Converting a Mten3 to tubeless operation.

[Gasmantle]

Many thanks for all the help guys 

I know that in reality there is nothing wrong with the wheel and I've just been unlucky with the tyre but I guess you can appreciate that when you've just paid £800 for a shiny new wheel and have had 2 punctures in less than 40 miles it is easy to become despondent. I'm sure that once I can get the problem sorted and clock up a few hundred miles trouble free then I'll feel happier.

Having inspected the tyre I'm happy that the problem isn't a puncture through the running surface. When I inflate it (in situ on the wheel) I can control the extent of the leak by manipulating the valve stem - it seems to me that the leak is coming from near where the valve stem joins the rubber tube.

At least that rules out it being the same problem as last time (last time was a distinct hole on the running area of the tube). I've taken the usual precautions of cleaning and inspecting the tyre and wheel rim before installing the new tube.

My guess is that I've possibly scraped / slightly damaged the valve join area when installing the tube and after a few miles the weakness has developed.

When I remove the tube in a few days I'll have a better look at the cause, but it could well be part error on my part 

[Tawpie]

It sounds like rotten luck, hopefully that's what's behind this and it's not @ShanesPlanet sending you mojo that'll make you sell him your wheel—you gotta watch out for that one.  

There's a video of somebody using handcuff sized zip ties to cinch up the tire prior to removal and installation that looks to make the off/on process nearly manageable, or at least not as horrible as it actually is. Might give that a viewing—then open a shop for changing mTen tires.

[pkinpdx]

I use the zip tie method for MTen tire / tube swaps and i can confirm it makes a giant difference.  I was able to get the tire on and off without irons.  I think i used 5 or 6 zip ties.

[Gasmantle]

Thanks guys.

To be honest the tyre removal and refit wasn't anything like as bad as I expected, I bought a set of these tyre levers at @ShanesPlanetsuggestion and they are worth every penny.

5pcs Heavy Duty Car Tyre Levers Spoon Set Motorcycle Bike Tire Changing Tool Kit | eBay

With the right tools I could remove the tyre on my own in minutes and I just needed 10 minutes of help from my neighbour to refit it.

[Gasmantle]

I've now replaced the tube and thankfully all seems ok 

The tube I bought after the initial puncture seemed to be of poor quality (I bought on ebay), once removed it had a lot of rubbing marks along the side walls over the full circumference - it looks as though the tyre had been moving relative to the tube but I can't really see how that was possible until after the puncture ?

I'll buy a spare tube but use a different supplier next time.

In the mean time I bought a puncture repair outfit as an emergency remedy if I'm ever unable to buy a tube. I can't repair the existing puncture yet as the repair kit says 'SAFETY GLASSES WITH SIDE SHIELDS MUST BE WORN'    I wonder if I should get a hard hat and safety boots as well !

 

[Unipilot69]

Don't forget to do the safety dance.

[The Fat Unicyclist]

One of our New Zealand riders has just gone "Mten3 Tubeless".

In this case though, he did it without removing the motor! Here is his video for those that are interested...

 

[.....]

1 hour ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

One of our New Zealand riders has just gone "Mten3 Tubeless".

In this case though, he did it without removing the motor! Here is his video for those that are interested...

 

oh goodness.... Makes my head hurt to watch this, in many different ways.... WTF was gotway thinking? Do any of the new mtens come tubeless now? Seems to me that the 10" tubes just simply cant handle the weight of a rider.

[stephen]

I'm sure my mten3 came tubeless  for sure they do now

[Michael Tucker]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

I'm sure my mten3 came tubeless  for sure they do now

Initially, the Mten3 came with a tube, then about a year into production they switched to tubeless. Then in mid 2020 it was discovered that the sealant used to mount and maintain pressure in the tubeless tire caused "premature erosion" of the rim, hall sensor and windings, so they switch back to tube type tires now.

[aviateNZ]

14 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

One of our New Zealand riders has just gone "Mten3 Tubeless".

In this case though, he did it without removing the motor! Here is his video for those that are interested...

 

Hey man - thanks for posting that (that's my video posted with my consent).  I hope it's useful to somebody.  I suppose I should join the forum!  :)

I know I'm going to have to bite the bullet and do the tire removal at some point, but the longer I can but that off the better!  I've done 8" tires before (which are even tighter) and I think I basically cried.  That said, I didn't have the cable tie method in the arsenal, so it might be a lot easier when I actually have to do it.  The other thing that put me off was needing to remove and re-stick the pads to get a screws.  I hate it when they do that.

 

13 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

oh goodness.... Makes my head hurt to watch this, in many different ways.... WTF was gotway thinking? Do any of the new mtens come tubeless now? Seems to me that the 10" tubes just simply cant handle the weight of a rider.

It's an interesting one.  I'm 80 KG (176 lbs), so I'm not super light, but nor am I especially heavy.  It's the same pattern I saw on my M365 though: balls of rubber debris in the tire, and a tube that looks like it's 100 years old but doesn't have any obvious leak.  I think the smaller tube/tire combos allow the tube to rotate much more than the larger wheels and they just wear things down.

Xiaomi actually released a thicker tube for the M365 in the end but I'd already had three flats (two with slime) and done the tubeless conversion.  The tube that came out of my Mten3 was definitely on the thinner side of things.

 

7 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

Initially, the Mten3 came with a tube, then about a year into production they switched to tubeless. Then in mid 2020 it was discovered that the sealant used to mount and maintain pressure in the tubeless tire caused "premature erosion" of the rim, hall sensor and windings, so they switch back to tube type tires now.

This is an interesting one.  I wonder if they had a really aggressive sealant so that it would last longer?  In the mountain biking world, you're toping that stuff up every month or two (depending on your riding, the temperature, and the sealant you use). 

Also, that's a hell of a lot of aluminium to erode through to get to the motor components.  The sealant I've used is ammonia free which should help.  Also, when I compare my video to Marty's, he had raw aluminium casting exposed whereas the inside of my wheel is powder-coated black (like the outside).  I have of course drilled through some of that, and there was already some marring (I guess from the manufacturing process).

[aviateNZ]

Also, as a side note, to the earlier comment that someone made (and deleted) around my smoke detector.  Yes, I hear it.  Yes it's annoying.  But what's more annoying is that it isn't the one on the ceiling.  It's one buried in a box somewhere in the garage.  So if anyone can tell me which box it's in...   

[z3n]

20 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

Initially, the Mten3 came with a tube, then about a year into production they switched to tubeless. Then in mid 2020 it was discovered that the sealant used to mount and maintain pressure in the tubeless tire caused "premature erosion" of the rim, hall sensor and windings, so they switch back to tube type tires now.

And now they do switch back to tubeless again after encountering many upset customers! 

[Satoki Nagata]

I got a Mten3 about a week ago from eWheels and it comes with tubeless.

[Unipilot69]

My oldest son popped the mten3 tire this afternoon. He was able to ride it out. It made quite a loud sound when it blew up. It only had 180 miles on it. Cheap ass tires. It blew out almost the middle of the tread. It still had most of the thickness left. I'll do a postmortem on it when a new tire arrives. Amazon had one that looks exactly like the one that came stock. I also ordered one with a different tread pattern. Amazon says it fits a Xiaomi scooter. Both will arrive next week. The size that was on my original tire is 70/65-16. That's what I searched for on Amazon. eBay and AliExpress would have taken about a month to a month and a half for delivery.

[.....]

On 4/5/2021 at 4:23 AM, aviateNZ said:

Also, as a side note, to the earlier comment that someone made (and deleted) around my smoke detector.  Yes, I hear it.  Yes it's annoying.  But what's more annoying is that it isn't the one on the ceiling.  It's one buried in a box somewhere in the garage.  So if anyone can tell me which box it's in...   

Probably me. I tend to come off WAY more a d**k than I intend to. Sometimes upon reread it becomes painfully obvious. Open mouth.... insert foot.I can tell you which box... Its the one under all the heavy stuff and its gna be the last one you look thru.

 

@Gasmantle So, any verdict? DId yuo get a tube in it that can hold air, or have you tried to convert it? Perhaps you've ben using it for a rifle target in the yard instead?

 

 

[Gasmantle]

10 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

@Gasmantle So, any verdict? DId yuo get a tube in it that can hold air, or have you tried to convert it? Perhaps you've ben using it for a rifle target in the yard instead?

Hi @ShanesPlanetFunnily enough I'm going to repair the wheel this afternoon with help from a friend.

I've bought a new tube from a proper dealer (the previous ones were ebay), it's difficult to tell whether the new one is better quality but I'll try it.

I think the punctures are occurring internally and not by sharp objects penetrating the tyre, I've had 3 punctures and they all happen after about 12 - 15 miles of use, in each case the punctures are on the sides of the tube and the tubes appear to have abrasion marks all around the sides. It's too much of a coincidence that all the punctures happen at the same amount of use and there is no tyre damage.

I've tried all the obvious things like checking for sharp protrusions on the wheel rim and inside the tyre etc but I can see no apparent cause 

[.....]

It really just sounds like maybe the mten tire is just taking too much deflection from supporting the weight. IN the end its eating the tube just as a matter of course. THicker tube may help and I hope it does. I do worry a bit that if the problem is the tire is unable to handle the pressure/weight, ANY tube will get rubbed to oblivion in short order. Are you a heavy person? I hope you get it worked out, its got to be aggravating on so many levels. Perhaps trying to go tubeless if the only solution. Sounds like this isnt uncommon, hence the reason gotway went back to tubeless.

Edited April 18, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Gasmantle]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

It really just sounds like maybe the mten tire is just taking too much deflection from supporting the weight. IN the end its eating the tube just as a matter of course. THicker tube may help and I hope it does. I do worry a bit that if the problem is the tire is unable to handle the pressure/weight, ANY tube will get rubbed to oblivion in short order. Are you a heavy person? I hope you get it worked out, its got to be aggravating on so many levels. Perhaps trying to go tubeless if the only solution. Sounds like this isnt uncommon, hence the reason gotway went back to tubeless.

Thanks @ShanesPlanetI'm about 75kg so I'm no heavier than a lot of riders.

Internally the tyre is very flaky and part of the cord webbing is starting to appear so that would possibly explain the abrasion marks on the tubes and subsequent punctures.

I'm disappointed in the quality of the tyre ( I have only done 48 miles on it)so I'm going to order a new one. Now that I've compared inner tubes the new one seems better quality so hopefully it will be ok especially with a better tyre.

[Gasmantle]

Having repaired the wheel yesterday I now have my 4th puncture.

I'm really fed up with this wheel 

Having spoken to the UK seller he's agreed to send me a tubeless tyre and valve, I'll give it a try and see if that resolves the situation.

[Kurtosis]

My goodness, I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. Definitely sounds like something is up with the tire itself.

[stephen]

6 hours ago, Gasmantle said:

Having repaired the wheel yesterday I now have my 4th puncture.

I'm really fed up with this wheel 

Having spoken to the UK seller he's agreed to send me a tubeless tyre and valve, I'll give it a try and see if that resolves the situation.

That's weird I've never had a problem  maybe your got something stuck in your tyre

[Gasmantle]

59 minutes ago, stephen said:

That's weird I've never had a problem  maybe your got something stuck in your tyre

@stephenThe tyre is crumbling away inside to the point where the cord webbing is now exposed. It's a brand new tyre with only 50 miles of use and shouldn't be falling apart like it is.

I'm convinced the tyre is the cause of the problem as every puncture happens after about 12 - 15 miles of use and the inner tube shows lots of abrasions round the entire circumference but there is no evidence of any sharp object penetrating the tyre. It's too much of a coincidence to think the tyre is being punctured from the outside at the same mileage every time, somehow the problem is happening within the tyre.

At 75kg I'm not a heavy rider and the tyre is inflated to about 35PSI so it's well within normal usage.

I've agreed with the dealer that I'll try converting it to tubeless and he will supply the new tyre and valve.

[.....]

Sound to me like the problem is easily recognized. Poor tire casing quality combined with a lot of weight for such a small wheel. In the end, the poor old tube is just getting rubbed and ground down to porous in hardly no time. I would suspect that this is somewhat a common issue, as why would gotway go with  tubes and then back again? Im sorry to hear you are having such trouble. I bet you are a freakign whizz at opening an mten now! I have a different type fo tire otw along with another tubeless mten. Somehow it seems I just managed to dodge the bad luck of getting a tubed variety.

Keep me posted how it goes. I reallly hope this bullshit is soon behind you and youll be smiling in no time. At least we know youll be able to change a tire when you run it down to the nub!

Edited April 20, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Unipilot69]

These tires are shit quality. This one blew out with my son riding it. Only 177 miles on the tire. He is about 5 foot 8 and about 120 pounds. My replacement came this afternoon from Amazon. Looks like the same tire with a different name on the casing. Only took about twenty minutes to change it out. The replacement tire came with a tube but I didn't bother installing it. I'll see if this tire holds air without sealant. The blowout made a mess. I only used one of my bicycle tire levers to remove the old tire. I did the install with just my hands. This one also seated with just using my bicycle floor pump.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Unipilot69