INMOTION V12 (pre-release)

[Scottie888]

Seems like a lot of us here are asking for what Iron Korea showed (in their vid) on the 16" suspension wheel they are working on. If its not vaporware, this Iron Korea looks like my next wheel. I don't need 200miles of range nor do I need to go 50mph. What I would like is a nimble, reasonably light suspension wheel that'll do 35mph til 30% & is well built with easy diy maintenance. 

Don't really care if its Inmotion or Iron Korea so lets hope they'll have a nice competition to get this to the market

[Rich Sam]

Harley headlamps can detect lean and angle light to the direction of the turn

 

[Rehab1]

@Espen R @mrelwood Awesome discourse on patterns of pronunciation, sentence structure and semantics.  Espen you should be flattered. Mrelwood has never once called me Mr. Rehab1. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Rehab1

[Steve O]

On 1/27/2021 at 6:39 PM, Tryptych said:

(I still have a fully function Z bearing despite all season/weather riding).

Same here, first batch V11 with the Z bearing and still running strong, although I will admit it doesn't really get ridden all that much since I got the Sherman lol 

[EUChristian]

9 hours ago, Steve O said:

Same here, first batch V11 with the Z bearing and still running strong, although I will admit it doesn't really get ridden all that much since I got the Sherman lol 

Wow a telling comment indeed. I've been debating both sides of the coin on this very issue...namely if I get a V12 will I sell the V11? Should I return to a non-suspension wheel and if not...why not go for the Sherman?  Seemingly the Sherman has a gait that allows it to...almost...act like suspension. And there in lies the problem.

See originally I thought that I would always simply replace the old EUC in my collection with a new one and sell the old one. Philosophy back then was - I just want the best wheel so I will save up and use the money to nice faster wheel and use the sale of the old one to knock the price down.  So I chose the S18 and then canceled and ordered the V11 when the problems came out. After receiving the V11 and bding blown away with the refinement I realized that my Kingsong 16s felt like a toy compared to this one wheeled motorcycle and rode the V11 straight for months tickled pink into December.  Wanted to sell the 16s but my daughter forbade me to do it because jts the one "daddy learned how to unicycle on".  Crying makes me concede the battle. 

Anyway - a week ago I went to get mail and hopped on the 16s (I have a long driveway) and in complete shock and awe I actualized a part of my being I had forgotten. Suddenly it was raw and visceral and carvy snappy and that "toy" made me more happy in those moments than sitting down cruising on the V11 ever did...

I now realize i must keep many wheels and not sell them for profit, and it is not like the "best one" can exist. I mean I've read it a hundred times here but until you've lived it you can't see the truth in it.

So essentially you could say my philosophy on electric unicycles is to threat one much less like a prostitute and much more like a long term girlfriend I meet for drinks once a month where sometimes we fight but it is so worth it to keep her around. 

V12 or Sherman was my question, but what if it's both?  Can a suspension wheel in someone's stable be sold off and returned to non suspension for all wheels?  Will a part then be lacking from your joy?  Pressing times folks pressing times. Should have bought GME at the beginning I'd buy you all a round of wheels and fly us all to California for an epic Marty Run to figure this out. 

[Kekafuch]

3 hours ago, EUChristian said:

Wow a telling comment indeed. I've been debating both sides of the coin on this very issue...namely if I get a V12 will I sell the V11? Should I return to a non-suspension wheel and if not...why not go for the Sherman?  Seemingly the Sherman has a gait that allows it to...almost...act like suspension. And there in lies the problem.

See originally I thought that I would always simply replace the old EUC in my collection with a new one and sell the old one. Philosophy back then was - I just want the best wheel so I will save up and use the money to nice faster wheel and use the sale of the old one to knock the price down.  So I chose the S18 and then canceled and ordered the V11 when the problems came out. After receiving the V11 and bding blown away with the refinement I realized that my Kingsong 16s felt like a toy compared to this one wheeled motorcycle and rode the V11 straight for months tickled pink into December.  Wanted to sell the 16s but my daughter forbade me to do it because jts the one "daddy learned how to unicycle on".  Crying makes me concede the battle. 

Anyway - a week ago I went to get mail and hopped on the 16s (I have a long driveway) and in complete shock and awe I actualized a part of my being I had forgotten. Suddenly it was raw and visceral and carvy snappy and that "toy" made me more happy in those moments than sitting down cruising on the V11 ever did...

I now realize i must keep many wheels and not sell them for profit, and it is not like the "best one" can exist. I mean I've read it a hundred times here but until you've lived it you can't see the truth in it.

So essentially you could say my philosophy on electric unicycles is to threat one much less like a prostitute and much more like a long term girlfriend I meet for drinks once a month where sometimes we fight but it is so worth it to keep her around. 

V12 or Sherman was my question, but what if it's both?  Can a suspension wheel in someone's stable be sold off and returned to non suspension for all wheels?  Will a part then be lacking from your joy?  Pressing times folks pressing times. Should have bought GME at the beginning I'd buy you all a round of wheels and fly us all to California for an epic Marty Run to figure this out. 

Its gotta be a personal decision. If you can swing it, is to have a few and just compare them. Then sell the ones you know you won’t want. The cost for being able to try back to back is a percentage of the price. Consider it like rent fee. Or if you have a posse is to maybe buy different wheels as a group and share them like an exclusive supercar club  

 

[Seba]

On 2/3/2021 at 5:01 PM, mhpr262 said:

1.500Wh would be enough for me. Even my V10F with a 960Wh battery can haul my 135kg in full gear across 40-45 kilometers in hilly terrain at reasonable speeds 20-25kmh that still allow you to wear bicycle saftey gear instead of full on motorcycle gear. That is two hours of riding and my knees give out long before that. I'd rather have them keep the weight reasonable.

Most probably V12 will be a 16" wheel equipped with 3" wide tire. This is my conclusion drawn after reading this Inmotion post:

Looks like a motorbike tires with 12" rim size are considered for V12 - this is an equivalent of 16" bike tire. So it seems that V12 may be successor of a V10/V10F. It seems consistent with information given during last year V11 presentation about the unsuspended wheel that will be equipped with some kind of intelligence. So it's possible that the V12 will be very close to your expectations

[DjPanJan]

Quote inmotion in official post: Yesterday, we were testing an off-road tire on V12. (The final tire model is not settled yet). The motherboard was burnt for two times when we powered up the wheel when it's on the kickstand.

Trnslate to normal world this mean something of this?:

1. Bad protection mainboard?

2. Weak mosfets AGAIN?

3. Underdimensioned control board?

4. recyclation weak V10F board with famous overload please get out and tilback to force stop or crash?

5. Again weak EUC not for people 100 Kg+?

Looks then like not Power EUC this is propably 16 inch for "casual riders" maybee competitor for KS16X i hope they keep power close to KS16X what is capable 40 degree incline with 80kg rider tested! 

I think inmotion is scary make "Casual EUC" over 25 Kg i not belive they make battery over 1500Wh like KS16X have.

I write all this because i am potencional V12 customer ,if they make all god i want more or same power like ks16x because my 16X is over 4000Km+ and is time to sell.( i belive in inmotion weatherproof where my ks16X failing hard (i own "old" batch 2).

My V10F is sold and i miss all weather "shoping EUC" now.

And not KS16X competitor on market now early 2021. (that is why i still keep my 16x)

 

 

[Necromancer]

I'd like to see a more modular wheel. 

A wheel that can be upgraded depending on your use case and wallet.

 

Want more battery? Buy an additioal pack and easily add it. 

Want a different tire? Easily swap out.

Instead of making different models for different needs, make one model that can be extended to different uses. The items themselves can be replaced over time. 

A bit Like a PC.

 

Would be much more popular and might give a lot longer life time. 

 

Seems like the hard set limit is the rim/tire size, everything else is built around It and can be upgraded over time and fit together if engineered thay way from the beginning. 

[mhpr262]

On 2/3/2021 at 10:47 PM, Scottie888 said:

Seems like a lot of us here are asking for what Iron Korea showed (in their vid) on the 16" suspension wheel they are working on.

That brand seems to be almost nonexistent both here on the forum or on youtube. I dont recall ever having seen a review of one of their wheels.

[Jonny727272]

5 minutes ago, mhpr262 said:

That brand seems to be almost nonexistent both here on the forum or on youtube. I dont recall ever having seen a review of one of their wheels.

I had heard the name in a Telegram chat before. Was able to find them on YouTube pretty easily, but it all seems like prototype test videos with no concrete release dates. 

[Gasmantle]

10 minutes ago, Necromancer said:

I'd like to see a more modular wheel. 

A wheel that can be upgraded depending on your use case and wallet.

 

Want more battery? Buy an additioal pack and easily add it. 

Want a different tire? Easily swap out.

Instead of making different models for different needs, make one model that can be extended to different uses. The items themselves can be replaced over time. 

A bit Like a PC.

 

Would be much more popular and might give a lot longer life time. 

 

Seems like the hard set limit is the rim/tire size, everything else is built around It and can be upgraded over time and fit together if engineered thay way from the beginning. 

Yea I agree. 

It would seem a fairly easy thing to do so I suspect the manufacturers are reluctant to do it as they want you to keep buying new wheels.

 

[mhpr262]

A real, external backup battery would be nice. A 20s2p pack, all ready wrapped in a protected, hard shell backpack wth extra storage, connected to the wheel with 5mm² copper leads and a heavy duty XT90 plug. 7

You'd have to have the internal EUC battery and the external battery at the same state of charge (i.e. topped up at 100%) and keep it plugged in right from the start for maximum effect (no ineffective charging of the empty internal battery by means of the backpack battery) but users would soon learn how it works. It could turn the Kingsong S18 pack from 3p to 5p for instance and increase the power and range of the wheel by at least two thirds.

[Necromancer]

57 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

Yea I agree. 

It would seem a fairly easy thing to do so I suspect the manufacturers are reluctant to do it as they want you to keep buying new wheels.

 

It's not so simple to implement. It has to come with roadmap strategy. 

The more popular the product, the more $ company makes. 

Sure there might be a cartel agreement to not go that route, but the first company to come with a product that outcompetes the rest will be the one to pocket the money. The others might disappear. 

[GoGeorgeGo]

2 hours ago, Necromancer said:

It's not so simple to implement. It has to come with roadmap strategy. 

The more popular the product, the more $ company makes. 

Sure there might be a cartel agreement to not go that route, but the first company to come with a product that outcompetes the rest will be the one to pocket the money. The others might disappear. 

Not so sure i see that happening anytine soon. The market is to fractured right now. Between last mile commuters, hobyists, street wheels, offroad wheels, wheels at different pricepoints. I can see manufacturers dominating individual niches, but im certain no one wheel will dominate the market. Maybe a company gets to the point that they dominate all the niches someday, but as far as im concerned that would take 5-8 different wheel models to accomplish. And only Gotway is putting out that many wheels lol. Inmotion is slowly adding wheels for each niche  kingsong has yet to enter the 40 mph discussion , veteran only has high end street wheels, and Gotway is the most diversified but they are also some of the lower quality builds. 

Id say inmotion has the best chance at market dominance if the v12 is a home run, but even if the v12 outsells the sherman, i still think there is enough market room for the other manufacturers to earn their cut 

[AtlasP]

12 hours ago, DjPanJan said:

Quote inmotion in official post: Yesterday, we were testing an off-road tire on V12. (The final tire model is not settled yet). The motherboard was burnt for two times when we powered up the wheel when it's on the kickstand.

Trnslate to normal world this mean something of this?:

1. Bad protection mainboard?

2. Weak mosfets AGAIN?

3. Underdimensioned control board?

4. recyclation weak V10F board with famous overload please get out and tilback to force stop or crash?

5. Again weak EUC not for people 100 Kg+?

Looks then like not Power EUC this is propably 16 inch for "casual riders" maybee competitor for KS16X i hope they keep power close to KS16X what is capable 40 degree incline with 80kg rider tested! 

I think inmotion is scary make "Casual EUC" over 25 Kg i not belive they make battery over 1500Wh like KS16X have.

I write all this because i am potencional V12 customer ,if they make all god i want more or same power like ks16x because my 16X is over 4000Km+ and is time to sell.( i belive in inmotion weatherproof where my ks16X failing hard (i own "old" batch 2).

My V10F is sold and i miss all weather "shoping EUC" now.

And not KS16X competitor on market now early 2021. (that is why i still keep my 16x)

 

 

I believe you misunderstood their post. A wheel spinning from high-speed to suddenly jammed with something like the kickstand getting caught in the tire tread would obliterate the electronics on *any* wheel today. This is not an electronic problem involving boards/mosfets/etc but rather a mechanical issue involving configuration of kick stand, tire tread for it to get caught in, etc.

Otherwise several of your claims directly contradict what we know directly from IM. It *will* have a battery bigger than 1500Wh, and it *will* be 100v and therefore *not* be a "casual" wheel. At 100v it will certainly exceed the power of the 16X which doesn't even hit its advertised 31 mph, and while I don't expect that it will be a 40+ mph wheel, I do expect 35 to maybe 40 mph.

Edited February 5, 2021 by AtlasP

[AtlasP]

17 hours ago, Seba said:

So it seems that V12 may be successor of a V10/V10F.

Perhaps just semantics or something lost in translation, but I don't agree with this categorization and the word "successor" here. The V10F has always been the IM equivalent of the Tesla (both in price category and ballpark specs/use case), whereas the new V12 sounds more like the IM equivalent of the 100v Nikola. And I don't think that anyone would say that the 100v Nikola is the "successor" to the Tesla, they're really completely separate/discrete categories--and so I would apply the same differentiation between the V10F & V12. (If you just meant tire size b/c both the V10F & V12 are 16", I'd argue that 16x3 in the V12 is closer to the 18x2.5 in the 18XL as well as obviously the 16x3 in the Nikola & 16X, whereas the 16x2.5 in the V10F is really closer to the 16x2.125 of the Tesla or KS-16S.)

(A lot of people historically have made the mistake of comparing the V10F to the 18XL or MSX [which were ~$500 more expensive] when that never made any sense. As stated above, the V10F was always the IM equivalent of the Tesla-category in both price and ballpark specs/use case. The V10F wasn't IM being incapable of competing in the 18XL/MSX category, rather it was IM saying the 18XL/MSX category was simply unimportant to them--at the time--compared to what they perceived as the larger/more lucrative category around the V10F & Tesla's price & specs. The V11 was really IM's first attempt at competing with the 18XL or 84v MSX, and at that/in that comparison they fare quite well. Similarly the V12 looks like it will be IM's first attempt at the 100v Nikola/non-existent-but-hypothetical 100v 16X category.)

Edited February 5, 2021 by AtlasP

[someguy152]

On 1/27/2021 at 6:06 PM, Asphalt said:

Smart BMS showing the state of every cell.

does this exist yet on any noncustom EUC?

[mrelwood]

7 hours ago, someguy152 said:

does this exist yet on any noncustom EUC?

The late Ninebot Z10 does show individual cell voltages.

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

The late Ninebot Z10 does show individual cell voltages.

Not being pedantic, but it doesn't. It only shows string voltages...

[mike_bike_kite]

17 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Not being pedantic, but it doesn't. It only shows string voltages...

I suspect you are being pedantic  

I'm guessing a string voltage is a bunch of batteries in series? So if your battery pack is 24s6p then it would show the 6 voltages for each of the sets of 24 batteries in series?

[null]

19 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

So if your battery pack is 24s6p then it would show the 6 voltages for each of the sets of 24 batteries in series?

For long I thought that was the organisation, but apparently it is parallel clusters (here 6p) who are then connected in series (24s)

[Planemo]

18 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I'm guessing a string voltage is a bunch of batteries in series?

No. It's a bunch of batteries in parallel.

So for the Z, you get 14 string voltages. But there are two 'separate' packs in the Z so you actually get the voltages from 28 strings. But still, each string has 3 cells hanging off it.

[mike_bike_kite]

Can I ask what the benefit of doing it that way is?

[Planemo]

More out of necessity than a benefit. Somewhere along the line you have to go parallel because of the current demands we need for an EUC. As soon as you go parallel you are going to have the cathodes and anodes of those cells joined together. So chucking a multimeter on them won't show the individual cell voltages, only the string voltage. Theres no real easy way around it, other than having numerous BMS', so each BMS has it's own cell to monitor. But it's juggling voltage vs current requirement. To get say 100v you need 24 cells. But each cell can only output say 10A max, so you have to parallel them somewhere. The other option is to not parallel anything and run say 4 packs in serial to make 400v (as the voltage goes up, current requirement comes down) but we don't really want 400v between our legs now do we...