INMOTION V12 (pre-release)

[mike_bike_kite]

56 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Gotta disagree a little here, waterproof batteries is a HUGE upgrade. Also an automatic "smart" headlight is an industry first, the nikola light is aweful. And the touchscreen is an awesome creature comfort.

But just looking at the inside of the wheel is where the difference is so apparent. The v12 looks like someone spent time and money creating a well designed piece of technology. The inside of the nikola looks like a rats nest of wires leading to shrink wrapped batteries glued to a plastic shell lol

Although that said, it needs to come in at ~2400$ to remain in the Nikola/16x/RS category. If it comes in over 2500$ it will not be that big of a market disruptor

The Nikola has a completely waterproof case so the batteries are safe from water.

The smart light came out on the 16X (and I seem to recall another wheel does it as well). I also guess any wheel with firmware upgrades could alter the angle of the light according to the speed by just altering the ride angle a tiny fraction.

The Nikola 100v doesn't look bad on the inside and I'm pretty sure the batteries live in a compartment and aren't glued in. I've seen a fair few disassembly videos of the Nikola 100v and it seems fairly well laid out with the minor exception of the speakers.

The Nik's also been around some time so it's available at substantially less than $2400 if you look around. That also means it's proven which counts for a fair bit.

Obviously we have to wait for reviews and pricing but I just don't get the enthusiasm for the V12 over existing wheels.

[GoGeorgeGo]

9 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

The Nikola has a completely waterproof case so the batteries are safe from water.

The smart light came out on the 16X (and I seem to recall another wheel does it as well). I also guess any wheel with firmware upgrades could alter the angle of the light according to the speed by just altering the ride angle a tiny fraction.

The Nikola 100v doesn't look bad on the inside and I'm pretty sure the batteries live in a compartment and aren't glued in. I've seen a fair few disassembly videos of the Nikola 100v and it seems fairly well laid out with the minor exception of the speakers.

The Nik's also been around some time so it's available at substantially less than $2400 if you look around. That also means it's proven which counts for a fair bit.

Obviously we have to wait for reviews and pricing but I just don't get the enthusiasm for the V12 over existing wheels.

The nikola case is fully submersible? I wasnt even aware it had an ip rating. My buddys nikola has shrink wrapped batterys attached to the shell with double sided tape and the control board looks sloppy compared to the v11. I really hope they are not forcing tiltback as the means of adjusting the light angle, that would be a sloppy implementation imo. My guess was seeing the 3 lights and what appears to be a sensor, that at higher speeds the top light would come on as a "high beam" to help illuminate the path. But im just guessing i have not got my hands on the wheel. I would also guess the sensor could probably detect headlighta as well and turn off the high beam when oncoming traffic is detected. (Guesses)

Cant wait to see some videos of this bad boy in action and get the real scoop on the nitty gritty

Edited March 16, 2021 by GoGeorgeGo

[Tawpie]

The 'smart light' on the 16X also dims the low beam based on speed, so it's at its dimmest when you're stopped. Cute, but not particularly useful. Auto high beam is however, very nice so if IM added that it'll be welcome I'm sure.

[Waulnut]

1 hour ago, xiiijojjo said:

Any price speculation? I'm thinking somewhere between Nikola and RS price

I agree on the price. It has to be between $2k and $2250 imo. If even just for the larger battery size. 

 

1 hour ago, xiiijojjo said:

I'd also love for Gotway to make quality products and wish for an endless supply of money to fuel my hedonism but we all have to settle at some point... 

If I end up with a v12, assuming there shouldn't be big issues since it is standard bearings and not hollowcore, I hope it would be my last for a few years... But that hasn't happened yet.. Stimulus check has been a big help fortunately 😅😅

[GoGeorgeGo]

1 minute ago, Waulnut said:

I agree on the price. It has to be between $2k and $2250 imo. If even just for the larger battery size. 

 

If I end up with a v12, assuming there shouldn't be big issues since it is standard bearings and not hollowcore, I hope it would be my last for a few years... But that hasn't happened yet.. Stimulus check has been a big help fortunately 😅😅

I can't imagine it would be cheaper than the Nikola and the RS. Its such a higher quality product with the same specs. The RS is 2150 and the Nikola is 2200, 2300-2400$ for all the extra quality and add ons i think has to be the range, i would be disappointed to see it come in at $2500+

Think of it this way, if you could get a nikola+ with waterproof batteries for an extra 100-200$ would you do it? I know i would 

[meepmeepmayer]

IMO it should be cheaper than the V11. No suspension, and no substantial extra parts in terms of production cost (unless that screen is really high-end).

2000 (€ with tax or USD without tax) and it will sell like hotcakes. I believe the V11 has been pretty successful, I think also because its price is better than it could have been.

What I also like about this thought (reasonable price and competitive speed+battery)  is that it would mean Gotway would have to reduce their crazy prices a bit. 3000 for a 2700Wh wheel (EX.N) and 3500 for the EX and MPro, with their typical build quality, isn't going to cut it in such a market.

I wonder what KS is doing... they might show something soon. They did show the S18 in reaction to the V11.

Exciting times!

Edited March 16, 2021 by meepmeepmayer

[Scottie888]

6 hours ago, xiiijojjo said:

I realize i sometimes come off as a Gotway super fan but i actually hate them and wish for their imminent financial ruin. I don't mind waiting 1-2 years for Inmotion or others to catch up to Gotway/veteran stats as long as Gotway is burned down in a fire of their own making! And when that day eventually comes i just hope Veteran doesn't also hire the Gotway goop gun guy. For the sake of all of us he must be present during the fire.

I totally understand your angst, anxiety & frustrations with GW/BG esp after their recent numerous debacles & seeming lack of CS. And I'm even not talking fires. The hollow bearing issues are enough to drive me insane if I was an early adopter.

Nevertheless, I'm reminded of this thought to be careful of what we wish for. Without GW, would we have 100v wheels? Would we be riding >30mph? Would we have Veteran Sherman? Heck would we even have so many new models & innovations in the sport?

Personally I wish GW/BG to be better. I wish they would strive to build better products with good fit & finish without the internals of something my 12yr old nephew would slap together. I wish them to keep pushing the envelope of performance so we, the consumer have choices as they have with motorcycles (& much everything else). 

I wish GW/BG to wake up & smell the coffee to take a look at the landscape that's changed since they produced their 1st wheel. I hope they wise up & adapt to the needs of us, their loyal customers. I know its possible if GW/BG really wants it as its primarily of a mindset.

What I do not want is for GW/BG to go out of business. That would leave one less mfgr, one less reason for the remaining to innovate & perhaps many reasons to not bring competitively priced products to us.

Regardless of how I personally feel about this new V12, I sincerely hope it succeeds as planned as then, its going to be another match lit to remind the rest to not rest on their laurels. 

[Tasku]

So about the teaser video on V12.. (posted by EvX and Inmotion)

What do you think about the acceleration sound in the video, is it special effect or does the wheel really sound alien like that?

Would that sound be optional effect that you can select from app?

[mike_bike_kite]

50 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

The nikola case is fully submersible? I wasnt even aware it had an ip rating. My buddys nikola has shrink wrapped batterys attached to the shell with double sided tape and the control board looks sloppy compared to the v11. I really hope they are not forcing tiltback as the means of adjusting the light angle, that would be a sloppy implementation imo. My guess was seeing the 3 lights and what appears to be a sensor, that at higher speeds the top light would come on as a "high beam" to help illuminate the path. But im just guessing i have not got my hands on the wheel. I would also guess the sensor could probably detect headlighta as well and turn off the high beam when oncoming traffic is detected. (Guesses)

Cant wait to see some videos of this bad boy in action and get the real scoop on the nitty gritty

No wheel is fully submersible but you can happily ride through puddles or rain without caring on the Nikola 100v. I know those pesky Russians have a video of a wheel coming out of water but would you buy that wheel afterwards? besides, that particular wheel was heavily modified.

All wheels have shrink wrapped batteries, it's done for protection (dust, water, vibration). Often manufacturers will apply some tape to stop the batteries from shaking in their compartment. Your initial statement implied that that's how the batteries were supported within the (wheel) case on the Nik.

I was suggesting that a change in angle of a degree "could" easily give you high and low beam on any wheel. That's not how it's done on any current wheel. I didn't say that's how it's done on either the Nik or the V12. I was simply pointing out this wasn't the first wheel to have adjustable lighting as you stated.

The ip rating given to all wheels is an estimated ip rating given by the manufacturer to themselves. It's more a statement of intent than a true fact. It's nice that they give themselves a good ip rating but I'd be more interested in the waterproofness of the whole wheel than one component within it. 

 

[GoGeorgeGo]

16 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

No wheel is fully submersible but you can happily ride through puddles or rain without caring on the Nikola 100v. I know those pesky Russians have a video of a wheel coming out of water but would you buy that wheel afterwards? besides, that particular wheel was heavily modified.

All wheels have shrink wrapped batteries, it's done for protection (dust, water, vibration). Often manufacturers will apply some tape to stop the batteries from shaking in their compartment. Your initial statement implied that that's how the batteries were supported within the (wheel) case on the Nik.

I was suggesting that a change in angle of a degree "could" easily give you high and low beam on any wheel. That's not how it's done on any current wheel. I didn't say that's how it's done on either the Nik or the V12. I was simply pointing out this wasn't the first wheel to have adjustable lighting as you stated.

The ip rating given to all wheels is an estimated ip rating given by the manufacturer to themselves. It's more a statement of intent than a true fact. It's nice that they give themselves a good ip rating but I'd be more interested in the waterproofness of the whole wheel than one component within it. 

 

I cant wait to see someone test the batteries lol ipx7 is defined as submersible in 3 feet of water for 30 seconds. Who is the brave soul that will plug those bad boys in and fire up a wheel lol . They are the most expensive component by far though so those being waterproof is the most important imo not to mention on a safety standpoint, a water short could easily start a fire if it occurs in the battery. A dunk in the water will fry the control board still but the motor and battery should be fine, which dramatically reduces repair costs in such an incident.

The nikola has like a little squared off compartment for the batteries but the batteries themselves are not encased. Like with the v11 the batteries are in a case inside of the case and attached to the frame with screws. The nikola are taped to the inside of the battery compartment, i just personally like the fit and finish of the v11 batteries way more and it sounds like the v12 batteries have even taken it to the next level 

[Waulnut]

Anything but having a lower control board next to the battery. 

[meepmeepmayer]

Just place the board in a waterproof box that also acts as a nice heatsink. Then you can put it wherever.

[jimjam.nyc]

My real question is... is mickey riding this thing around NYC to test it out.. and if so, how has it not been spotted in the wild yet?

. 

 

 

 

 

[stephen]

I like the v12 I also like the 16" wheel my 16x is one pig my best wheels for everything so given that the v12 will have the torque and range especially with the new 2500w motor it should cover everything but with added top speed

[Asphalt]

Did anyone else notice that the V12 has gone through a bunch of certifications?

CE, FCC, ETL

I'd assume Ninebot did this as well, but has any other EUC manufacturer certified their wheels to this extent?

[Tasku]

2 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

Did anyone else notice that the V12 has gone through a bunch of certifications?

CE, FCC, ETL

I'd assume Ninebot did this as well, but has any other EUC manufacturer certified their wheels to this extent?

Maybe they also intend to lobby like ninebot did, making their devices the new standard. 

[shellac]

Pro tip to inmotion, do your FCC certification stuff after you’ve already done the product reveal to avoid scooping your own product and better control the narrative around it. 

[Tasku]

3 minutes ago, shellac said:

Pro tip to inmotion, do your FCC certification stuff after you’ve already done the product reveal to avoid scooping your own product and better control the narrative around it. 

DJI revealed one of it's new product on that same listing too. Internet gone way more wild about it. The FCC test is about the 40 channels of bluetooth communication in shielded room. So far I feel I got speculation and rumours, not the whole picture. 

[Kekafuch]

5 minutes ago, shellac said:

Pro tip to inmotion, do your FCC certification stuff after you’ve already done the product reveal to avoid scooping your own product and better control the narrative around it. 

There’s a line up of consultants throwing their cards at companies like InMotion. They know exactly what they are doing. incubating young groups of engineers with startup mentalities, pitting them to become more in tune with global ways of doing business. 

I even think large investors who influence consumer electronics sectors can indirectly cause all the EUC companies to comply with what’s beneficial to the industry at large. Mfg Facilities, distribution, suppliers are a known quantity for the people in the actual business day to day. Largest bidder , usually the market leader will come away w the latest tech. Tech license holders also won’t be fooled knowing how fast things can change and how one new team can come up w new game changing ideas fast. 

[mike_bike_kite]

29 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

Did anyone else notice that the V12 has gone through a bunch of certifications?

CE, FCC, ETL

I'd assume Ninebot did this as well, but has any other EUC manufacturer certified their wheels to this extent?

Does this mean they actually took the wheel to be officially tested or does it mean that Inmotion believes it should pass but hasn't actually tested the product (like most manufacturers do with their IP rating). I can't say that it bothers me too much either way but it would be interesting to know.

[Tasku]

50 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

My real question is... is mickey riding this thing around NYC to test it out.. and if so, how has it not been spotted in the wild yet?

. 

 

 

 

 

I bet he went to test it out at Florida! There he would be just another Florida-man and nobody none the wiser. 

EvX keeps the chatter up and is positive image to our hobby.

Last podcast he said something along the lines that he is interested to improve the scene as hobbyist and has safety in mind. 

I think we need that positive image and public opinion to our side.

[Kekafuch]

2 minutes ago, Tasku said:

 

I think we need that positive image and public opinion to our side.

I totally agree. EUC is still a small group of people but operating in a public space of major cities so become visible to many in public and online. 
 

i feel group rides raining down on the public is not a good image. Especially if taking up multiple lanes of traffic. The community needs to decide how to manage this image. 
 

Positive front, wouldn’t it be something if EUC riders decided on a day to go and pick up garbage along bike paths? I think that could be a very positive action. The image of law enforcement ticketing a group who cleans the streets? We need to have a big win with public image or its too easy to get regulated. 

[houseofjob]

6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

For what? It has a fan already (presumably). Or do you mean for the battery? In that case: f**k no!! We don't need unnecessarily complicated stufff. Passive cooling would be ideal, no fan noise.

For the board MOSFET cooling.

Maybe many on these forums don't ride their wheels as long, fast and hard, but cooling is absolutely the #1 problem for higher speed 100V wheels IMHO, and the existing fan solution is super inadequate, most just blow hot air around enclosed in a box, especially if the transmission from FETs to heatsink structure is sub-optimal via thermal pads (instead of thermal paste + mica pads), and the heatsink itself is inadequately sized for proper heat escape absorption/distribution as well.

I've seen way too many wear-over-time 100V issues, MOSFET smoking up, etc.

The below timestamp shows the Tesla Model S controller, with humongous heatsink frame and liquid cooling goo falling out of it:

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by houseofjob

[AtlasP]

Put this all in perspective--in 2021 InMotion is making a 100v wheel that is speed competitive w/ the 100v MSX/MSP/RS/Nik+ etc. That's fast enough not just for the 90% or 95%, but for the 99.[SomeOtherDigitsHere]%. And they're innovating on waterproofing at a time when Begode's reputation regarding assembly/QA and fires and general safety is in a death-spiral/really at an all-time low.

Between Veteran capturing the absolute-highest-end super-vocal super-minority, and InMotion beginning to encroach on the mainstream 100v side, Begode continues to be squeezed out/I just don't see how they will continue to compete much longer. (Certainly not by focusing on $3700, 90+ pound behemoths that have reviewed poorly.)

Edited March 17, 2021 by AtlasP

[jimjam.nyc]

2 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

Put this in perspective--in 2021 InMotion is making a 100v wheel that is speed competitive w/ the 100v MSX/MSP/RS/Nik+ etc. That's fast enough not just for the 90% or the 95%, but for the 99%.

And the interior photos look gorgeous in a time when Begode has gotten so bad that eWheels is stopping selling wheels with Begode's own battery packs anymore and has to make their own battery packs to sell inside Begode wheels.

With the V8F/V10F series alone InMotion already owned over 60% of the market. Then with the introduction of the V11 that number had to be even higher. And now they target the only market segment of any notable size still remaining to them.

Between Veteran capturing the highest-end minority, and InMotion encroaching on the mainstream 100v side, and on top of Begode's precipitous fall in general public perception, Begode continues to be squeezed out of existence/I just don't see how they will continue to compete.

I know its a small segment of people.. but what about those who want 20, 22 and 24 inch wheels.. there are some out there who swear by the monsters and exn type wheels?

This is also assuming the V12 takes off.. Which i have a feeling it will be pretty popular.. I know i am itching to get a pre-order in.. 

I am also wondering what KingSong has brewing in their camp.. I wonder if they will counter this wheel with something.. Or possibly try to take a slice of that bigger wheel segment of people..