eWheels contracts outside company for custom battery packs

[EUC Addict]

Electric unicycle online communities have been vigorously discussing best practices for EUC storage in light of recent reports of wheels bursting into flames. Fire blankets being the most widely discussed method of protection. Begode even issued a letter to help alleviate public fear. YouTubers sponsored by eWheels began making calls to temporarily boycott Begode until the company addressed its quality control issues.

However, Begode’s efforts weren’t satisfactory to eWheels owner Jason McNeil. According to Marty Backe, who runs the fourth most viewed YouTube channel about EUC’s in the U.S., eWheels has contracted with an outside facility to make its own battery packs for the Monster Pro and EX. (Read more)

On 3/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, EUC Addict said:

Some of the upgrades will include circuit protection, temperature probes, and data interface. Backe announced the news to his 260 member Telegram group Sunday morning.

“Obviously only the wheels bought from eWheels will have these improvements.” Backe said.

eWheels was contacted for comment, but declined to give an official announcement concerning their plans.

McNeil said, “We’ll be providing details to our customers once the details have been thrashed out.”

As of the publication of this article, eWheels has not posted the Monster Pro or EX for pre-orders even though they have been taking orders by word of mouth since at least fall of 2020.

“They have a couple hundred on order.” Backe said regarding the pre-orders of the Monster Pro and EX.

An order of this size is significant, likely representing around $400,000 in sales for Begode. Along with its size comes influence and eWheels is taking advantage. eWheels’ move to produce custom battery packs is probably the biggest impact an EUC dealer has ever had on the industry outside of eWheels’ rumored investment in Veteran.

The impact this move will have on other dealers remains unclear, but from a business point of view it is a shrewd move for eWheels.

“If they want to pay for the development and are doing so then fair play to them!” Speedy Feet’s Ian Sampson said.

Co-founder of e-Rides.com Afeez Alade thinks this is a great development for the customers. Though he admittedly finds himself thinking about this from two different perspectives. As a business man he understands what eWheels is doing, but as someone looking at the big picture of personal electric vehicles, he sees a conflicting view point.

“If I was in their position, I’d share with the community.” Alade said.

Alade admits that from a business perspective this is not so simple.

eWheels has got to make a profit too, said Alade.

At the moment, the only dealers impacted are U.S. dealers, since eWheels does not ship internationally. However, this level of involvement in research and development doesn’t come without risk.

“Yes [dealers] will be disadvantaged by it, but then if that bothers them, they could also risk hard earned cash to pay to have this level of development done and suffer the trials and tribulations with comes from such an endeavor.” Said Sampson.

Three U.S. dealers were contacted for comment, but have not responded as of the publication of this article. eWheels is still in the testing phase of its custom battery packs, but according to Backe, customers can expect to see their Monster Pro and EX orders May 2021.

Safety improvements are a good thing, and hopefully the aphorism "a rising tide lifts all boats” will apply to this situation too.

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by RagingGrandpa
(quoted article now that website expired)

[Arbolest]

[meepmeepmayer]

Wow, what happened to the Gotway battery packs? Gotway's 18650 packs were the best of all!

How can they even f**k this up by only using different cells when nothing else changed? Or is it the cells themselves?

What changed?

Edited March 9, 2021 by meepmeepmayer
spelling

[EUC Addict]

1 minute ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wow, what happened to the Gotway battery packs?

This is eWheels' response to the Monster Pro that burst into flames in the back of someone's Subaru and eWheels' cargo container fire. These custom batteries appear to be only for the Monster Pro and EX and they don't use 18650 packs as you probably already know.

[Rich Sam]

I think its pretty darn cool a distributor cares enough about their customers enough to add safegaurds the manufacturer is not willing to do themselves.  If I was in the market for a Begode wheel I would be VERY interested.

[meepmeepmayer]

25 minutes ago, EUC Addict said:

These custom batteries appear to be only for the Monster Pro and EX and they don't use 18650 packs as you probably already know.

Monster Pro and EX have the same bog-standard 900Wh packs as every other wheel Nikola-sized or bigger, do they not? Is there something different about the packs in the Monster Pro/EX?

And I meant that Gotway's 18650 packs were basically flawless, so I'm surprised the change to 21700s (while everything else presumably stayed the same) produced the current mess.

[Rich Sam]

Just now, meepmeepmayer said:

Monster Pro and EX have the same bog-standard 900Wh packs as every other wheel Nikola-sized or bigger, do they not? Is there something different about the packs in the Monster Pro/EX?

And I meant that Gotway's 18650 packs were basically flawless, so I'm surprised the change to 21700s (while everything else presumably stayed the same) produced the current mess.

I believe its not the quality of the individual cells that are in question, but the safeguards installed when hooking up the banks.  I.E. no over current fuse.  Nothing to stop fire if short condition occurs.

[meepmeepmayer]

3 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

I believe its not the quality of the individual cells that are in question, but the safeguards installed when hooking up the banks.  I.E. no over current fuse.  Nothing to stop fire if short condition occurs.

Did the Nikola and MSP/RS have any extra protection the Pro/EX do not have?

There must be something different. Gotway has been making 900Wh 21700 packs for a while now, but only with the newest wheels the fires started.

Edited March 9, 2021 by meepmeepmayer

[EUC Addict]

1 minute ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Is there something different about the packs in the Monster Pro/EX?

Not that I'm aware of at the moment. My opinion is that there really isn't a battery issue at all. There are reasonable explanations for how those wheels caught fire that have nothing to do with the batteries and more to due with water ingress issues and poor packing/wheel transport.

Fear is real though and it affects sales and when you're sitting on a $400,000 order you have the weight to throw around to do something to alleviate your customers' fears.

[Rich Sam]

From the perspective of preventing battery fires and the news provided,  I would like to hear all they are changing myself to see.  I heard from a few Begode open wheel reviews on youtube that sometimes the battery packs are not sufficiently isolated by compartments and\or circuitry i.e. fuses.  It could also be the wires at which they use may not have the sufficient gauge for the amperage pull causing excessive heat on a hard push.  Just guessing without knowing what eWheels is doing.

[EUC Addict]

2 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

I would like to hear all they are changing myself to see.

eWheels is being mum on the nitty gritties right now, but I did hear they are currently testing the batteries and plan to test the rest of this month, which is why EX and Monster Pro shipments are being pushed till May.

For Begode's part they did add a 150A fuse between the battery packs and control board on the Monster Pro. They also added a fuse to the control board and cover to help protect from dust etc. These updates are on the 3rd gen of the control board. This 3rd gen also releases more power in the Monster Pro.

[xiiijojjo]

The only component of Gotway wheels i truly find to be superior are their motors/firmware. 

If i could pay a 3rd party company to manufacture my battery packs preferably with better cells and construction, another to manufacture a more beefy control board (somehow containing Gotway firmware), another to 3d print a superior shell out of more durable material fitted with a veteran type roll cage, and yet another to create a piezo that is very audible at 50+ km/h i'd die happy.

That does seem more like a dream than something that might happen so i'd settle for a hollow bore veteran wheel for now... Preferably with a good piezo.

But i am happy to see ewheels do this - the less Gotway has to do with the production of their wheels the better lol.
If somehow they could just supply motors/firmware to the other companies and forgo making actual eucs we'd be close to living in a perfect (euc) world.

[WI_Hedgehog]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Is there something different about the packs in the Monster Pro/EX?

It might have something to do with Gotway being suspected of using recycled (used) cells in their wheels. If I remember, their initial response was something like "We never claimed we use new cells."

Without additional safety circuitry (like monitoring temperature), using used (and therefore non-matching) cells would be a recipe for disaster due to some cells having a far lower charge than others and internally heating to the point of catastrophic failure.

EUCs are inherently dangerous, 1 out of 10,000 starting on fire could very well be judged an acceptable risk compared to all the other risks accompanying owning an EUC given the large return on investment of using "recycled" cells.

Even without Gotway actually using "recycled" cells, the suspicion, recent incidents, and corporate response might be enough for reputable dealers to distance themselves from Gotway. In 2015 hoverboard fires caused some countries governments to ban imports and millions of dollars worth of paid-for-in-advance product was now sitting on container ships waiting to be disposed of (thrown overboard). That's a huge risk for EUC importers if more wheels start on fire.

[shellac]

Interesting news. Another side effect of this is maybe we could get wheels delivered faster. Without the batteries they could be shipped from China by air and then ewheels installs the batteries in the US and sends them on their way. 

[AtlasP]

Truly fascinating.

A world where eWheels orders the EUCs in bulk without batteries and contracts a separate manufacturer for the battery packs has numerous advantages for ewheels--liability & related legal concerns, reducing the shipping time & cost of shipping for the bulk of the wheels by volume without batteries in them (as pointed out by shellac), reduced warranty claims, increased sales as buyers have more confidence in buying Begode wheels and eWheels becomes *the* place to buy a Begode wheel--as well as the obvious benefits to consumers.

I wonder if there's any chance/what the chances are of eWheels eventually shifting to doing this for other brands (or at least all models over a certain battery size)? Or what if (completely wild-speculation) ewheels became a middle-man re-distributer of their 'upgraded' wheels to other third-parties for example in Canada or even physical retailers or boutiques in the US?

Edited April 6, 2021 by AtlasP

[Flying W]

This is pretty amazing news! What a way to step up on eWheels part. This risk could really pay off for everyone. 

I'm still surprised eWheels would do this, but I think it's really cool!

[xorbe]

Can someone paste the rest of the article, I can't seem to click through.

Edited March 10, 2021 by xorbe

[RagingGrandpa]

On 3/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, EUC Addict said:

(Read more)

Electric unicycle online communities have been vigorously discussing best practices for EUC storage in light of recent reports of wheels bursting into flames. Fire blankets being the most widely discussed method of protection. Begode even issued a letter to help alleviate public fear. YouTubers sponsored by eWheels began making calls to temporarily boycott Begode until the company addressed its quality control issues.

However, Begode’s efforts weren’t satisfactory to eWheels owner Jason McNeil. According to Marty Backe, who runs the fourth most viewed YouTube channel about EUC’s in the U.S., eWheels has contracted with an outside facility to make its own battery packs for the Monster Pro and EX. Some of the upgrades will include circuit protection, temperature probes, and data interface. Backe announced the news to his 260 member Telegram group Sunday morning.

“Obviously only the wheels bought from eWheels will have these improvements.” Backe said.

eWheels was contacted for comment, but declined to give an official announcement concerning their plans.

McNeil said, “We’ll be providing details to our customers once the details have been thrashed out.”

As of the publication of this article, eWheels has not posted the Monster Pro or EX for pre-orders even though they have been taking orders by word of mouth since at least fall of 2020.

“They have a couple hundred on order.” Backe said regarding the pre-orders of the Monster Pro and EX.

An order of this size is significant, likely representing around $400,000 in sales for Begode. Along with its size comes influence and eWheels is taking advantage. eWheels’ move to produce custom battery packs is probably the biggest impact an EUC dealer has ever had on the industry outside of eWheels’ rumored investment in Veteran.

The impact this move will have on other dealers remains unclear, but from a business point of view it is a shrewd move for eWheels.

“If they want to pay for the development and are doing so then fair play to them!” Speedy Feet’s Ian Sampson said.

Co-founder of e-Rides.com Afeez Alade thinks this is a great development for the customers. Though he admittedly finds himself thinking about this from two different perspectives. As a business man he understands what eWheels is doing, but as someone looking at the big picture of personal electric vehicles, he sees a conflicting view point.

“If I was in their position, I’d share with the community.” Alade said.

Alade admits that from a business perspective this is not so simple.

eWheels has got to make a profit too, said Alade.

At the moment, the only dealers impacted are U.S. dealers, since eWheels does not ship internationally. However, this level of involvement in research and development doesn’t come without risk.

“Yes [dealers] will be disadvantaged by it, but then if that bothers them, they could also risk hard earned cash to pay to have this level of development done and suffer the trials and tribulations with comes from such an endeavor.” Said Sampson.

Three U.S. dealers were contacted for comment, but have not responded as of the publication of this article. eWheels is still in the testing phase of its custom battery packs, but according to Backe, customers can expect to see their Monster Pro and EX orders May 2021.

Safety improvements are a good thing, and hopefully the aphorism "a rising tide lifts all boats” will apply to this situation too.

By the way @Jason McNeil...

Howbout: BMS with a beeper.

If any cell gets 200mV different than pack-average, or above 100°C, or today's OV/UV conditions are met, it disables the charging input and starts screaming.

(I realize BMS can't do anything to *fix* a truly bad cell, but it could alert us...)
 

If the beeper is contained inside the pack and inaccessible to customers, they'll be annoyed enough to act- take the wheel outside, etc. It only needs to be loud enough to be annoying indoors.

[RagingGrandpa]

Progress!

2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

This is an initiative that we've been working on for over 9 months now, since the [in]famous incident of the BG container that had arrived in smolder heap of ash.

These packs will have:
- Imported Korean 50E cells (Molicel P42a will be offered as an option later)
- BMS with short protection 
- Depending on the application, 30-40A physical fuses designed to work, not this 120A nonsense... 
- 5x temperature probes with buzzers to alert at a 65°C level & shut-off when the temps exceed 75°C
- Voltage differential management for packs of unequel voltage, no balance lead required! 
- Improved cell holds & upgraded (thicker) nickel strips 
- Automated weld production methods for consistent quality 
- Capacity & stress-testing processes  
- Certification program planned in the next 3-6 months  

Edited September 13, 2021 by RagingGrandpa

[RagingGrandpa]

Also deployed to Sherman Max now:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/509001630141079/posts/652895425751698/

(eWheels' site says the cells are 21700 50E)

With so little room left inside the Sherm shell, looks like they had to use a daughterboard to package the 'tall' components (shutoff FETs). It'll keep them from being crushed and damaged from impact to the side of the EUC, ok. Hope all the leads are logic signals and not direct to cells...

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by RagingGrandpa

[Lefteris]

On 3/9/2021 at 5:54 PM, EUC Addict said:

Electric unicycle online communities have been vigorously discussing best practices for EUC storage in light of recent reports of wheels bursting into flames. Fire blankets being the most widely discussed method of protection. Begode even issued a letter to help alleviate public fear. YouTubers sponsored by eWheels began making calls to temporarily boycott Begode until the company addressed its quality control issues.

However, Begode’s efforts weren’t satisfactory to eWheels owner Jason McNeil. According to Marty Backe, who runs the fourth most viewed YouTube channel about EUC’s in the U.S., eWheels has contracted with an outside facility to make its own battery packs for the Monster Pro and EX. Some of the upgrades will include... (Read more)

site is down @EUC Addict

[RagingGrandpa]

Looks like AlienRides' shop is also developing a connection with LiTech and their custom packs for GW/BG EUC's:

  

3 hours ago, Paradox said:

AlienRides is showing two different battery configurations available.

[MattDeamon]

Any new information since the last post ? 

[Paradox]

39 minutes ago, MattDeamon said:

Any new information since the last post ?

AlienRides is now offering 3 choices for batteries in the Master.

https://alienrides.com/collections/electric-unicycles/products/begode-master-electric-unicycle?variant=42485917516030

[Planemo]

Erides in the UK is also going to offer those 3 solutions. I imagine that 99.9% of buyers go for the Litech 50E (I would!)