INMOTION V12 (pre-release)

[Silver]

20 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

THIS IS NOT how its done in usa. Time is too valuable to waste on risk of 'good enough' not being acceptable.

It's almost like if you pay your workers more they do a better job

[VikB]

2 minutes ago, Silver said:

It's almost like if you pay your workers more they do a better job

I've been involved in manufacturing in Canada and the USA. There are definitely amazing folks building great products and there are also Mr. Almosts pumping out mediocrity. I certainly don't assume Made in Canada/USA means a product will be high quality as a default.  

[Silver]

Just now, VikB said:

I certainly don't assume Made in Canada/USA means a product will be high quality as a default.  

I was not at all saying that that all USA or Canada products are high quality or that some Chinese products aren't better then ones that can be found in the USA. but when Chinese workers make so little it should be not surprise that it creates a culture of "good enough" especially in a system that is all about the race to the bottom.

[WI_Hedgehog]

Not to get too far off topic, on the subject of "quality" you might be surprised at what "close enough" (chabuduo) means.

 

[shellac]

The blurb @WI_Hedgehog posted is just low quality sinophobic anti-China drivel. It comes from a website that is trying to sell its services as a middle man to Chinese manufacturing, so of course they will try to spread FUD about China so people don't go out on their own without the middle man.

The functional equivalent to that article would be someone in China writing about how Americans believe in "good enough" manufacturing and that's why US manufacturing shouldn't be trusted. See how ridiculous that sounds?

 

3 hours ago, VikB said:

I've been involved in manufacturing in Canada and the USA. There are definitely amazing folks building great products and there are also Mr. Almosts pumping out mediocrity. I certainly don't assume Made in Canada/USA means a product will be high quality as a default.  

 

This is the right take. Good quality or poor quality manufacturing depends on the people behind it and has little to do with country or culture. China can make a flawless iPhone/Pixel phone or a wheel that spontaneously combusts, just like the US can make a 737 MAX that eats shit shortly after takeoff.

And I agree that this is far off topic.

[Jon Stern]

5 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I'm just wondering... Does ANY company that manages their own marketing, think to pass ALL information thru a proof reader? If I was making a product to sell in a market that didnt speak english, couldnt I find a native translator to proof read EVERYTHING, to ensure I'm not undermining my product with poor translations? Maybe find a french person to check the french. Maybe a chinese person to check the chinese. And so forth? After spending 1000's with so much riding on success in a competitive market, it just seems a smart expense. Surely this extra step isnt that uncommon?

Just make sure you don't ask Americans to proof read English! 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Jon Stern

[Tawpie]

wait, what's the topic again?

[Silver]

1 minute ago, Tawpie said:

wait, what's the topic again?

Killing time until Inmotion actually says anything 

[Jon Stern]

4 hours ago, Silver said:

I was not at all saying that that all USA or Canada products are high quality or that some Chinese products aren't better then ones that can be found in the USA. but when Chinese workers make so little it should be not surprise that it creates a culture of "good enough" especially in a system that is all about the race to the bottom.

Who says they make so little? Operator pay has gone up substantially in China. What matters is whether they think they are paid little or not, not what the amounts converted in to US$ sound like to us (with our local cost of living). There's a reason why hundreds of millions of people have left the countryside and flocked to the city for what we think are measly pay rates - because they think it's a lot of money that will lead to a much higher standard of living, and in general they are right. They work long hours, but less than if they had stayed in their villages farming and doing back-breaking work. And they have money left over to shop (a popular activity in China) and to send back home to their families.

Now it's true that operators don't give a shit in China. They are mercenaries for hire, and they jump ship and go to the factory across the road for a little more money at an incredible frequency. I've seen operator turn over rates of 20% a month, but the reason they don't care about the quality of the product is not as simple as saying because they're not getting the kind of pay that decadent Westerners would even get out of bed for.

Actually, you'll find a lot less operators in most factories these days. When I first started going to factories in China in 2010, everything was manual. Gradually robots started to take over, to improve quality (often at the demand of their Western clients), and to reduce cost compared to rooms full of ever-more-expensive operators and their on-site lodging (which could instead be tuned in to another factory).

Also, it's not true that there's a race to the bottom in China. There's actually a race to wherever they think they can make money. For some that's down, but for others they're seeing the opportunity to go up. It's such a big country that there's no single, simple story.

What I do know is that our arrogance will destroy us. When I was a kid growing up in the UK, made in Japan meant cheap crap. British industries (like the car industry) showed Japanese visitors around their modern, and relatively automated factories to show them how it was done as a good will gesture. The British bike industry laughed at the Japanese 50cc mopeds and said they'll never be a threat to us. Ten years later, the British bike industry was largely gone.

 

 

[AtlasP]

Talk about off-topic, not even merely a divergence about QA/assembly, but doing so specifically here, in a thread dedicated to the one company out of the current four EUC manufacturers that is leaps and bounds above the others in this specific regard..

[meepmeepmayer]

New wheel pre-release topics are always like that. Emotions run high, information runs low. The pressure has to go somewhere, might as well be contained here. Well that's my personal view

This topic will be closed on release, so precise and on-topic info does not get mixed up with the mess that came before it.

But in the mean time, please try to talk about the V12 here.

Edited March 26, 2021 by meepmeepmayer

[WI_Hedgehog]

Regarding quality, that's exactly why you should buy an InMotion--that's one of their strengths, and where they lead the competition.

Chabuduo is a way of life in China, and it's not necessarily a bad thing--sometimes "good enough" is actually good enough. If we're talking about a $50 hoverboard that goes walking speed, as long as it doesn't burn your house down and lasts a year or two, "good enough."

However, we're getting into $2,000 and $3,000 wheels that go 30+ MPH for 50+ miles, and failure at that speed and distance isn't a good thing--imagine hanging out of a car over the pavement at 35 MPH and your buddy says, "It's not that you're going to jump when you're ready--I'm going to push you at the worst possible moment, and swerve at the same time." Your EUC dying 20 miles from home sucks, a trip to the hospital emergency room is far worse.

InMotion focuses on quality in a culture that focuses on quantity. The Japanese are known for continual perfection of whatever it is they do (like knives, electronics, vehicles), the Chinese are known for making things in volume (WalMart, Menards). When it's your skin on the line, quality becomes important. That's why I keep saying "understand the culture, and know what you're buying." There's nothing wrong with getting an incredibly fast EUC at a really reasonable price for the technology, however there's a point where many people say, "Riding a wheel is dangerous enough without the risk of it cutting out or starting on fire, I want reliability."

The airline industry has an incredible record for safety--crashes rarely happen; on a wheel we expect them and would also like to minimize them. InMotion has a pretty good quality control system in place, and a large testbed where wheels are put through their paces before shipment. They don't make the fastest EUCs, but they do focus on rider safety, innovation, and quality. They listen to customers and respond in kind, and have cutting-edge technology. They also provide a pretty good work environment for their employees which is reflected in the quality of their products.

Sometimes product issues occur, which is to be expected in a price-competitive market. If they do, having a reputable local vendor (the middle-man) that will get the situation resolved (ewheels, speedy feet) can be invaluable. They not only can suggest how you can get "the right stuff" for your needs, but also act as a valuable go-between and provide feedback to the manufacturers.

InMotion has a quality line of products, including EUCs. They innovated EUC riding with the V11's suspension, taking smart, safe approaches; they're also focused on resolving the issues that come with new technology. Given InMotion's history, the V12 should be another dependable wheel that handles exceptionally well. If a well-designed, properly assembled, reliable product is important to you, the V12 is pretty exciting.

Edited March 26, 2021 by WI_Hedgehog

[RockyTop]

9 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

Just make sure you don't ask Americans to proof read English! 

 

Hey!! That hurt my feeling!! I due all the proof read for China! I live here long time.

 
My best work- “Please dispose of children before use”  and “Do not let children make work”

[Unventor]

43 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Hey!! That hurt my feeling!! I due all the proof read for China! I live here long time.

 
My best work- “Please dispose of children before use”  and “Do not let children make work”

Might be.

But your Black Crow stands are quite good. I am pretty happy with the V11 stands (got 2) from you. 

So I hope you get the V12 around you to make stand for that too. 

Now I am not planning to buy a V12. But like you have seen in PM I wrote to you today, there could be a good new sales point why to pick up one if your stands, that could apply for any wheel. 

[RockyTop]

51 minutes ago, Unventor said:

So I hope you get the V12 around you to make stand for that too. 

I made a prototype V12 stand last week using the limited info that I have. I still need to test it. 
 

[shellac]

@Inmotion please release more V12 info and deliver us from amateur Racial Science hour, thank you 

[Waulnut]

Someone posted on fb, from kuji

[FullTilt]

First thing I notice is the lower placement of powerpads. Perhaps w/ a bit of finesse, one could create a set that sits higher.  Would be great if reviewers who use pads will talk about how placement affects riding dynamics for the v12 and in general. 

As powerpads are becoming more indispensable as wheels get heavier, perhaps "adhesible real estate" will become factored into the design of future wheels in general.

[GoGeorgeGo]

20 minutes ago, FullTilt said:

First thing I notice is the lower placement of powerpads. Perhaps w/ a bit of finesse, one could create a set that sits higher.  Would be great if reviewers who use pads will talk about how placement affects riding dynamics for the v12 and in general. 

As powerpads are becoming more indispensable as wheels get heavier, perhaps "adhesible real estate" will become factored into the design of future wheels in general.

Looks like the v11 pads. They where designed to sit down on your shoes like that so they can act as jump pads as well as push pads. I really like the stunt pad design, clearly becoming the go to pad configuration for many riders these days and i can see why. They give you so much more control and stability especially for offroad and aggresive riding. Have had my clark pads "save me" more than once from unexpected jolts.

[Unventor]

22 hours ago, shellac said:

@Inmotion please release more V12 info and deliver us from amateur Racial Science hour, thank you 

Unfortunately it seems most (read practically all) Inmotion staff pulled put of social media channels they created and very long in between here on the forum too. 

Even my inside contact points have started to drop out. It is very hard to reach Inmotion staff these days. So I really doubt they are looking at our discussion here on tjis forum these days. They don't even react on telegram anymore. 

Yes I know 2/3 the reason, why it is like this. But I don't know the full picture. 

Now Inmotion have 11th anniversary in a few days according to their Aliexpress global official webshop. So I guess that could be a fair bet as a release/presentation date. All in marketing are very busy with V12 release preparations according to mu sources. 

The secound reason, well that is not pubmic yet. But I guess we will see that in a few weeks. 

And then their is the stuff don't know. That is probably going to show in 6-12 months from is my estimate. 

[Unventor]

Just now, GoGeorgeGo said:

Looks like the v11 pads.

No such thing. 

Inmotion release their pads to work with different wheels. Even in the box it states V8 series, V10 series and V11. From the pictues we have sern so far of the V12 and looking at my Inmotion pads I see no reason why they shouldn't fit the V12. 

They work with V11. But the fit is a bit odd. So I would not call them . V11 pads. 

[mike_bike_kite]

1 hour ago, Waulnut said:

I quite like the look of it in this picture. I still can't see where the rear light goes and the fact that all pictures show the front suggests they've forgotten to put a rear light on. It's also unclear how high the handle goes - will it be comfortable for me at 6'3" or will I have to stoop all the time? The main deciding factor for me though is price.

[Scottie888]

Daayam if the V12 doesn't look better (much better IMO) in the wild than in the hyper tease IM/evX vids (no offense intended Micky). At least that shot from Kuji does. Looks more 'manly/macho camacho..ish' than I expected. I like it,

[evX_Mick]

38 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

Daayam if the V12 doesn't look better (much better IMO) in the wild than in the hyper tease IM/evX vids (no offense intended Micky). At least that shot from Kuji does. Looks more 'manly/macho camacho..ish' than I expected. I like it,

sounds more like fanboy-ism to me. Its ok KUJI is better. One day I'll catch him.

[Scottie888]

7 minutes ago, evX_Mick said:

sounds more like fanboy-ism to me. Its ok KUJI is better. One day I'll catch him.

Hahaha maybe. I have to admit that I 1st got wind of this EUC thangy from a Kuji vid on the MSP which got my eyes wide opened. And you know that what they say about can't forgetting the 1st time...🤪

Frankly its more a dig at your tease vid than anything so 'nuff of that. Give us the full Monty willya 👍