INMOTION V12 (pre-release)

[RockyTop]

I have never had a wheel that could not go the advertised speed per the on board speedometer. So now we are not only lying about the actual speed by 3-5 MPH. We can't even get to the lie? 

Edited May 10, 2021 by RockyTop

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, Heyzeus said:

so I will wait and see what we've got coming out around December. V13 with similar specs to this wheel and a suspension system, mmmm

I’m quite sure that the V13 will take much longer than that. Mid 2022 if we’re very lucky. And I can’t even see how Inmotion could screw up the V13 in a way that I wouldn’t buy it... But I guess it’s still possible.

Edited May 10, 2021 by mrelwood

[Unventor]

Looking at how difficult wheel launches have been the past 1-1 1/2 year I doubt we see another wheel within first year after V12 first sale to customer and shipping them out. 

As for naming who knows what it will be called.

With the things going on inside Inmotion it is very hard to get any liable information about the future these days.

[onizukagto]

2 hours ago, RockyTop said:

EVX said that the Nikola and V12 are comparable. They both go 38 MPH as tested by EVX. The Nikola is a bit tougher and the V12 is more nimble with lots of extras. Not really a Nikola killer but in his opinion better than the Nikola. .............. Correct me if I am wrong the Nikola only claims 35 MPH and goes 38 MPH while the V12 claims 43.5 MPH and only goes 38 MPH. ...... I believe that is a quality issue. 

I agree. It is a quality issue. 

Begode doesn't care about quality, it puts everything into performance, even if it means a premature destruction. Notcsaying that it's a bad thing, begode is successful because of this. 

I think the negative criticism of the V12, is its inability to mimic those traits by those who love that. 

And as @Rawnei put it, it's not wrong to point out the things that "disappoint" some set of riders.

Just that sometimes it can be exhausting to see riders to expect Inmotion to abandon its company philosophy and its engineering focus approach. 

They will always try to put priorities on safety and quality. Performance will always be the last thing. 

So those people who crave that performance, aren't going to buy this wheel. Which I think, makes it harder to accept the constant negativity. So I guess it is a personal thing, just my take as an "Inmotion lover". 

 

[AtlasP]

On 5/10/2021 at 3:32 PM, RockyTop said:

EVX said that the Nikola and V12 are comparable. They both go 38 MPH as tested by EVX. The Nikola is a bit tougher and the V12 is more nimble with lots of extras. Not really a Nikola killer but in his opinion better than the Nikola. .............. Correct me if I am wrong the Nikola only claims 35 MPH and goes 38 MPH while the V12 claims 43.5 MPH and only goes 38 MPH. ...... I believe that is a quality issue. 

Why attempt to paraphrase (and misrepresent) what EVX said when he's already made his position clear in black & white text in this very thread:

On 5/5/2021 at 3:31 PM, evX_Mick said:

Take it from me, a guy that knows my Nikola and this v12 inside and out: you don’t want a 16” to go beyond 70kph. And the v12 feels awesome at 38-40mph. ... Personally I’ve already sold my Nikola ...

 

On 5/5/2021 at 3:42 PM, evX_Mick said:

If you still buy a nikola now that the v12 exists, you just love wasting money. Specs are so close, except you get safety, quality and insane features. Plus the fat toaster Nikola is awful design between the legs. V12 def kills the nikola overall. 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by AtlasP

[RockyTop]

I guess I see 38 -40 ish as 38 + BS. EVX did not mention killing the Nikola in anything that matters to me. They can keep all the fancy screens and such. 
40ish BS with someone as small as EVX is total BS as 43.5MPH 

How would you feel if you bought a car that said it could go 80MPH yet only goes 50MPH. ....... Gosh you should not go that fast anyways. It is safer that way. I would like to see the GPS on the V12. I bet it only goes 34MPH maybe? 

Edited May 11, 2021 by RockyTop

[GoGeorgeGo]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I’m quite sure that the V13 will take much longer than that. Mid 2022 if we’re very lucky. And I can’t even see how Inmotion could screw up the V13 in a way that I wouldn’t buy it... But I guess it’s still possible.

14 inch non suspension wheel with a 3200wh 100v battery but limited top speed of 25 mph!!! The v13 is perfect for anyone who demands trendy battery specs but plans to just roll on sidewalks and bike paths! Get yours today!!! 

[pkinpdx]

59 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

I guess I see 38 -40 ish as 38 + BS. EVX did not mention killing the Nikola in anything that matters to me. They can keep all the fancy screens and such. 
40ish BS with someone as small as EVX is total BS as 43.5MPH 

How would you feel if you bought a car that said it could go 80MPH yet only goes 50MPH. ....... Gosh you should not go that fast anyways. It is safer that way. I would like to see the GPS on the V12. I bet it only goes 34MPH maybe? 

So you don't own a Nikola (at least your flair says you don't).  This would indicate that a high speed 16 inch wheel is not a wheel that you are interested in.  Obviously a safer version of that same high speed wheel would not be interesting to you.  It seems silly that you are defending the not a Nikola killer position so adamantly when you aren't even an owner. I would think anyone would want their wheels to be more waterproof and less likely to cut out because you didn't hear beeps. So what that the theoretical speed of 43 is a myth.  Even if it ONLY goes as fast as the Nikola, the added safety is worth the extra cost.

[Scottie888]

49 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

14 inch non suspension wheel with a 3200wh 100v battery but limited top speed of 25 mph!!! The v13 is perfect for anyone who demands trendy battery specs but plans to just roll on sidewalks and bike paths! Get yours today!!! 

Yo bruh why you dissin my lil wheel mang! Wots it ever do to you!! & how'd ya know thats exactly what I want for Xmas!!! LOLz

All jokes aside, my MCM5v2 up'd to 100v 1500wh keeping the same form factor would be just about perfect. I'd be inline for it if IM (or whoever) makes one. It would be the perfect inner city urban wheel...for me anyways.

[RockyTop]

39 minutes ago, pkinpdx said:

So what that the theoretical speed of 43 is a myth.  Even if it ONLY goes as fast as the Nikola, the added safety is worth the extra cost.

  It is very simple. The box says that the Nikola can go 35MPH. It does that easy. The V12 says that it will go 43.5 MPH. Go 43.5 MPH and tell me how safe you are. Don't worry you can't even get close to that speed. We call that safety. We will pay more for a 100mph wheel that only goes 5mph. That way we can have a really fast, really safe wheel. It might be a great wheel. But it should say 35MPH with cool extras on the box. Then it would be great. If a company is going to lie more about everything, more than any other company I don't trust it. What else are they lying about? and that is called quality? Trust me you don't want to go that fast anyways this wheel is not stable at that speed. -great excuse.  Louder beeps are great. It takes about 15 minutes and $5 to make a GotWay loud. I should not have to add a louder beeper but it is something I can fix. I can't fix the InMotion 43.5 MPH short fall. 

Why tell people that it is something that it is not. 

Just because I don't own a Nikola doesn't mean that I haven't used one extensively. They are pretty awesome. I did not think I would like it but I did. 

You can say bad things about any other company. Just keep you opinions to yourself on InMotion. -  That might mean something. 

 

[onizukagto]

This is where the understanding of engineering comes into play. 

To keep a constant 2000W motor stable, it needs to be able to peak at 5000W.

For a EUC to maintain a cruising speed of 40km/h, you need to be able to peak above that, hence 70km/h. 

It's obvious to engineering people, which is why you build a bridge to take 5k tonnes, yet the specs say 2.5k tonnes and you tell people it can carry a max load of 4k tonnes. 

We know a free-wheel / no load spin of the V12 is close to 90-100km/h. 

Should you ride to that speed? Or even advertise that speed? Of course not. 

Can the V12 get close to 70km/h? Sure. But should you advertise it is around 63-65km/h?  

That's where sales people jump in. 

To say that anyone believes the numbers of "sales speak" is absolute, is frankly a bit silly. 

It's like WiFi speed, WiFi 6 was quoted to be 1Gbp, yet all testing by reviewers, they can never get that number, everyone understands this reason. 

As for the mcm5-or something having a higher speed than stated. 

I agree, I wish more wheels, vehicles and anything we ride on, have this same convention. 

I'm a half full kinda bloke, I rather be surprised then disappointed. 

So having any transport that can be faster than "sales speak" is great. From a riders point of view, but to sales? That's a cardinal sin. 

I don't think I've seen any other EUC manufacturer, consistently market the stated max speed to be less than what it is or could be. (correct me if I'm wrong). 

Now I'm just explaining WHY they do this, I'm not saying you should stop being "disappointed" and "angry". 

You are welcome to continuing to be in that state of mind and more than welcome to keep reminding everyone about it. 

Just like everyone else will continue to explain to you why that is.

Cheers 

 

[UniVehje]

I get that it’s a big problem if a company lies on the specs on purpose. But has this actually been confirmed now? The wheel hasn’t even been released yet. There’s one test unit that we know of and still time to either change the official specs or tune the wheel better before the actual release. I’m not expecting the GPS speed to reach sustained 70 km/h either. But maybe a bit too early for the bashing? 🤔 I’ll join in the bashing when we have production units tested by several riders and it still cannot touch 70 km/h at least on the app speedometer. 

49 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

The box says that the Nikola can go 35MPH.

Does not change your argument, but just a minor detail. I don’t think Begode actually announces any top speed. They state safe cruising speed (20 km/h) and no load speed (77 km/h). But never top speed for riding. http://www.begode.com/productinfo/371591.html My understanding is that all the top speed specs for Begodes are user reported or filled in by resellers to make comparisons easier. 

[onizukagto]

2 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

🤔but just a minor detail. I don’t think Begode actually announces any top speed. They state safe cruising speed (20 km/h) and no load speed (77 km/h). But never top speed for riding. http://www.begode.com/productinfo/371591.html My understanding is that all the top speed specs for Begodes are user reported or filled in by resellers to make comparisons easier. 

Woah. That's a great way to get around this "dilemma" if it's true. 

I like this, riders can just fill in the blanks themselves, with no hard expectations, how can you be "disappointed" when you get the EUC in your hands? 

Maybe begode does have a better marketing team.... 

 

Well, that isn't a surprise considering its comparison to Inmotion. Sales.... Isn't their strong point. 

[UniVehje]

9 minutes ago, onizukagto said:

riders can just fill in the blanks themselves, with no hard expectations

Well, you should expect hard landings when testing the top speed for you without tiltback. And not expect to always reach the same speed as someone on a YouTube video. But I agree this would be a better way to do it. Not realistic because of spec sheet comparisons, though. 

[gon2fast]

The V12 could have a Fancy Mode like the V11 to release some additional performance (speculation/suggestion LOL). 

[pkinpdx]

1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

  It is very simple. The box says that the Nikola can go 35MPH. It does that easy. The V12 says that it will go 43.5 MPH. Go 43.5 MPH and tell me how safe you are. Don't worry you can't even get close to that speed. We call that safety. We will pay more for a 100mph wheel that only goes 5mph. That way we can have a really fast, really safe wheel. It might be a great wheel. But it should say 35MPH with cool extras on the box. Then it would be great. If a company is going to lie more about everything, more than any other company I don't trust it. What else are they lying about? and that is called quality? Trust me you don't want to go that fast anyways this wheel is not stable at that speed. -great excuse.  Louder beeps are great. It takes about 15 minutes and $5 to make a GotWay loud. I should not have to add a louder beeper but it is something I can fix. I can't fix the InMotion 43.5 MPH short fall. 

Why tell people that it is something that it is not. 

Just because I don't own a Nikola doesn't mean that I haven't used one extensively. They are pretty awesome. I did not think I would like it but I did. 

You can say bad things about any other company. Just keep you opinions to yourself on InMotion. -  That might mean something. 

 

Every wheel claims that the range is 4 times what you can actually do but that’s ok?  I’m fine if you say bad things about INMOTION or any company but do it from a place of fact and experience.  You haven’t ridden this wheel yet you want to argue against its viability as an option.  I am cautiously optimistic from the little bit of real testimony by someone that actually rode the wheel.  Every company makes radical claims about the performance of their wheels and if pressed can justify the unrealistic conditions that allow it.  I prefer actual capabilities to sales bullshit and so far the V12 looks like a pretty capable wheel.

[GoGeorgeGo]

Honestly does the actual top speed of any wheel really matter? Who is cruising with their wheel red lined. If you need a 40 mph wheel theres really only 2 or 3 options for you to choose from and the v12 isn't one of them. 

I have unexpectedly cut out wheels before, im thankful they where both relatively weak devices so the crashes only left me with some scrapes and bruises. Thing is, both cutouts where under the machines "top speed".  Flirting anywhere near the threshold of the machine is just not safe. All that 70 km/h means is its a 55 km/h cruiser. As a community i think it does new riders a disservice to fret over top speeds, knowing that riding the top speed is a death wish anyways. 

I totally understand the enthusiast is always trying to push the limit. But considering we have wheels much much faster than 70 km/h already, i doubt anyone is seriously buying the v12 because of its top speed. Anyone that concerned with top speeds is buying a sherman or a monster pro. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by GoGeorgeGo

[Unventor]

4 hours ago, RockyTop said:

I guess I see 38 -40 ish as 38 + BS. EVX did not mention killing the Nikola in anything that matters to me. They can keep all the fancy screens and such. 
40ish BS with someone as small as EVX is total BS as 43.5MPH 

How would you feel if you bought a car that said it could go 80MPH yet only goes 50MPH. ....... Gosh you should not go that fast anyways. It is safer that way. I would like to see the GPS on the V12. I bet it only goes 34MPH maybe? 

Let's just look at how big a difference there is in what V12 does and your example of the car. I see that blown way out of proportion.

And the cars I had so far all reported about 5kmh more than they actually drove at that point. This is an intended offset to avoid getting caught speeding even if you change tires.

And I don't see people driving their cars at max acceleration and at top speed either in a car. 

If people want to or not to buy a V12 that is their business. But a few kmh more or less really matters less. And this little difference will not make the wheel any less safe as Inmotion have different design philosophy so on paper it will already have more margin to cope that what most other brands will have. 

But if speed it all that matters there are other choices to pick from.

[Rawnei]

It's obvious that Inmotion advertise 70kmh because they want to be up there with Gotway and Veteran in terms of speed, it's a marketing thing for sure but imo it backfires when it's not really true, the smart thing would be as already been said to not advertise any top speed and let people discover themselves then we wouldn't be having this discussion to start with.

Also as @RockyTop mentioned will be interesting to see actual GPS speed as well, maybe it's even inflated as on the V11 which would be even worse.

And wanting a wheel to stay true to advertised specs doesn't mean you are always pushing the wheel at those specs, you just want the wheel to do what was advertised, if the specs on paper were correct it's just better for everyone and would make it easier to make an informed purchasing decision. I bought the V11 and was sorely disappointed when it really wasn't a 55kmh wheel because that was what I was looking for in a wheel at the time, if I knew about the inflated speed I wouldn't have bought it and I ended up selling it with one of the mayor reasons being that I felt limited and frustrated getting beeps and tiltback around 50, and remember that is the speed you get at full battery and it goes downhill from there.

1 hour ago, gon2fast said:

The V12 could have a Fancy Mode like the V11 to release some additional performance (speculation/suggestion LOL). 

Problem with V11 is that even with fancy mode the speed is inflated by 8% so fancy mode only gives you 51kmh in reality and that is with tiltback and at max battery, so yet again padded numbers that looks good on paper but doesn't feel as good as in reality.

[mrelwood]

 

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How would you feel if you bought a car that said it could go 80MPH yet only goes 50MPH.

Come on now, if this is where you have to go to trying to defend your position, wouldn’t it be just better to let go? In the above example I would feel just as bad as if I had purchased the V12 and it could only do 44km/h instead of an advertised 70. But we all know that’s nowhere near what’s going on.

Quote

I would like to see the GPS on the V12. I bet it only goes 34MPH maybe? 

I would take that bet against you. $100? $2000?

 

4 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

14 inch non suspension wheel with a 3200wh 100v battery but limited top speed of 25 mph!!!

 I’m sure that IM wouldn’t do a wheel like that next... But if they do, I’ll have to eat my hat!

 

3 hours ago, RockyTop said:

  It is very simple. The box says that the Nikola can go 35MPH.

AFAIK, all recent GW sales boxes say 20km/h as the max speed. That’s off by 200%! The maximum speed without removing tilt-back is 48km/h. That’s 30mph. If anything, that should be viewed as the actual max speed on the Nikola. Not some user reported figure that requires removing the only safety feature of an EUC that actually matters, and which should never be user removable on any self-balancing vehicle.

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But it should say 35MPH with cool extras on the box.

So now we’re down to 35mph? I thought your position was that it’s 40mph? Although Evx said 43.5mph. Talk about a moving goal post... Let’s stay within the facts, please.

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If a company is going to lie more about everything, more than any other company I don't trust it.

That’s a sensible position. But we are talking about a wheel that isn’t yet for sale. It hasn’t even been announced ffs! And the only source for the “announced” top speed is a freaking leaked preliminary version of the user manual! For all we know, the published version could say 65km/h. Or 45km/h. Or freaking 100!

And if we’re talking about the amount of a lie, how much of a lie is the GW max speed of 20km/h? (Answer: Roughly 200%, depending on the model.) I bet you $5000 that the final V12 max speed doesn’t lie as much.

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What else are they lying about?

Referencing to the above, this is getting quite paranoid.

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You can say bad things about any other company. Just keep you opinions to yourself on InMotion.

Sure people can say bad things about Inmotion, but they should be at least in some kind of context and proportion. Getting mad about a single beta tester review barely reaching the max speed of a leaked user manual before the wheel has even been announced just isn’t a fair, rational or sensible position to take from any point of view.

[Ben Hatfield]

Pretty excited about all the wheel customization and tuning.  One of my favorite parts of the S18 is the three pedal height placements - I've ridden at all settings, and even with pedals staggered (different heights), and it changes ride feel.

I never really complained about 3 settings: Hard, Medium, Soft - but it makes a lot of sense to add more user control and flexibility for personal preferences.  I doubt the settings are all that complex, but in time a wheel could have ride profiles (saved sets of multiple settings) that are selected for different type rides

[FinRider]

The "rated" top speed of this wheel will be a non-issue. It is abundantly clear that the "enthusiasts" who want to push the wheel to the limit speedwise will not buy this wheel... there are better mousetraps out there for them. They know it and they do not need more information than what is available already.

This wheel will be targeted to the "larger masses", for whom 25 mph / 40 km/h is more than sufficient. The extra "omph" that this wheel is capable of should be used as a safety factor - more head room for the average user.

There are other factors that are way more important to Inmotion that will determine if they have developed a winning concept here... and in the end that will be measured by sales volumes, not by hurt feelings of a few that are "disappointed" in the wheels real world performance.

The list of features that really matter are imho probably (in no particular order):

• Safety
• Aesthetics
• Build Quality
• Waterproofing
• Mileage
• Customization possibilities

With EUC's we also should not stare blindly at the rated "specs". Mileage for example on cars are reported from laboratory conditions and we all know that they are not accurate, so we should not expect accurate reports from EUC manufacturers either, especially as so many external factors affect the performance of these wheels (rider weight, riding style, etc, etc.)

 

[onizukagto]

2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

It's obvious that Inmotion advertise 70kmh because they want to be up there with Gotway and Veteran in terms of speed, it's a marketing thing for sure

I think it's only obvious to you 

But yes, i agree about the "marketing thing" just sales not being the best and being its lacking sales professional stuff, a typical inmotion trait.

Edited May 11, 2021 by onizukagto

[mrelwood]

3 minutes ago, onizukagto said:

But yes, i agree about the "marketing thing" just sales not being the best and being its lacking sales professional stuff, a typical inmotion trait.

Again, not a single V12 has been sold, and nothing has been advertised (by Inmotion). The product hasn’t yet been announced, and probably isn’t even yet ready.

Isn’t blaming the sales department at this point a bit ridiculous?

[RockyTop]

I read all of the posts.  I agree that the V12 could be a great wheel for "whatever it is".  I actually hope that it turns out to be the best wheel ever. I just care more about what is under the hood than fancy extras and looks.

Fancy Extras:  They are letting you adjust the ride setting more. That is the best extra that I see on the wheel.