hear your thoughts of it.

[VikB]

3 hours ago, Finn Bjerke said:

s20 is a hoax. Def. 

I'll have to cancel my pre-order then! 

[Paulo Mesquita]

On 4/4/2021 at 11:02 PM, mrelwood said:

I’m more than aware that opinions can differ widely, but to read exactly opposite, precise descriptions is what I don’t fully understand.

For me (193cm tall, 105kg) the width of the S18 at the top prevented me from tilting the wheel enough for any tight turns, making it even less nimble than the 18XL despite the difference in tire width supposedly being in S18’s favor. And the slipperiest of tires ever factory installed on an EUC prevents the S18 from even entering the woods under anything else but perfectly dry conditions. And even then some taller roots would easily be the end of it.

 Comfort is of course very personal thing, but the strong contours of the S18 side pads doesn’t seem to fit a lot of riders very well.

 Like @ShanesPlanet’s, my experience on the S18 is from early batches. The suspension was barely moving on 3 out of 3 of them. As I ranted in my early comparison video, a nearly stuck suspension will feel much more familiar to riders who haven’t tried a suspension wheel before, making most individual S18 reviews questionable in value.

I truly hope at least some of the S18 issues have been fixed by now, as I’d hate @Paulo Mesquita to be disappointed after his V11 experience. He has fast become a good rider and a great member of the community.

@mrelwood I don't plan to go off trail with it so the pedal height (something very important to me and to my self confidence...I've never been a sportsman) is very important to me. 

As for the s18 side pads, that is something that I'm quite aware of and as you very well put it, it might be a problem. But I'm willing to risk it 

 

2 hours ago, VikB said:

I'll have to cancel my pre-order then! 

yep!!!!

[Paulo Mesquita]

2 hours ago, RetroThruster said:

You know, my first wheel was the 16x and I've been bouncing around ever since, I swear I could do more things much more easily on it than I could anything else, not sure if my muscles or nervous system wrapped themselves around the 16x and refuse to accept anything else but I swear that I could ride it better then than I can ride any of my other wheels now, maybe I'm overthinking things but that's where I'm at at the moment.  I now have the Nikola+ and it's a super wheel and fast for sure but the shape of it doesn't lend itself to my body type to be able to manipulate it around like the 16x, that being said, a good rider can pretty much make any wheel do whatever they want, I ain't there yet so I need all the help I can get:)  I'm hoping you're right about the s18 and am anxious to hear your thoughts of it.

@RetroThruster i'm "one with the wheel" with my beloved 16x. Today I did 31kms and the las 10 were in total pain all over. I was so carried away exploring new alleys and dead ends that I literally didn't car about the pain. I got home and did 20 minutes of stretching, then a hot shower and I was fine again. My 61 year old bones got into place. But the 16x drives me crazy...it's just so much fun!!!! It's what you said...the 16x is magical when it comes to combining maneuvering and torque. I carved the entire 31kms today!!! my hips, knees and waist were put to the limit. There was a point where I wasn't carving...I was almost dancing the Twist on ii! Crazy!!!

[.....]

12 minutes ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

@RetroThruster i'm "one with the wheel" with my beloved 16x. Today I did 31kms and the las 10 were in total pain all over. I was so carried away exploring new alleys and dead ends that I literally didn't car about the pain. I got home and did 20 minutes of stretching, then a hot shower and I was fine again. My 61 year old bones got into place. But the 16x drives me crazy...it's just so much fun!!!! It's what you said...the 16x is magical when it comes to combining maneuvering and torque. I carved the entire 31kms today!!! my hips, knees and waist were put to the limit. There was a point where I wasn't carving...I was almost dancing the Twist on ii! Crazy!!!

It's crap like this that makes me start wondering if I should have a 16X in my stable. Luckily, I am aware that I have a fetish for buying new shit I dont need. Hopefully I can stave off spending more on another wheel for a while. I'm finding my new shoes make the arch of my foot cramp horribly after about 30 minutes. I guess I need to toughen up and ride more, as I'm definitley NOT up to par like I was at the conclusion of last season. Amazing how we just keep going and going when its too damn fun tho.

Edited April 6, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Paulo Mesquita]

1 minute ago, ShanesPlanet said:

It's crap like this that makes me start wondering if I should have a 16X in my stable. Luckily, I am aware that I have a fetish for buying new shit I dont need. Hopefully I can stave off spending more on another wheel for a while.

The Oracle told me the other day:" Shane will one day buy an 16x"....