New Firmware 1.3.5 listed

[glorat]

I've been holding off updating since the whistle in @master255's video is audible and more than annoying to me. But finally gave it a go on my Ninebot C (2016 model), mainly in the hope it would rebalance back the forward lean you have to do on tight turns.

I've done about 5km on roads and bumps on it and it feels very normal and responsive but I'm not experienced enough to tell the difference on the finer details. As for the tight turns, there is noticable improvement on what I was looking for on turns. It still requires a forward lean to perform a tight turn but the scrape on the ground is further back than where it was.

As for the infamous whistle... it's fairly quiet for me and only noticeable if I'm in very quiet surroundings. It certainly doesn't bother me like the aforementioned youtube video. Reading all the mailthreads here, it seems @master255 has been more unlucky than most in the impact. The firmware is clearly a contributing factor but it doesn't seem to bother most people here and it didn't bother me. YMMV

[Achim]

Updated without any problems. The whistle sound is really not bearable for me and therefore not an issue. Bot drives smooth and after running around 10 km I had no malfunction recorded. 

[cbgti]

I'm not sure because my motherboard (v1.3.1) was changed (for a 1.3) between the Fw 1.2.7 and the new 1.3.5, but I lost 3km/h of Maximum Speed (25km/h before, and only 22 now)...

I'm not really happy about this, but I don't know if the cause is the new Firmware or new motherboard.  :-/

[Vanopolis]

11 hours ago, cbgti said:

I'm not sure because my motherboard (v1.3.1) was changed (for a 1.3) between the Fw 1.2.7 and the new 1.3.5, but I lost 3km/h of Maximum Speed (25km/h before, and only 22 now)...

I'm not really happy about this, but I don't know if the cause is the new Firmware or new motherboard.  :-/

I learned the hard way working on motorcycles, replace or fix one thing at a time and test the vehicle between fixes. Otherwise you will never know what change had what effect. 

Has anyone done the upgrade to 1.3.5 on a P? Seems like the only guy who has done it was the nut with the "unbearable" whistle. 

[master255]

@Vanopolis It seems I'm alone in the world

 

[Chriull]

On 29. Dezember 2015 at 8:52 PM, master255 said:

Just Listen! 
https://youtu.be/BSFei5QHdt0

I just upgrade to 1.3.5 and there is not the slightest whistle to be heard. In your video there is unfortionately too much background noise - on my desktop computer i did not hear any whistle, just on my ipad. So its not only a high pitch deafness of 'elderly' people, but also a matter of the speakers of the replay device.

but anyhow - if your 9bot has a loud high pitched noise since your update, it could be just some loose components on the mainboard which get into resonance by a changed pwm frequency by the new firmware. So get in contact with your reseller/ninebot and get it exchanged!

[Vanopolis]

7 hours ago, master255 said:

@Vanopolis It seems I'm alone in the world

 

Not so alone, I finally updated to 1.3.5 and I also have the whistle. Mine is very subtle but it's there. 

[Paulandjacquelyn]

Soooo glad did not update....sticking with 1.30 for now on my p.

[master255]

@Paulandjacquelyn glad for you

Apparently not all good hearing. But it is not important. What is important is that such high frequency noises adversely affect health. It does not matter you hear them or not.

According to the survey all have a whistle. Not everyone hears it. And I'm surprised that the company Ninebot does nothing for so long !!

[Paulandjacquelyn]

Agree master255.  One thing that is driving people crazy is lack of transparency of update reasons.     Maybe 1.35 fixes a serious unknown issue of 1.30 but we have no idea.   Maybe the whistle is burning something out but and nb is feverishly working on 1.36! NB has a US team in place....maybe time for talk of class action.......any lawyers here?  

 

[Flavour]

The whistle sound is normal, I've seen the video of the P and every Ninebot E+ I've seen before works the same way.

When you put it still, it's not staying "in place", the sound comes from micro-movements. I guess it can be louder in the new software, because they've updated the motor alghorithm. Anyway it's normal, because turned on Ninebot it's always moving. I don't think it can be fixed by software.

If you haven't heard it before the upgrade it's maybe because you're old or impaired your hearing a bit. Do you hear mosquitos?

[Vanquiz]

Actually, it's not quite a whistle for me, it's some kind of really high pitch noise, very subtle though, I can hear it in a very silent room, which I didnt hear it at all before the update, so it is a 1.3.5 problem, which should/can be fixed with a firmware update.

But if there's some noise in the room, someone talks, or music, I barely can hear anything, let alone when riding outside.

For @master255, it's either he has a bit different motherboard ( He has a P, so not sure if it's a P related or not) reacts stronger than the others, or he has a very sensitive hearing towards high pitch compared to others, but I still cannot hear it from his video, but I know what he's talking about after I updated to 1.3.5.

[musk]

I think it's safe to say that nobody else is experiencing the kind of sound that master255 is.  He was one of the earliest updaters and, as such, the noise became one of the bullet-point "features" of 1.3.5.  Because there's only been once occurrence of this noise being a real problem, I'd say it's overblown.  It doesn't seem like the other people in the poll who selected the "fine but with whistle sound" think that it's significant, just that it's present.

[chriscalandro]

On 1/17/2016 at 1:20 PM, master255 said:

@Paulandjacquelyn glad for you

Apparently not all good hearing. But it
is not important. What is important is that such high frequency noises adversely affect health. It does not matter you hear them or not.According to the survey all have a whistle. Not everyone hears it. And I'm surprised that the company Ninebot does nothing for so long !!

1 - High frequency sounds do NOT adversly affect health as long as they are not above a SPL that can be damaging.  This is not the case with the ninebot and this fact is true for ALL frequencies.  I'm not sure where you got this, maybe you made it up to make a point?  For the record, I have a degree in acoustics.

 

2- Why would they have to do something when there is no issue?  I updated to 1.3.5 immediately.  I only hear the high frequency sound in very quiet surroundings, otherwise it is unnoticeable.

 

The noise must be a result of a change in PWM frequency.  If the engineers at ninebot have determined  this new PWM frequency is beneficial to the motor and to me, than that is what I want.

[Guest]

On 20/12/2015 at 4:54 PM, Patrick Carroll said:

So... has anyone taken the plunge and installed 1.3 5 yet?

1.3.5 killed one of my wheels already 

EDIT: my 1.2.9 wheel is still kicking I thought this had already been determined 

 

EDIT#2 I would like anyone with 1.3.5  to go out to an open road and accellerate to near top speed for about 15 mins straight then come to a stop and see what happens 

On 18/01/2016 at 6:43 PM, Vanquiz said:

Actually, it's not quite a whistle for me, it's some kind of really high pitch noise, very subtle though, I can hear it in a very silent room, which I didnt hear it at all before the update, so it is a 1.3.5 problem, which should/can be fixed with a firmware update.

But if there's some noise in the room, someone talks, or music, I barely can hear anything, let alone when riding outside.

For @master255, it's either he has a bit different motherboard ( He has a P, so not sure if it's a P related or not) reacts stronger than the others, or he has a very sensitive hearing towards high pitch compared to others, but I still cannot hear it from his video, but I know what he's talking about after I updated to 1.3.5.

I also have over sensitive hearing and also heard the 1.3.5 whine before it died.. but also might have something to do with age  youve heard about the sound adults cant hear as a ringtone  right  

 

[Vanquiz]

@eurider Thank you for the test video, that makes me sure I'm not hearing impaired from not being able to hear the whistle on master's video. 

From the video you posted, also from the related test video, I can hear them just fine till 19K Hz, even though I'm 39 years old. 

[SuperSport]

@Vanquiz I was able to hear the sound just fine also. 

@eurider I regularly ride at top speed for over 15 mins. That's how I normally ride when alone. My trails are many miles long with no obstructions.  So far, still riding smooth and quiet on 1.3.5 on E+.

I will admit though, the warmest weather  I've ridden in so far is probably about 60 degrees Fahrenheit.  Maybe that plays a roll.  My summers will rise over 100 degrees, so that might be when I experience problems.

If I ride against a wall, I can sometimes hear the whistle, but fortunately, it's SOO quiet I really have to pay attention to hear it. 

You can listen to my videos of riding, I doubt you'll be able to hear it either, or maybe just barely. 

[Cranium]

I hooked up my Oscilloscope to my E+ to get some facts about this noise.  

The reason you can hear the high pitch is that the frequency of the MOSFETs firing while at a rest is 8KHz...well within human hearing range.  This is not an issue with the EU.  It is a design parameter that Ninebot chose to use.  As to why they chose to use a frequency that is lower than 20K, I could only guess.

Here is a video of the tone...sound about right?

 

 

[Paulandjacquelyn]

Welcome back cranium.....good stuff as usual.

[chriscalandro]

I was close to doing this but then I didn't care enough.  Thanks!

[Chriull]

I do not really want to revive the pitch discussion again - but just to state that my 9bot E+ with 1.3.5 produces while at rest and with slight movements (like shown in master255's youtube video) almost no high frequency pitch.

By real live ear test its not hearable, by recording the sound via iphone and putting the waveform through a spectrum analyser a small spike can be seen at 8 kHz . I will report again after i took my ninebot out again and get some recordings whilst driving.

Just for comparison - the on/off beep has two spikes (2,6 & 5,2kHz) at about -37db, the white noise averages at about -107 db and the 8kHz spike comes (seldomly) to a maximum of -80db. So the difference of 43 db should make up for a factor of 8 32 in loudness (40 db means 4 16 times as loud and 8kHz are heard about half as loud as 2,6kHz or 5,2kHz)

Other way round - master255's youtube video shows in the spectrum analyser a significant peak at 8kHz, exactly as cranium measured the PWM frequency...

In master255's video the difference is about 24 db, so his pitch sound is about factor 4 8 lower than the on off beep (... but with horrible sound quality - so no idea how this influences the outcome...)

Edit: Ups messed up with the db to factor conversion - 40 db should be a factor of 16 and 20 db should be a factor of 4.

[chriscalandro]

It just occurred to me that lower frequency PWM will make a motor controller run cooler. 

 

So the fact that we can now hear the pwm driver probably means they lowered the PWM frequency, which means less heat generation and a more reliable wheel. 

 

When you consider these facts it proves thamaster255 has just been spouting off nonsense and that despite a VERY LOW level high pitched sound (8k as measured above) in terms of overheating and reliability, 1.3.5 IS the most reliable firmware available.