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INMOTION V12 is coming soon? Rumor? No, it's not a rumor. Our engineers are still working hard on the development. We can definitely expect it before June.  Comment below to share with us  w

Unpopular opinion but Sherman is overrated and over-hyped here on the forum anyway, so many people who never even seen one in reality is praising it, we should really stop comparing so much to it.

https://fccid.io/2ADUS-V12/User-Manual/15-V12-UserMan-US-5159274.pdf

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On 1/28/2021 at 4:24 AM, Unventor said:

I think this is a very fair point. I fully understand and appreciate that not all will see the same value in suspension. And that more mechanical solutions bring new issues is not something I will argue against. 

As for the V12 this is a non-suspension wheel that one of the very few things I have confirmed i from from Inmotion directly. 

No suspension - I'm out - back to waiting for a V11F :D

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It should do 55-60mph with 3000+wh have good ground clearance and under $3k. I think if it had these traits it’ll be more popular than the Sherman and more practical than the monster pro.

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For me suspension is now going to be a minimum prerequisite for all my future wheels, so I would like the v12 to have an upgraded suspension from the already good v11, longer range, built in led display(showing speed, battery, temp, settings etc..)so we can rely less on smart phone. I would also like tire options, and maybe wobble detection safety feature to slow down before wobble gets out of your control, maybe I'm asking too much here LOL, anyway those things just came off the top of my head I'm sure I can think of a lot more upgrades.. 

 

Ray

 

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4 minutes ago, Ray Broussard said:

maybe wobble detection safety feature to slow down before wobble gets out of your control

I don't think that's physically possible. The only way for self balancing stuff to slow down is if you lean back unless so unless you slow down or it uses really aggressive push back to move your center of gravity back there isn't any way to do that.

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2 hours ago, Ray Broussard said:

For me suspension is now going to be a minimum prerequisite for all my future wheels, so I would like the v12 to have an upgraded suspension from the already good v11, longer range, built in led display(showing speed, battery, temp, settings etc..)so we can rely less on smart phone. I would also like tire options, and maybe wobble detection safety feature to slow down before wobble gets out of your control, maybe I'm asking too much here LOL, anyway those things just came off the top of my head I'm sure I can think of a lot more upgrades.. 

 

Ray

 

Lets just say I think that will come. But not in the V12. 

Problem is just Inmotion have not said anything about next wheel after the upcoming V12. 

That said I got indication that more suspension is likely to come. 

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6 hours ago, Bluecrazyboy7 said:

It should do 55-60mph with 3000+wh have good ground clearance and under $3k. I think if it had these traits it’ll be more popular than the Sherman and more practical than the monster pro.

So you are prepared to tide an EUC at 60mph?

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1 hour ago, Unventor said:

So you are prepared to tide an EUC at 60mph?

I think its less about actually traveling at that speed and more having the capacity to to handle such speeds thats necessary. For me i want a wheel i would have to be insane to cut it out , something you can do 40+ on a windy day without being afraid of taxing the components to the point of frying.

Imo it will never be safe to ride on the highway, to many maniacs doing 90 and texting. But there are plenty of 45-50 mph roads in my area that would be accessible but asking any machine for a constant 45 is not really adviseable with the current hardware available. 

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26 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

I think its less about actually traveling at that speed and more having the capacity to to handle such speeds thats necessary. For me i want a wheel i would have to be insane to cut it out , something you can do 40+ on a windy day without being afraid of taxing the components to the point of frying.

I agree though I still don't see a 60mph wheel coming any time soon (especially from Inmotion). Full speed on my current wheel is fine for me but you can't go full speed anymore when the voltage drops so a wheel that could still do what ever speed you want to ride at all the way down to 0 would be nice even if you don't ever ride at its 100% battery top speed. 

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An InMotion wheel that can touch 40MPH would be amazing. IM wheels have superior build quality (**IMHO**) so having a well built machine that can cruise between 30-35 with a decent battery solution will get my money. I am not concerned with the wish list stuff as that will drive the cost of the wheel too high and create new points of failure.  

One wish list item, sorry, but if the wheel plans on utilizing a display similar to the Sherman then it would be great to be able to utilize the buttons on the screen to lock/unlock on the wheel instead of a dedicated power button (in addition to override feature in the application). Basically the same method that we use to lock/unlock our cell phones.

Hopefully that could cut down on the sale of EUCs without chargers online LOL.   

 

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51 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I just wounder how long it take before people realise top speed has nothing to fo with how safe a wheel can ride at a certain speed. 

My point is once that wheel either hit an obstacle, bump or hole or an item, the demand for the power spike to maintain balance and speed will put a syrain on the system if the rider do not understand this and just ride with the mindset of I have 20kmh "safety margin". Also at any given time you could have a component failure regardless of your speed. 

On an EUC we don't really have any backup plans. 

So I don't see top speed as an argument at all. 

I can say that I have cleared situations on my V11 due to the suspension that I could not have handled on a non-suspension wheel. So in this reguard I am sure suspension will benefit rider better than 15kmh top speed. 

Anyway I am looking forward to the V12 to see what Inmotion is doing. 

I agree whole heartedly, but im not smart enough to quantify the necessary power delivery that would render overleans practically impossible. Thinking of it in terms of a maximum speed threshold is just easier for me and i believe others to understand and quantify.  If i had enough power delivery to go 65-70 mph, then hitting a bad pothole at 45 shouldnt be an issue. 

For example, i know a sherman can travel 50 mph on the maximum end of power delivery, but what that actually means in terms of amperage or whatever i have no clue. Its easier to think of it in terms of maximum speed potential. And in that regard, i dont think people ever will truely understand how top speed has nothing to do with overlean safety, especially if the wheels are always advertised in terms of speed and not total power output

Edited by GoGeorgeGo
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I would think that top speed IS an indication of power. Its a rough way of looking at it, but it DOES take a certain amount of power to offset speed. The faster we go, the more power it takes to even get that speed. If a wheel can safely overcome all the forces required to maintain 40mph, it surely has enough to maintain 20mph with reserve left over. Maybe instantaneous power isnt as apparent, but if it can do 50mph, theres a pretty safe bet that it can easily maintain 20mph. Maybe speed isnt the most accurate way to determine power, but its the easiest to recognize and its the spec we can verify. Of course, reserve power is a moving goal post. Its also a folley to make big assumptions about how much headroom these manufacturers are leaving at top speeds. I'd imagine each wheel and company has its own idea of what is considered a safe margin. Since rider style and weight and terrain varies so much, it's no doubt that the overhead presumed to be enough, may not be for some circumstances. Of course 'safety' involves so many variables that we can't just assume a more powerful wheel is 'safer' than a smaller, at a speed within BOTH wheels ability. Maybe a bigger wheel is less likely to experience overlean, but this alone doesnt equate to winning in 'safety' altogether.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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4 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I would think that top speed IS an indication of power. Its a rough way of looking at it, but it DOES take a certain amount of power to offset speed. The faster we go, the more power it takes to even get that speed. If a wheel can safely overcome all the forces required to maintain 40mph, it surely has enough to maintain 20mph with reserve left over. Maybe instantaneous power isnt as apparent, but if it can do 50mph, theres a pretty safe bet that it can easily maintain 20mph. Maybe speed isnt the most accurate way to determine power, but its the easiest to recognize and its the spec we can verify. Of course, reserve power is a moving goal post. Its also a folley to make big assumptions about how much headroom these manufacturers are leaving at top speeds. I'd imagine each wheel and company has its own idea of what is considered a safe margin. Since rider style and weight and terrain varies so much, it's no doubt that the overhead presumed to be enough, may not be for some circumstances.

I recently learned most Gotway riders and maybe Shermans turn the tiltback safety function off? Something that InMotion doesn’t allow users to turn off. Tilt back likely requires an ample amount amount of reserve power. Even on Gotway, tiltback has to set quite a bit slower than the top speeds. 

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14 minutes ago, Kekafuch said:

I recently learned most Gotway riders and maybe Shermans turn the tiltback safety function off? Something that InMotion doesn’t allow users to turn off. Tilt back likely requires an ample amount amount of reserve power. Even on Gotway, tiltback has to set quite a bit slower than the top speeds. 

My alarms are set at 176mph or somethng. The sherm allows 37mph alarms and tiltback and then skips to 176m, with nothing in between. Even so, Im fairly certain there is a speed limiter and tiltback built in to the FW, that can't be overridden. I am to assume Veteran has it set on a sliding scale, depending on battery level. Wether or not its much headroom, I dont know, but surely doubt it is. Regardless, Im apt to believe my sherman has more power than my mten, as its capable of going twice as fast for extended periods. Unless the mten is crippled horribly and the sherman isnt, this should be somehwat an indication that the sherman has more headroom at any given speed that the mten can muster.

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3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

It does not. What tilt-back does is to force the rider to start braking. Whether the braking is started by tilt-back or the rider himself accelerating the wheel in front of him to start braking at the same haste, makes extremely little difference. Something like 0.2W if I remember the calculations correctly.

 Practically all the power the EUC uses goes into keeping the pedals horizontal. Adding a slow tilt on top of that takes very little power, no matter if the wheel is stationary without a rider, or going 50km/h with a 250lbs rider leaning forward to accelerate.

How you explain it sounds right about the control loop already keeping the wheel horizontal so many times per second. A bit of tilt back shouldn’t require that much more energy. 
 

But then how come the Veteran Sherman has such a low speed setting for tilt back option and I assume it’s similar for Gotway. Or is tiltback also based on voltage which is  not user configurable? I guess I should read the manual.

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8 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Its also a folley to make big assumptions about how much headroom these manufacturers are leaving at top speeds.

Very true, and free lift speeds may not always give the best indication. Eg a 100v MSX has a free spin of 57mph and will give 43mph on a good day/full battery at 80% beeps. So a 14mph 'buffer' or about 32% headroom.

A Sherman on the other hand has a free spin of 62mph and give 50? Mph on beeps so a 12mph buffer or about 24%.

I would have expected the buffer to be greater the faster the wheel given the increased currents required, but the Sherman seems to go the other way. Or maybe the Sherman's free lift speed is actually firmware limited to be less than the Kv the motor can deliver. We just dont know. Not that it really matters, if the wheel cuts out, it cuts out.

So the question left for buyers is, are Veteran really running less headroom than others to get their crazy top speeds? How much headroom is enough? I am happy with what the 100v MSX gives, are Vet riders happy with their 24%? Maybe Vet can run less due to the bigger packs. Its all guesswork tbh, and we make our choices.

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17 minutes ago, Planemo said:

So the question left for buyers is, are Veteran really running less headroom than others to get their crazy top speeds?

The Sherman has a 10p battery! Less voltage drop means you can get away with margins that are smaller on paper, because you stay closer to them.

Example (no idea if these numbers are realistic): 30% speed margin but 40% voltage drop gives you 18% speed margin after the drop. But 20% speed margin with only 10% voltage drop also gives you 18% speed margin after the drop. Same result!

If I had to guess, I'd say the Sherman has a bigger real life headroom. Not that it matters (to people who respect the beeps), we're talking crazy strong vs. extremely strong here.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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3 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The Sherman has a 10p battery! Less voltage drop

I did consider that, which was why I mentioned it at the end of my post 

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1 minute ago, Planemo said:

I did consider that, which was why I mentioned it at the end of my post 

Yep, just trying to make it more concrete guesswork with some numbers.

The V12 is going to be 4p-6p, so I assume we'll see more like a 30%+ speed margin.

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