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3D printers, what do you recommend and why? To be used for EUC related stuff


Unventor

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Okey I am now starting to bit the bullet. I work with printer a lot just not 3D printers. And the more I research the more complex this gets to make a choice. 

So why not just ask the community what you guys use?

I could make some bullet points guidelines, however since this is new territory for me I would probably miss out some important parts to consider. 

So care to share your set up and what is good/bad and what you would like to improve or change? 

I am looking to get my first 3D printer maybe. I have look at this before but postpone the decision and the thec has moved forward since then. 

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I use a creality cr10 v3. It wasnt the cheapest but its quality is the same of the cheapest. Its the most finicky damn hobby I've messed with so far. Ironically, just last night I printed an object that took 24hrs and an entire $25 roll of Kodak. Upon removing the part, my print bed glass exploded into pieces all over the place. So now, I get to order more glass. Just one of the MANY little things that can happen. Its a constant struggle to keep nozzles clean and heat blocks from getting gummed up. I installed a premium E3d gold coated hot end and removed it, as it was WORSE. I installed a usa made microswiss hot end and again, no improvements. I think you have to spend a fortune for quality and be thinking of some certain manufacturing reason, or you have to be willing to grab anohter hobby. I'd say 3d printing is like building model cars. Its finicky, time consuming but could be fun. I did learn quickly that 3d printing is VERY particular about what you can and can't print.

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4 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I think you have to spend a fortune for quality and be thinking of some certain manufacturing reason, or you have to be willing to grab anohter hobby. I'd say 3d printing is like building model cars. Its finicky, time consuming but could be fun. I did learn quickly that 3d printing is VERY particular about what you can and can't print.

I have been tempted several times to try 3D printing as there are many occasions when I would like to make a bracket, clamp, spacer, small box or some other similar thing in the shed. Your woes just put me off though, I think it would drive me nuts and more importantly, I don't have the time to continually mess around. A shame really.

I do appreciate your genuine thoughts though, sounds like a rabbit hole I don't think I want to go down just yet.

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16 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I have been tempted several times to try 3D printing as there are many occasions when I would like to make a bracket, clamp, spacer, small box or some other similar thing in the shed. Your woes just put me off though, I think it would drive me nuts and more importantly, I don't have the time to continually mess around. A shame really.

I do appreciate your genuine thoughts though, sounds like a rabbit hole I don't think I want to go down just yet.

Don't let me put you off entirely. It is usefull. I can only speak from the hobby invester point of view. I was a little surprised at how much I needed to learn. I mean durr.. you gotta know how to design something if you want to print it. If you come from a background in that kind of thing, Im sure you'd find it much easier. Me, Im learning from ZILCH but a backround in mechanics. Luckily the building and spec part, I kind of understand. If you are looking to just print little bullshit random stuff, you can prolly find a smalle cheap printer and follow directions. If you want parts for design and such, you either need spend a lot or know a lot. Again, this is just from wha I've found for myself. I like to tinker tho, and i like to learn new stuff. However, it definitely can be a rabbit hole. Getting repeatable durability and expecting strong products is tough. Im likely to think that cnc lathes and castings are more suited for structural things. Or at least you better get ready to invest in an industrial sense.

Im pretty sure if i get another printer, I'll simply build one from parts, or buy a skeleton and pick/choose pieces. Its amazing how many choices you have and how inexpensive a serious upgrade to the consumer shit, can be. I had to basically rebuild and use new firmware on my brand new creality anyhow.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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14 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I have been tempted several times to try 3D printing as there are many occasions when I would like to make a bracket, clamp, spacer, small box or some other similar thing in the shed. Your woes just put me off though, I think it would drive me nuts and more importantly, I don't have the time to continually mess around. A shame really.

I do appreciate your genuine thoughts though, sounds like a rabbit hole I don't think I want to go down just yet.

The same with me, I've had a Prusa in the shopping cart for sure 10 times and then let it be each time after some research. Too much fiddling and testing, which I actually like to do and is totally my thing. Unfortunately, I lack the time that I would have to invest for it.

Nevertheless, it does not go out of my head and annoys me again and again.

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Haha so the posts so far reflect so brilliantly why I raised this in the first place. 

So I couldn't help putting "like" on all of them. From what I gather newer models are addressing some of the early stage problems. 

It seems this is something that would fit nicely into testing our patiance as first batch EUCs do. 😏 Some work better than others and can be modded to the users liking. 

Please keep inputs coming :popcorn:

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@Unventor, now is a great time to get involved in 3D printing as there so many options out there, lots of content and big communities.

I have been using 3D printers for a couple of years now. First started with a cheap Geeetech printer before moving on to the infamous Ender3, I have now extensively upgraded that printer over the years. It is a very capable, very cheap machine to start with. You should be able to print straight from the box after an hour of assembly as it comes mostly built. I am not sure this is the best budget printer now though as there a lot of new printers that hit the market. I would suggest joining the 3D printing discord server https://discord.gg/fKWjR5T. It may seem intimating but there a massive amount of resource there and community is incredibly helpful with dedicated help channels and active members. 

If you are looking for a budget printer then the Ender3 and similar designs would be cheap and easy entry into the hobby, little assemble and should work straight from the box to get printing without any mods or hacks. Just be prepared to learn how the machine works (really simple when you get your head around it) and then the slicer, this is the program that takes your models and splits it into multiple layers that the printer can interpret and use. 
If you are looking for less hassle and more consumer friendly, I would recommend the Prusa printers, the new offering, the mini is very simplistic but just as capable as any other hobby grade machine, it has been designed to be a workhorse. Prusa also has incredible customer service and the quality of all they machines is much better then any of the Chinese budget printers since they are produced in Europe. 

Shanes comment are reflective of the hobby for anyone new coming into it especially if you decide to go for the cheapest budget offerings (they great for they own reasons where it makes it accessible to more people) But I hope his comments do not put you off. Yes, the hobby can really eat into your time and yes, these machines do at times require some troubleshooting and maintenance from time to time.
 

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14 minutes ago, NickNonsense said:

now is a great time to get involved in 3D printing as there so many options out there, lots of content and big communities.

It seems to me the situation have stalled since a few years, with the ender 3 and Prusa still being the references. I have built a few printers some years back and reviewing the market recently there didn’t seem to be much better tech. Maybe I didn’t look well enough, I’d be keen on to know what valuable improvement have may have appeared.

The community is surely alive and well, plenty of stuff to hobby with.

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19 minutes ago, null said:

It seems to me the situation have stalled since a few years, with the ender 3 and Prusa still being the references. I have built a few printers some years back and reviewing the market recently there didn’t seem to be much better tech. Maybe I didn’t look well enough, I’d be keen on to know what valuable improvement have may have appeared.

The community is surely alive and well, plenty of stuff to hobby with.

I havent noticed much new. Recently silent steppers and boards have become more common. Of course, the newest thing is steppers that dont require stop switches, as their controllers are capable of recognizing current draw. Same standard firmware on most mahcines (marlin variants). It really is a simple device, so theres not really that much to improve on. I think direct drive replacements are getting easier to rely on. Theres also a few new hot ends. Still, its just a heater, a nozzle, some steppers and a basic controller. Good news is that even the 'newer' tech, is stupid cheap on a piece by piece basis. Upgrading to the best parts is such a small increase in an already stupid low cost, I'm building my next, or buying something like a used ender and gutting it. 3d printing def reminds me of radio control or model car building. Some has changed, but its still basically the same shit. To be fair, im a bit ocd and a perfectionist. My incessant tweaking is probably more than required. My latest has been weeks of printing and perfecting tiny and cute mten stands. The catch is they have to be able to hold a 150lb man on the pedals jumping too. Days and days of tweaking that winds up in success in damn near invaluable, so it's all worth in to me. it began as 3d printing, moved to learning some autocad and moved to graphics for shirt... progression ftw. Hard drugs cost more and dont last as long anyhow. B)

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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17 minutes ago, null said:

It seems to me the situation have stalled since a few years, with the ender 3 and Prusa still being the references. I have built a few printers some years back and reviewing the market recently there didn’t seem to be much better tech. Maybe I didn’t look well enough, I’d be keen on to know what valuable improvement have may have appeared.

The community is surely alive and well, plenty of stuff to hobby with.

That is a fair critique. It has not jumped in any major significance with relation to methodologies or hardware. Although we are seeing low budget printers hitting the market with today’s more modern, now standardized features such as 32bit boards, ABL, silent steppers etc. Your typically upgrades that most would look to do after the initial introduction into the hobby. I think we are beginning to transition over from the I3 designs to the more desirable coreXY too which is a great move. Other than that, I was referencing from the extensive content on 3Dprinting and community out there, there a lot of help and resources to look at now.

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True, we see more 32bit which is nice, and I’m always keen on some coreXY due to the elegance of the concept and smaller footprint.

I also have hopes for integrated / compact extruder / hotends like the half recent e3d.

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I have Prusa MK3S+ and it works well - but that doesn't mean that it's something I would let my mum anywhere nearby. :D It definitely is a useful thing to have, but it can get expensive quite quickly if you print something larger and it fails after few hours, and it happens a few times before you figure out why it is happening. But it definitely allows you to make things that wouldn't be feasible to do in home conditions otherwise.

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48 minutes ago, Zopper said:

I have Prusa MK3S+ and it works well - but that doesn't mean that it's something I would let my mum anywhere nearby. :D It definitely is a useful thing to have, but it can get expensive quite quickly if you print something larger and it fails after few hours, and it happens a few times before you figure out why it is happening. But it definitely allows you to make things that wouldn't be feasible to do in home conditions otherwise.

That too. I JUST had a print fail after 13hrs at about 1/2 roll. Restarted and it got thru an other entire roll (24hrs) but final product wasnt useable AND cost me a glass bed. Basically, $60 in losses and 2 days, to find my idea was a lose situation. Buying filaments is like buying candy tho, I do enjoy it. Even the tiniest glitch for just a moment can be enough for failure. Makes it even better when something works tho. Filament break sensor and FW that allows change mid print is a must imho.

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My first printer was a Makergear M2, and I've put thousands of hours on it with very few problems. Has not degraded one bit over the years. Find a used one. I bought a second used one and keep in the box as a spare, I love it that much. I also bought a Creality CR10S 400x400. Despite the online community and praise - the Creality is a POS. The glass was very warped. The heated bed was made for the 300x300, and barely got to 50 degrees. The firmware was set to the smaller size. The belts broke, one of the steppers died. The power supply died. All the fans went out. The motherboard died. I've been replacing everything trying to build something reliable, and for awhile it was very reliable and the prints were on par with the M2... but now it won't heat over 230 degrees, likely a blown cap on the motherboard. Again. And the Creality people are about as helpful as the Aliexpress people. I would tell you to get an Ender 3 and some Swiss-Micro mods... but I personally would never support Creality again. Go for a Prussa, or find the Makergear M2 used (new they are $2k).

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My Ender 3 has been a great machine, but I wouldn't breath the words "user-friendly" anywhere near it. In the past two years I've had to replace the whole hot end three times now, the PSU fan, the parts fan, and gone through 3 glass beds. Not work I mind doing since I learned a lot about the printer by doing it, but know what you're getting into.

Actually 3d printing is also a lot of experimentation and tweaking--each material has wildly different properties that can complicate printing. Even with the same material, each manufacturer can require significantly different settings to get a good print.

If you're the type of person that doesn't mind tinkering I think it's a fun and useful hobby. Between all the OW accessories, EUC stands, EUC pads I've printed it's "paid" for itself, but there was a significant amount of time sunk into 3d printing to get there.

My suggestion for the couple of friends looking to get into the hobby was an ender 3 v2 to test the waters. I've eyeballed the prusa myself, but I'm still satisfied with the quality of print coming out of my Ender 3.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Unventor I missed this thread. So? ... Have you bought one yet?  If not I would suggest the Name brand Prusa ( not the mini or a clone). Or the ender 3. The prusa is more of a finished product while the Ender 3 is more of a learning tool that can be Endlessly  updated. The Ender 5 is a bit of a disappointment because the table is so weak. The Ender 5 plus is awesome with a few upgrades. The Ender 5 plus has two Z screws making the table very secure. Enders are quickly and easily upgraded. 

The CR10 is good too. They improved the hotends. ........And I would rather just build my own V6 hotend for it. 

Most printers are marginal and work great as long as you stay within the margins. One of the biggest problems is cooling the hotend. ( not the print ) The fans are cheap and anything can keep them from spinning full speed. The fan gets behind and the nozzle clogs. Keep the hot end hot and the heat sync cool and you will save yourself a lot of trouble. ( buy good fans and keep them clean ..... or use bigger fans.) 
 

Edited by RockyTop
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28 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

@Unventor I missed this thread. So? ... Have you bought one yet?  If not I would suggest the Name brand Prusa ( not the mini or a clone). Or the ender 3. The prusa is more of a finished product while the Ender 3 is more of a learning tool that can be Endlessly  updated. The Ender 5 is a bit of a disappointment because the table is so weak. The Ender 5 plus is awesome with a few upgrades. The Ender 5 plus has two Z screws making the table very secure. Enders are quickly and easily upgraded. 

The CR10 is good too. They improved the hotends. ........And I would rather just build my own V6 hotend for it. 

Most printers are marginal and work great as long as you stay within the margins. One of the biggest problems is cooling the hotend. ( not the print ) The fans are cheap and anything can keep them from spinning full speed. The fan gets behind and the nozzle clogs. Keep the hot end hot and the heat sync cool and you will save yourself a lot of trouble. ( buy good fans and keep them clean ..... or use bigger fans.) 
 

I didnt notice any upgrade to the hot end on the cr10. I tried a microswiss and e3d gold all metal and it was worse tho. Wanna buy an all metal gold edition e3d hot end? Ironically, I run very little fan on most all of my prints. Half the fun is the journey and results are results. Good to know that Prusa is more a goto for when you want results w/o the excessive fiddling. Is prusa also bold faced liars about their product? Hows the customer service? Even a response at all is an improvement over the creality (on your own) machines.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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Thanks for the advice @RockyTopand no I have not bought anything (3d printer) yet. I have been looking at an Ender 6. But this is still early stage and I have to do more research. Works is busy so right now I am looking more into this later but still collecting info. 😁 It took me 4 months before I purchased my first EUC. 1st upgrade 3 months later. 5 wheels within 2.5 years.

The first one is the hardest. 😉

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@ShanesPlanet Your CR10 should have a red rounded heat sync. ??? The standard Ender has a very cheap looking Aluminum heat sync. They work OK unless the heat sync fan gets weak. I converted mine over to a V6 hotend with a 4020 fan. The print fan on the original Ender 3 setup is kinda redundant because the sync fan blows on the print. 
 Once you get the cooling fixed an all metal hotend works fine. On the plus side you can run hotter and not melt or wear out the Bowden tube. On the negative side you will have more friction that will cause more trouble on a marginal setup. 

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33 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Thanks for the advice @RockyTopand no I have not bought anything (3d printer) yet. I have been looking at an Ender 6. But this is still early stage and I have to do more research. Works is busy so right now I am looking more into this later but still collecting info. 😁 It took me 4 months before I purchased my first EUC. 1st upgrade 3 months later. 5 wheels within 2.5 years.

The first one is the hardest. 😉

Well they can be a pain ...... but they can also be very useful and rewarding. Not good for people with a short fuse that like to smash things. The last printer that I bought used, suffered a little abuse. 

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31 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

@ShanesPlanet Your CR10 should have a red rounded heat sync. ??? The standard Ender has a very cheap looking Aluminum heat sync. They work OK unless the heat sync fan gets weak. I converted mine over to a V6 hotend with a 4020 fan. The print fan on the original Ender 3 setup is kinda redundant because the sync fan blows on the print. 
 Once you get the cooling fixed an all metal hotend works fine. On the plus side you can run hotter and not melt or wear out the Bowden tube. On the negative side you will have more friction that will cause more trouble on a marginal setup. 

My cr10 v3 I preordered, came with the same $20 hot end setup as the previous version. Cheap Aluminum with NOT all metal hot end as they claimed. They changed the plate where it all mounts, to accomodate a titan direct drive. Fan, hot end,, shroud=$20 whole thing. Its because of the change for the direct drive, that the other hotends werent a good fit. I screwed with it for a long time and it just didnt seem to help. As it is, I run petg perfectly fine as I use a brand that does marvelous at a mere 240C.  To tackle hotter jobs, I'd buy a different brand altogether. Im more than a little pissed creality is lying outright. After rebuilding the damn thihng and tweaking it for 6 mos, I am finally getting decent results.

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Interesting. I just looked up your printer combo......  Not bad really. Although I understand your frustration. The direct drive solves a lot of problems and makes things easier. I just wish that they came with a V6 hotend. 

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41 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Interesting. I just looked up your printer combo......  Not bad really. Although I understand your frustration. The direct drive solves a lot of problems and makes things easier. I just wish that they came with a V6 hotend. 

I couldnt fathom NOT having direct drive. Im a tpu and soft filament enthusiast. Hell, I got about 17 colors of tpu and they all print just fine. I see my 3d printer as one of those things.. you spend forever getting it dialed in, then you pray to the printer gods that you neednt replace or change ANYTHING. Its like a house of damn cards for sure.

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