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3 minutes ago, /Dev/Null said:

Yeah but we comparing new to new.  A car has way more maintenance items and can't be parked in a small space..  It's not comparable.  

Besides the comparison earlier in the discussion was a euc to a "one wheeled motorcycle" hence I"m comparing it to an actual motorcycle.   As it gets bigger, heavier, and less portable there will be less & less people interested in it.

At the same price, it's going to:

- take longer to charge

- have less range

- have less stability

- cost the same or more.

It's a losing battle and you know it.

I disagree, if you where only buying the device based on specs why wouldnt you buy a scooter or an ebike right now? 

The heavy wheels are incredibly stable, the batteries are the same tech and will charge at the same rate. And why would the price for two tires a larger frame and stronger motors be cheaper than an EUC? The firmware cost is going to be offset by the extra material costs the bike requires. 

Plus a motorcycle needs to be registered and insured while a EUC does not , now i do expect that to change so i have left that put of the discussion but its still a valid reason to buy one currently 

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INMOTION V12 is coming soon? Rumor? No, it's not a rumor. Our engineers are still working hard on the development. We can definitely expect it before June.  Comment below to share with us  w

Unpopular opinion but Sherman is overrated and over-hyped here on the forum anyway, so many people who never even seen one in reality is praising it, we should really stop comparing so much to it.

https://fccid.io/2ADUS-V12/User-Manual/15-V12-UserMan-US-5159274.pdf

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1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

If we add FPM, the euc wins by a long shot :)

Ok. Don’t hate me, but as someone who gets paid to ride a motorcycle, I don’t think there is anything that beats the FPM of a motor. I’ll give you a “close second” on the wheel though. 
 

And @Stumpy... yes! That was the picture!!!!! I would love to see IM make a better mousetrap, er, Sherman and build it to look akin to this eye candy. Just add hex pedals and lose the suspension and I’ll be waiting in line! (And I know the suspension dis is heresy to some of you... sorry but I also like motorcycles better so you can hate me for that too!) :)

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2 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Plus a motorcycle needs to be registered and insured while a EUC does not , now i do expect that to change so i have left that put of the discussion but its still a valid reason to buy one currently 

I feel like this is the real reason you want this theoretical wheel, but by the time this wheel you are asking for comes out there is no way that you won't need to register it. Currently an EUC is in the same league as a moped and is pretty easy to be overlook by the law, there are laws about mopeds but people ride them around my college town without registration and the cops don't stop most of them. That will not be the case if you are going 70 down the highway (I wish it could be though.)

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11 minutes ago, Silver said:

I feel like this is the real reason you want this theoretical wheel, but by the time this wheel you are asking for comes out there is no way that you won't need to register it. Currently an EUC is in the same league as a moped and is pretty easy to be overlook by the law, there are laws about mopeds but people ride them around my college town without registration and the cops don't stop most of them. That will not be the case if you are going 70 down the highway (I wish it could be though.)

I would much rather pay a small insurance and registration fee to freely ride around without fear of confiscation or harrassment. 

I actually believe we as a community need to get ahead of the law and push for legalization before they are just outright banned. It will be a much harder fight to reverse a ban than it will be to instate proper legislation.

Is it really that hard to believe that i want unicycle with the performance of a motorcycle? Watching people rip shermans through the city makes me think im not the only one interested in higher quality beefier wheels. 

Keep in mind we are also heading fast and furious towards a future without gasoline engines. California is set to be completely off gasoline cars by 2030. 

Again i do not expect this future wheel to suddenly appear tommorow. But i do think that is the path we are heading towards.  Im suprised how much pushback the notion gets, to me its the obvious progression of the device. Last mile commuters and sidewalk cruisers are a niche industry compared with personal transportation devices. And if the main limitations are weight and price? We live in the technological age, everything gets smaller and cheaper exponentially with time. Its not like we are 50 years into the development cycles either, wheels are literally rendered obsolete by new releases every 6 months it seems.  The first 30 mph wheel was released in 2018. I just cant imagine we are even touching the edges of a maximized device 

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Just now, GoGeorgeGo said:

I would much rather pay a small insurance and registration fee to freely ride around without fear of confiscation or harrassment. 

Liability insurance would help our cause, but also could cause damage if non riders focus on the extremes. 

In reality though, striking a pedestrian or causing a fire could turn into a financial nightmare in my parts.

 

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10 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Is it really that hard to believe that i want unicycle with the performance of a motorcycle?

I find it hard to believe you think Inmotion would pioneer such a thing. If this was a thread about Veterans next wheel I might understand but Inmotion has shown they aren't going to be the ones pushing the boundary when it comes to speed they provide improvements in other areas and just tag along just close enough in speed not to be left behind. Maybe if Gotway or Veteran make a big break through in speed Inmostion will follow after but they arn't going to unless it's proven first.

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7 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

derail train still rolling.... I think its gna take inmotion giving us some more cookie crumbs to get us back to the station...

Ha, yeah from every youtuber they have under NDA it sounds like they have more information they could give us.

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36 minutes ago, Silver said:

I find it hard to believe you think Inmotion would pioneer such a thing. If this was a thread about Veterans next wheel I might understand but Inmotion has shown they aren't going to be the ones pushing the boundary when it comes to speed they provide improvements in other areas and just tag along just close enough in speed not to be left behind. Maybe if Gotway or Veteran make a big break through in speed Inmostion will follow after but they arn't going to unless it's proven first.

All i expected from the v12 is a large battery. The conversation turned into the future of wheels not current expectations of wheels. 

I thought it was an interesting conversation though, glad to hear others viewpoints! 

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1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

I actually believe we as a community need to get ahead of the law and push for legalization before they are just outright banned. It will be a much harder fight to reverse a ban than it will be to instate proper legislation.

If there is anything to pick up from this conversation it is this: We need unified voice before we get banned. Disagree all you want (in the details) but do part take on the legality actions for EUCs. In europe German and Netherlands  already jumped in ban wagon. The lobbying force and public image of danger won. The average user had no voice in the conversation. Nor did the safety and statistic matter. The legal action we took to change the EU law barely got enough names on it.

Our brothers In RC and drones are all watching as their hobby is being crushed. In Finland the lobbying are so crazy that ONLY one brand meets the standard they want to push in as legal. DJI would be the only brand that you can fly legally.

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Its not so easy as paying a simple registration and insurance fee. For a vehicle to become insurable and treated as a motor vehicle, it has to pass standards. Standards for lighting, signaling, braking, power, emissions etc... None of these things comes cheap or easily. Hell, if we uphold these euc companies to even BS standards, they fail.

Or divided we just might all fall. Drivers licence of any caliber could be requirement to prove the person is aware of road rules. Pretty much the only thing I would agree to at this time. Also having if we could get insurance and our vehicles are road legal that sounds great. 

Would suck to get hit by car. But imagine he running you over on purpose and you having to pay for his damage. Only because he argues in court your vehicle is not road legal nor insured for road use. 

Edited by Tasku
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I am not sure what the point of a "highway" ready euc is. If you have need for that kind of riding, an euc I feel like just wouldn't be anywhere near as practical as a car or motorbike, etc.

You want street legal, that is a different story.. but it just doesn't seem fun at all to me to go much faster than mid 40mph for extended period of times... take into account shifting winds from other cars and trucks traveling at speed, and road conditions. It just doesn't make much sense to me. 

I do hope manufacturers start thinking of making eucs a bit more street legal, but I believe there is alot involved.. including but not limited to accurate instrumentation, lights etc..

Back on topic.. whatever v12 is I hope there is an info dump soon. I'm looking for a new wheel and am kind of holding out to see what this is!

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53 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

As a European rider I don't understand the need for ever higher top speeds.

What? :eff0541f4a:
All my chases with the police on my 16X were not so funny with just 45-48 km/h (close to a faceplant due to cut-off) on a road where cars can also drive and the next narrow escape route is still several kilometers away, even if I have been successful except for once. :efefc8626c:
Police on e-bikes can also reach up to 45km/h and then even an escape through the forest is almost impossible on a Kingsong or Inmotion Wheel.

My desire for more speed is based predominantly for this application! :eff01bbbfc:
(regardless of the fact that 50 km/h is not always enough for me to have lot of fun :efee612b4b:)

 

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21 minutes ago, EUC Custom Power-Pads said:

One of the biggest youtubers? :roflmao:

More like one of the biggest bullshitters with zero clue who would sell his grandmother for a discount at the Wheel and tells all YouTube followers what brings him the most money

Definitely not biggest, I said bigger. He has a couple thousand subs and good production value, relative to other channels. 

But I do agree he sells his soul for discount codes and kickbacks. Super annoying to be watching his videos and have a pop up every 2 min talking about 5% off somewhere. 

 

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2 hours ago, /Dev/Null said:

I give up on you bro.  Stll moving the goal posts.  The dicussion was about treating an EUC like motorcycle. It can park in small spots like a motorcycle and that is about it.  $ for $ it is the losing solution compared to a motorcyle AS YOU TRY TO MAKE IT AS BIG AS A MOTORCYCLE.  As long as it's smaller & more nimble & you can carry it on a train or s bus, or stick it under your seat, it has more uses.

Now you brought in bicycles after bringing in casrs  & I'm sure you'll move onto drones carrying us next.  I'm out.  I"m not repeating myself because you'll move the goalposts agian.  Thanks for playing.

Just having a conversation mate. It's clear you disagree with my thoughts , thats perfectly fine. Not really sure what goalposts you are talking about. We do not have to come to an agreement, neither of us can see the future, and a little discourse is healthy. No reason to "give up on you bro".  We can simply agree to disagree lol. No one wants an EUC the size of a motorcycle, we clearly have a disconnect in what we are talking about. I simply believe we are not close to the peak of these machines, if you think they are nearly maximized, then maybe they are. Only time will tell.

I enjoyed the conversation, sorry if it left you frustrated. 

Edited by GoGeorgeGo
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I see a lot of potential for further development still, even with current technology. The new Tesla 4680 batteries with their tabless design ought to be able to sustain much higher burst discharges and for longer than even 6p 21700 or 18650 cells, even if they "only" deliver continuous power comparable to that.

There is a lot of potential in new electric motors too - just look at what is possible with the new axial flux type motors. There doesnt even exist an outrunner variant of that type of motor yet, although it could built! 

In the R/C flight community brushless motors that have copper coils without an iron core and that are much lighter and more efficient than standard motors have been a thing for years (the Kontronik Tango motors for instance).

Combine those technologies (and there is no reason why that wouldnt be possible) and we could have electric motors that are twice as powerful and only two thirds as heavy as the ones we have now.

The whole possibility of true parallel wired, optional external backpack batteries has remained totally unexplored so far, too.

I also want a power sink like an external resistor wire into which power can be dumped for when I need to go downhill on a 100% charged battery.

Edited by mhpr262
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12 minutes ago, mhpr262 said:

axial flux type motors

Yes! Maintenance free. Iron is gone so.. it is light weight. Best efficiency money can get for electric motor? You get further with less loss. :D Thanks for reminding

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15 hours ago, /Dev/Null said:

Yeah but we comparing new to new.  A car has way more maintenance items and can't be parked in a small space..  It's not comparable.  

Besides the comparison earlier in the discussion was a euc to a "one wheeled motorcycle" hence I"m comparing it to an actual motorcycle.   As it gets bigger, heavier, and less portable there will be less & less people interested in it.

At the same price, it's going to:

- take longer to charge

- have less range

- have less stability

- cost the same or more.

It's a losing battle and you know it. 

Let's imagine a sherman 2 with 150 mile range, weighs 150 pounds & can max go 70mph, and costs $5k.  At 70mph say the range falls to 100 miles.  Why would I buy this over a ninja 400 at $4,599 (MSRP and street is going to be less)?  Where is it going to practically go that a motorcycle can't?  Can you lift it up stairs?  Maybe if you are super strong.  Maybe you can trolley it to an elevator & your desk?  MAYBE.  How do I get it up the front stairs to my house or apartment?  How do I quick fill it like a motorcycle so I can take off again?  Can I take it on the highway?  Nope, still gotta use the slow roads where I don't have to use that with my motorcycle.  It's simply a losing propostion in most cases compared to an actual motorcycle.

 

 I completely agree with you

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