Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I'm terrified at 20mph! Well, maybe not exactly terrified… electrified perhaps. But I fear the pavement, even in all the gear. At my weight, a gust of wind is an adrenaline shot max strength.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 221
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

INMOTION V12 is coming soon? Rumor? No, it's not a rumor. Our engineers are still working hard on the development. We can definitely expect it before June.  Comment below to share with us  w

The mental gymnastics/shifting goalposts here are so blatant and regularly occurring they have become cliche. For years all everyone talked about here was "yay 100v MSX/MSP/100v Nikola+ speeds &a

Hello, I am sharing the new features for theInmotion V12. Disclaimer: This content may be changed by the manufacturer at any time. The Inmotion V12 EUC is basically 18x3.0 inches and is a non-s

Posted Images

Theres over 820,000 motorcycle riders in California alone. You need to have a screw loose to go 150mph+ on a bike but people do it. In fact i believe half of the appeal of a unicycle is how crazy it is to even ride one regardless of speed. Decent bikes cost 5k$+, and to grow the category aggresively, we need more dare devils to enter the sport. Just because a vehicle CAN hit 100 mph does not mean you have to push it to 100 mph. But having 100 mph in the tank is nice

Edited by GoGeorgeGo
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

What DID happen to that 10K$ inmo wheel they announced? Was this just more bullshit that we are becoming accustomed to?

I think they found it would be a big loss to make and much recourses has been pulled to the V11. 

I am not sure if they meant an high priced EUC or escooter either. 

In the end I think this was a thought that the public reaction to it kinda buried it. Inmotion have not really talked much about for some time. 

Another thing is it was hinted before the hole Covid-19 thing happened or at least before people realised the impact of Covid-19. 

Edited by Unventor
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Tasku said:

If that $4k wheel has 10 year warranty, 100mile range and it charges in 10 minutes to full.. We be talking solidstate batteries now maybe with ultra capacitors regen braking. Tech making these things possible is here already, just not mass produced. Too expensive for small industy like EUC manufactors to give it a shot yet? Then again there are some lobbying to make these things banned in some areas where conditions for use would otherwise be ideal (Holland and Germany).

lol now we cooking with fantasy, none of this is true today and it wont be true tomorrow, if we're lucky maybe in 5-10 years, so definitely not something we can hope for on the V12.

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

lol now we cooking with fantasy

Are we? I never said this was a V12, that is something you pulled out of this conversation that is derailing. The question raised was theoretical that would anyone pay 4k for a wheel. I was refering that if wheel is of good value the price would make more sense. If you wanna peak to future you can read or watch vids. The car manufactors have changed the use case needs for batteries and when production becomes abundant enough it will be revolutionary for us unicyclers too.

54 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

none of this is true today and it wont be true tomorrow

:roflmao: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_battery

Major developments continued to unfold into 2018, when Solid Power, spun off from the University of Colorado Boulder research team,[23] received $20 million in funding from Samsung and Hyundai to establish a small manufacturing line that could produce copies of its all-solid-state, rechargeable lithium-metal battery prototype,[24] with a predicted 10 megawatt hours of capacity per year.[25] QuantumScape, another solid-state battery startup that spun out of a collegiate research group (in this case, Stanford University) drew attention that same year, when Volkswagen announced a $100 million investment into the team's research, becoming the largest stakeholder, joined by investor Bill Gates.[26] With the goal to establish a joint production project for mass production of solid-state batteries, Volkswagen endowed QuantumScape with an additional $200 million in June 2020, and QuantumScape IPO'd on the NYSE on November 29th, 2020, as part of a merger with Kensington Capital Acquisition, to raise additional equity capital for the project.[27][28]

In 2021, Toyota will unveil a prototype electric vehicle powered by solid-state batteries, with further plans to be the first automaker to sell an electric vehicle with solid state batteries.[30] Solid Power anticipates "entering the formal automotive qualification process" in early 2022,[31] and QuantumScape has "scheduled mass production to begin in the second half of 2024".[28] Similarly, Fisker has claimed that its solid-state battery technology should be ready for "automotive-grade production" in 2023.[32]

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Most-read-in-2020/Toyota-s-game-changing-solid-state-battery-en-route-for-2021-debut

 

Ultra Capacitors or Super Capacitors have use cases for cars already for regen breaking and big time energy storage solutions.

There are plenty of manufactorers and the resources to make em are getting cheaper as we speak.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Tasku, I'm not all that old yet even I saw dozens of different "magical breakthrough" batteries promising enormous capacity and speed of charging, etc... But at the end, the only thing that really changes year to year is a slow evolution of cell chemistry and construction. All this super tech is usually just a marketing mumble to attract investors or to get a free PR from media. :-) And then it can't be mass produced, or it is too costly, or it is not even all that great once the data are not cherry picked. Assuming that there are some working cells with final parameters, not just some remote prototype or theoretical model whose parameters are then "scaled" with magic numbers...

I would love to see a big change in batteries, and it will probably happen eventually, but I'm not aware of anything that I would bet on today.

Edited by Zopper
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

You need to have a screw loose to go 150mph+ on a bike but people do it.

Because its relatively effortless. I had a Busa up to 185mph and it was rock solid. A far, far cry from an EUC at say 60mph...

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Zopper said:

@Tasku, I'm not all that old yet even I saw dozens of different "magical breakthrough" batteries promising enormous capacity and speed of charging, etc... But at the end, the only thing that really changes year to year is a slow evolution of cell chemistry and construction. All this super tech is usually just a marketing mumble to attract investors or to get a free PR from media. :-) And then it can't be mass produced, or it is too costly, or it is not even all that great once the data are not cherry picked. Assuming that there are some working cells with final parameters, not just some remote prototype or theoretical model whose parameters are then "scaled" with magic numbers...

I would love to see a big change in batteries, and it will probably happen eventually, but I'm not aware of anything that I would bet on today.

I agree with most of this. But it seems Toyota has found a way round the biggest problem with solid state batteries. They tend to expand when being charged. And this has been in development for quite some time ago. (I read this on Toyota Europe news flash a few months ago while researching for my Yaris and the upcoming Yaris cross). If I recall right its 15 years+ ago now when Toyota started to investigate solid-state battery options. 

Personally I think from what I read, we will see first mass spread use in 3-5 years. So yes not there yet but much closer than a few years back. And ot should be possible at a fairly affordable price vs our current battery options due to materials are not as dependent on high cost metails. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Im out of touch with reality. What is considered 'fast' on an euc? 50kmh is only around 30mph right? Im curious if what people consider 'fast', is relative to geographic location? Seriously, 35mph aint shit in america. Maybe it's my background that has my perception askew? I only wonder what the general consensus is, as maybe in China, 50kmh IS fast? I worry more about being run over or run into, that the conesequences of sliding down the apshalt at a mere 30-50mph. Anything over running speed is a tumble anyhow, I dont see much difference in tumbling at 20mph than 40mph. Our biggest worry should be the car drivers on cell phones tailgating as a daily ritual. Even if you do run out an overlean, you aint running out the 2,000lb steel box that isnt watching the road, but watching their gps, texts and in car televisions.  With 2 seconds following distance, a downed euc rider shouldnt get run over. the friction of skin on pavement doesnt 

I agree with 30mph not being fast.. but not sure I can say a fall at those speeds are just a tumble. Even a 20mph tumble can be dangerous.. and there is a decently big difference between falling at 20 and at 40.

Living in NYC and riding on the streets 30 mph top speed is a bit low. You kind of need more headroom. I barely hit those speeds with foot and bike traffic how it is here.. but I've needed bursts of speed and torque to get out of close calls pretty often. 

Either way.. I don't want to tumble at any of those speeds

Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I agree with 30mph not being fast.. but not sure I can say a fall at those speeds are just a tumble. Even a 20mph tumble can be dangerous.. and there is a decently big difference between falling at 20 and at 40.

Living in NYC and riding on the streets 30 mph top speed is a bit low. You kind of need more headroom. I barely hit those speeds with foot and bike traffic how it is here.. but I've needed bursts of speed and torque to get out of close calls pretty often. 

Either way.. I don't want to tumble at any of those speeds

Well, it's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end, they say. :D And this is where I see the difference in race track vs street. If you have a good gear (like an MC suit) and you get a tumble and slide at 40mph on a race track, you will just gradually slow down and it's a pretty good chance you will go away with nothing but bruises. But you can end up with broken bones easily if you hit something on the street at 20mph, no matter the gear. Worse, you can hit and hurt someone else too. There are cars, there are people, there are street signs, potholes, etc, etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mike_bike_kite said:

yet you haven't bought one so why would you buy one at $4k???

People do buy bicycles worth 10k. Crazy right cause you could get one for 200? I made my case saying if there be value for money, there be buyers. You are right that I just feel uncertain the market have what I want right now.

I have a wheel so, I do not have to buy new one. Yet here we all follow to see what comes next for good reason. 

Here be something that I find of value. 

 

- Easy tire change. 

- Water/dust proofing! (The circuitboards  should be coated for one)

- Durable build materials and light weight. Example NyloNove pedals

- Smart BMS. Yes that few extra wires would be value for me. 

- Battery casing and better heat management. This would make it easier to use devices in wider temperature range.

- Longer warranty. Most wheels I look at I estimate they gonna last for 2 years, maybe more if they are well maintained. Seems user is the biggest variable here.

- Next gen battery, solid-state. That 10 minute charge time would mean lighter wheel cause the solid-state should pack more in less weight. Cycle time better than the current li-on batteries. Less heat produced during charging. Gotta wait and see how it goes. 

- Ultra capacitors that can capture strong current and re-use it. This could make it also possible to make emergency stops if there are failure of sorts.

- Software solutions. I quite like the V11 with its options.

- Easy software/firmware updating.

- Bearing problems solved in hollow motors. Only that kick ass warranty would make me believe this is a thing of past.

- Antitheft and GPS tracking.

-Fire proof case (like box shaped glassfiber fireblanket) for storage and recharging.

 

Any money anyone would put to these devices is a investment. If the product is good and I estimate it lasts long, then I am interested.

IMHO: The current devices that I seen of are a joyrides for good weather conditions, but they could be much more with little effort. Mentality of accepting high price with low life cycle seems absurd to me. Paying 2k for something that obviously breaks down makes no sense. I would pay 4k if it lasts 10 years of use. Realistic expectations of warranty in mind.

I challenge other forum users to tell me what you find of value other than the number you buy something with.

 

Love and peace, enjoy the rides.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tasku said:

Are we? I never said this was a V12, that is something you pulled out of this conversation that is derailing. The question raised was theoretical that would anyone pay 4k for a wheel. I was refering that if wheel is of good value the price would make more sense. If you wanna peak to future you can read or watch vids. The car manufactors have changed the use case needs for batteries and when production becomes abundant enough it will be revolutionary for us unicyclers too.

:roflmao:

It take years to get new technology to market and while there are advances in battery technology it's not something we will see this year in EUC or even next I highly doubt it, so not something we will see tomorrow as I said even if there are many exciting things in progress.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, Zopper said:

Well, it's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end, they say. :D And this is where I see the difference in race track vs street. If you have a good gear (like an MC suit) and you get a tumble and slide at 40mph on a race track, you will just gradually slow down and it's a pretty good chance you will go away with nothing but bruises. 

I've crashed an awful lot of motorbikes, in fact I'd say I'm a bit of an expert at it :), and I'd say the nature of motorbike crashes are completely different to EUC crashes. Even on the road, in most motorcycle crashes you'll just slide down the concrete and as you say, unless you do something silly, you tend to walk away with just bruises. The big difference is you tend to have a little control before the crash that allows you to slow down or avoid oncoming trucks or just stand out the saddle to avoid getting tangled in the handle bars etc. With EUC crashes there's no preparation, one moment you're enjoying the ride, the next your head and arms are slamming into the concrete. You do see videos of of EUC crashes where people slide along on knee sliders or do some martial art role but I suspect that's just luck. A 50mph crash on a motorbike is normally just unpleasant but a 50mph EUC crash is going to be life changing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

 

I've crashed an awful lot of motorbikes, in fact I'd say I'm a bit of an expert at it :), and I'd say the nature of motorbike crashes are completely different to EUC crashes. Even on the road, in most motorcycle crashes you'll just slide down the concrete and as you say, unless you do something silly, you tend to walk away with just bruises. The big difference is you tend to have a little control before the crash that allows you to slow down or avoid oncoming trucks or just stand out the saddle to avoid getting tangled in the handle bars etc. With EUC crashes there's no preparation, one moment you're enjoying the ride, the next your head and arms are slamming into the concrete. You do see videos of of EUC crashes where people slide along on knee sliders or do some martial art role but I suspect that's just luck. A 50mph crash on a motorbike is normally just unpleasant but a 50mph EUC crash is going to be life changing.

I wish i had video of me falling at 32 mph - it happened so fast. I remember being on my back and sliding 20 ft before parking me staring at the sky. Everything hurt. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jon Stern said:

You're not in technology or product development, are you?

I feel you being just hostile. Sir, surely there will be information of the product soon. I have education for build production lines. What about you?

2 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

I love your optimism, but I don't love your laughing at someone who is completely right.

Well maybe you could go and read what I wrote then. The information I provided (link and such) provided base value for conversation to stir. There is a country called JAPAN that put alot of money into making certain technology production to ramp up and car manufactorer that announces car to use the technology. I have talked of production value or reasoning behind a value of product. I have not made any promises and unclear to me why you are so upset? I am a follower just as you.

I just replied that these tech exist and are not fantasy.

Sorry if my chatting about what could be of future has upset you. The information I have given did not controverse the other chatter, nor have I made any promises of such being available, at this time. English that is not native to me, what you pick up from this topic is not something I control. Nor try to do so.

Since there was no new information at hand.. I have simply made attempt to bring the conversation back to something more related to this topic.

5 hours ago, Tasku said:

I challenge other forum users to tell me what you find of value other than the number you buy something with.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Tasku said:

I feel you being just hostile. Sir, surely there will be information of the product soon. I have education for build production lines. What about you?

Well maybe you could go and read what I wrote then. The information I provided (link and such) provided base value for conversation to stir. There is a country called JAPAN that put alot of money into making certain technology production to ramp up and car manufactorer that announces car to use the technology. I have talked of production value or reasoning behind a value of product. I have not made any promises and unclear to me why you are so upset? I am a follower just as you.

I just replied that these tech exist and are not fantasy.

Sorry if my chatting about what could be of future has upset you. The information I have given did not controverse the other chatter, nor have I made any promises of such being available, at this time. English that is not native to me, what you pick up from this topic is not something I control. Nor try to do so.

Since there was no new information at hand.. I have simply made attempt to bring the conversation back to something more related to this topic.

 

I would like to see more redundancy built into the designs (or any for that matter) safety features are priceless.

Similar to an airplane, a mechanical malfunction results in a catastrophic crash. Planes are built with backup systems for the backup systems. The safety systems on EUC are extremely limited.

Going along with more redundancy i want to see wheels capable of reaching 75-80 mph. No i dont expect anyone to travel at those speeds consistently, what i want is a machine that is not stressed by constantly being pushed to its limits. 

I can feel on my v11 how much more stress the machine is under above 25 mph , while it is absolutely capable of 35, thats really pushing the components to their limits, which for a device that causes catastrophic failures is not how i wish to operate a vehicle. I want a machine able to push 45+ mph without even blinking. 

And of course lighter cheaper better higher energy density batteries will always have imense value 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to have redundancy then you have to have double the components. Actually, you'll probably need to triple the components so if 2 gyros give different numbers then the 3rd can outvote the bad gyro. Obviously all this increases the cost of the wheel. I'm also not sure I'd trust the Chinese to produce a system that's more reliable by going this route. If you want a wheel capable of 75mph then you'd need much more powerful motors, batteries etc. As well as hugely increasing the cost of the wheel this will also make the wheel ridiculously heavy. That in turn would make the wheel useless for riding in town etc (imagine a monster but perhaps 3 x the weight). So you'd end up with a wheel that costs a fortune and is pretty much useless.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

And of course lighter cheaper better higher energy density batteries will always have imense value

First one to make a shipstone and commercialize it gets to be the richest person in the galaxy.

(quoting from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8516481, "Shipstone" from Friday - an energy storage device that packs "more kilowatt-hours into a smaller space and a smaller mass than any other engineer had ever dreamed of. To call it an "improved storage battery" (as some early accounts did) is like calling an H-bomb an "improved firecracker."

In the novel, the Shipstone's eponymous inventor realised "that the problem was not a shortage of energy but lay in the transporting of energy. Energy is everywhere—in sunlight, in wind, in mountain streams, in temperature gradients of all sorts wherever found, in coal, in fossil oil, in radioactive ores, in green growing things. Especially in ocean depths and in outer space energy is free for the taking in amounts lavish beyond all human comprehension.

"Those who spoke of "energy scarcity" and of "conserving energy" simply did not understand the situation. The sky was "raining soup"; what was needed was a bucket in which to carry it.")

In the book, the inventor didn't bother to patent it because it turns out there was 1 way and only 1 way to successfully assemble a shipstone, and if you messed up even a little, it went off like an atomic bomb. And at a very small scale, that sounds like our EUC battery packs so we're at least on the correct path! Lots of energy in a package = lots of potential for bad things to happen should that energy get out in an uncontrolled manner.

Edited by Tawpie
separate quote from my comments
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

If you want to have redundancy then you have to have double the components. Actually, you'll probably need to triple the components so if 2 gyros give different numbers then the 3rd can outvote the bad gyro. Obviously all this increases the cost of the wheel. I'm also not sure I'd trust the Chinese to produce a system that's more reliable by going this route. If you want a wheel capable of 75mph then you'd need much more powerful motors, batteries etc. As well as hugely increasing the cost of the wheel this will also make the wheel ridiculously heavy. That in turn would make the wheel useless for riding in town etc (imagine a monster but perhaps 3 x the weight). So you'd end up with a wheel that costs a fortune and is pretty much useless.

 

Im sure they can get the weight of components down over time like with all other technology. They are currently made of cheap components so im sure added cost could address some of those issues immediately. 

I dont see why a heavy wheel would be uselss though, the monster pro is 100 pounds (more probably with all the added accessories) and i actually enjoyed my short ride on it. Its certainly a beast but not unreasonably heavy, and with a wheel that large and heavy it cuts through wind and bumps amazingly. Especially for large riders, im not a small guy lol

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tasku said:

I feel you being just hostile. Sir, surely there will be information of the product soon. I have education for build production lines. What about you?

Well maybe you could go and read what I wrote then. The information I provided (link and such) provided base value for conversation to stir. There is a country called JAPAN that put alot of money into making certain technology production to ramp up and car manufactorer that announces car to use the technology. I have talked of production value or reasoning behind a value of product. I have not made any promises and unclear to me why you are so upset? I am a follower just as you.

I just replied that these tech exist and are not fantasy.

Sorry if my chatting about what could be of future has upset you. The information I have given did not controverse the other chatter, nor have I made any promises of such being available, at this time. English that is not native to me, what you pick up from this topic is not something I control. Nor try to do so.

Since there was no new information at hand.. I have simply made attempt to bring the conversation back to something more related to this topic.

 

I wasn't JUST being hostile! :efeebb3acc:

I have lots of experience in bringing up production lines, and in developing new technology. I am responsible for major components in consumer products that ship several million (battery powered) units per year.

Yes, these technologies exist. The challenges now are improving yield, scaling and reducing cost. This can take several years.

I've been tracking the advances in solid state batteries and super caps for several years now because they will be a game changer for the products I develop. I'm optimistic, but you were suggesting that we would have them for the V12 which is coming out this year. I was disagreeing with that. I was not upset. I was simply disagreeing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...