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INMOTION V12 (pre-release)


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1 minute ago, /Dev/Null said:

If this launches above $2500 this is a hard no-buy for me.  $2k is already stretching it...

Agree.

It's weird that EUC buyers seem to accept high prices for batteries when the rest of the market pays way less. Here's a recent report on Techspot MIT study shows plunge in lithium-ion battery cost over the last 10 years showing a current price of around $100 per KWh.

10 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

The 100v/1845 Wh Nik+ launched on ewheels at $2550 pre-pandemic and nobody batted an eye.

Those features were brand new then (3" tyre, manoeuvrable and 37mph) but that same wheel is available for way less now (I had one on order for $1800). And that's the price that the V12 will have to compete with.

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2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

And 100V was the hot and new thing! 1845Wh 100V Monster cost as much as the 2400Wh 84V one.

The V11 was/is very reasonably priced. I hope the best that means the V12 will be, too.

I agree. I wouldn't mind downsizing to a v12, but if the price is more than my RS significantly, its hard to bite. 

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1 hour ago, Zopper said:

Begode Nikola Plus weights 27 Kg. And that's basically just an empty shell with batteries. :D The 2kg more V12 should have is not that much difference. A bit more material here and there, a beefy light with its own heatsink, batteries encased in their own watertight boxes, and a few similar changes and you get the 2 kg.

If only I could get the supposed specs of the v12 in a wheel the size and weight of my ACM2, plus solid water resistance, I'd be smitten.  I suppose the limiting factor there is battery tech where the weight of the batteries needed to reliably deliver the power needed for speeds of 60-70kmh can only go so low.  

 

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10 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

Damn physics getting in the way again...;-) It's definitely the combination of bigger batteries and bigger, more powerful motors which are by far the two heaviest components responsible--with no real solution in sight. (Unless/until one of those battery breakthroughs that are perpetually 3-5 years away...)

Everyone parroted the "suspension adds so much extra weight" farce and the reality was that the difference in weight between the very similar V11 and 2200W KS-18XL is only ~2kg--utterly negligible. It's all batteries and motors that really matter.

Yeah. When I was doing a Spring disassembly and cleaning of my V10 and I wanted to check if any water got to the battery compartment, I knew what to expect. But I have been surprised anyway at how light it is when I take out the motor and battery. :D 

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16 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

Everyone parroted the "suspension adds so much extra weight" farce and the reality was that the difference in weight between the very similar V11 and 2200W KS-18XL is only ~2kg--utterly negligible. It's all batteries and motors that really matter.

Someone did an interesting breakdown of the weight of all the components in a typical EUC. I think the batteries were only around 10% of the overall weight. I guess that leaves the motor.

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3 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Someone did an interesting breakdown of the weight of all the components in a typical EUC. I think the batteries were only around 10% of the overall weight. I guess that leaves the motor.

You're likely remembering when Ewheels did it back in 2016 with a tiny 840Wh KS-16S ( https://ewheels.com/makes-electric-unicycle-weigh/ ), but that ratio would almost certainly be different today in modern wheels with batteries more than two or three times that size.

My arbitrary guess for most higher-end wheels today is very roughly thirds--motor somewhere around/probably a bit more than a third of the weight (maybe approaching as much as half), batteries somewhere around/probably a bit shy of a third, and that leaves 'everything else' as the remaining third. Would be super curious to see someone like Ecodrift do a breakdown on a modern wheel. (Or don't they already weigh some components when they disassemble so someone could collate that data to figure out?)

Edited by AtlasP
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I cant wait for someone to build one of the new axial flux electric motors in an outrunner configuration and use it in an EUC. Those things ought to be massively superior performancewise to the current motors, and much lighter to boot.

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54 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

You're likely remembering when Ewheels did it back in 2016 with a tiny 840Wh KS-16S ( https://ewheels.com/makes-electric-unicycle-weigh/ ), but that ratio would almost certainly be different today in modern wheels with batteries more than two or three times that size.

I tried searching for what I remembered but failed so I guess my memory was playing tricks. I certainly don't mind being corrected though - weirdly it's happening more and more often these days which is a bit depressing. :) 

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2 hours ago, Gorcsi said:

V12 is 24s4p config which is 96 cell. One cell is 70g (21700 cell). The raw battery is 6.72 kg+ soldering wires bms etc....

6.72 kg battery in a 29 kg weel. If battery tech improves and it will be only half the weight thats 3kg only. The real weight of the euc comes from the motor.

If battery tech improves and it will be one hundredth of the weight that's 60g only!

Seriously though, a doubling in energy density of batteries isn't something to just throw around - it would completely upend the transportation world. If that actually happened there would be no more ICE cars and trucks on the road.

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9 hours ago, AtlasP said:

My arbitrary guess for most higher-end wheels today is very roughly thirds--motor somewhere around/probably a bit more than a third of the weight (maybe approaching as much as half), batteries somewhere around/probably a bit shy of a third,

Pretty much. Back of the envelope calculation points at V11’s battery being about 6kg (68.5g per cell, 4p20s, plus half a kg for wires, some battery electronics and wraps). Which is 22 % if I remember the total weight correctly. OTH, Sherman’s battery is about 12-13 kg I think and that puts it around 35%.

BTW, Samsung 21700-50G has energy density about 257 Wh/kg, and those are (have been a few months back) among the best in this form factor. So current EUCs are at pretty much as good as they can be with current tech. Source.

Edited by Zopper
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Damn that pricing is out to lunch. The V11 was priced so competitively compared to S18 and even the non-suspension 1500+Wh wheels like 16x...what happened IM??

My second Nikola+ just arrived and I see no reason to upgrade to V12. With all the price drops, this $1700 USD wheel from AliExpress just can’t be beat for value vs performance. 30 min tire changes, solid reliability record and good waterproofing...gonna be hard to beat. V12 better have some real surprises!

Nice headlights and a touchscreen are great and all, but there’s enough price different here to buy yourself an Apple Watch and a professional flashlight/flood light that can wipe the floor with whatever is on the V12...

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