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Raz's Monster Pro battery fire


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Location: Poland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa79go_aUfc
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1115649585491136/permalink/1554534158269341/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/MonocykleElektrycznePOLSKA/permalink/3274954719272179/

Reported information:

  • Non-production EUC (demo)
  • Total mileage:   ~150mi
  • Battery:   4x 900wh packs, each 24s2p LG M50T, with unknown history (not newly produced)
  • When did the fire occur?:   During transport inside a passenger car.
  • When was the EUC previously used?:   ~15 minutes earlier, with aggressive acceleration and braking. Cold weather; wet roads.
  • The cells nearest the control board were the most severely damaged.
  • Smoke odor reported ~5 minutes prior to fire.
     

ACtC-3fhxE2BuIvjRJvu-hF96c2eWclmbaEtfhbGcZeoMUxuI7wkCZE54g-28jGAJzZZBBcIfVpbJJnLqqxpZwCgf2015DT4TQscAMNzIpLB2NgOwdhFGPBjVOztox2tWieuYYtCrswncTdgTHbxtnS80Ej1Qw=w563-h941-no?authuser=0

Edited by RagingGrandpa
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effing batteries..

Looks like he got it out quickly, or there would have been more melted plastic.
Hope we get to the reason for this (as well as the previous recent fire).

Edited by null
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1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Perhaps someone can translate?

 

Unfortunately I can't help with translation... If this is a pre-production Monster Pro it could be possible that this in another case of the wheel shorting out because of improper cleaning procedures after completing the soldering on the control board. That's why the NYC Monster Pro blew it's board. It's likely a little metal shaving caused an arc on the board. This seems to be a worst case scenario.... 

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  • RagingGrandpa changed the title to Raz's Monster Pro battery fire

I remember watching Kuji Rolls charging a wheel in a steel safe in one of his vids & laughing a loud at that. Now I know why😮

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7 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

may have been highly unbalanced. Adding to that high speed tests and low temperature

Sure- if the packs were 'fighting eachother' during high-discharge usage, they'll run hotter...

It makes me unsure of the initial cause of the fire- were the cells slowly cooking themselves up to runaway temperature over a 20 minute period... or did shorting outside the pack put a huge load on the already-warm cells...

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3 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

It makes me unsure of the initial cause of the fire- were the cells slowly cooking themselves up to runaway temperature over a 20 minute period... or did shorting outside the pack put a huge load on the already-warm cells...

It will be difficult to find the what was the real cause, but it seems to be more "cooking" scenario in my opinion.  

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While I understand & agree with the need for more safety features to be built in, aren't these Mpros' pre-production units? If @Lukasz info on the polish test unit Mpro having an unknown history (whatever that means) is correct, then one unit burn up due to faulty batteries of "unknown" origin & the NYC's unit's mobo had a fit. 

Hmmm didn't the much hailed Veteran Sherman (again pre-production unit) also failed Marty's stress hill test & also burnt a mobo? Looked far worse than the NY unit on Marty's take apart vid. In short, its best if we reserve judgement til some concrete comes out. IMO ofcos

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4 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

While I understand & agree with the need for more safety features to be built in, aren't these Mpros' pre-production units?

You're kidding yourself if you think there's much difference between "pre-production" and production; that term is just what western forum riders call it.

If it has all the trimmings and is being sent out for demo, it's pretty much production, no company has ever drastically changed things from this phase, especially not costly things like the mold or the motor manufacture so late in the game, only minor firmware tweaks and peripheral stuff.

 

4 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

Hmmm didn't the much hailed Veteran Sherman (again pre-production unit) also failed Marty's stress hill test & also burnt a mobo? Looked far worse than the NY unit on Marty's take apart vid. In short, its best if we reserve judgement til some concrete comes out. IMO ofcos

Vet case was easily explainable (overamp with wires not enough gauge, not enough overamp protection, etc), while these 24Pro cases are not so much AFAICS.

It's amusing to me that guys are still treating this like the old Gotway, pre-Veteran, ie. before all the talent jumped ship, food for thought. 🤨

Edited by houseofjob
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25 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

You're kidding yourself if you think there's much difference between "pre-production" and production; that term is just what western forum riders call it.

If it has all the trimmings and is being sent out for demo, it's pretty much production, no company has ever drastically changed things from this phase, especially not costly things like the mold or the motor manufacture so late in the game, only minor firmware tweaks and peripheral stuff.

 

Vet case was easily explainable (overamp with wires not enough gauge, not enough overamp protection, etc), while these 24Pro cases are not so much AFAICS.

Fair 'nuff. I fully admit I'm far from being knowledgeable on these matters. I've no skin in the game as I don't own an Mpro nor do I have it on order or even have any intentions of ownership. RS or even EX, maybe but Mpro, for sure not. Polish incident aside, I'm just curious why one incident is being excused & forgiven while another similar incident (superficially at least) is being deemed as the 3mile island meltdown.  

Not questioning anyone here but just being a curious george as all. Do we know conclusively what happened to the NYC unit?

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Modern no-lead solder also has a tendency to develop microcracks due to its composition. It bothered me back when the push to remove lead from electronics was starting because the reduced reliability of the lead free solders was so well understood that medical devices and military equipment were exempted from the requirements for many many years. We were knowingly and purposely mandating the production of inherently less reliable product (and more e-trash) to cut 1/10th of 1% of the industrial lead from the waste stream. Lead is bad stuff without a doubt, but it seemed like the downsides weren’t factored in.

This is an operating environment where fairly high-g vibration and impact are always present. I would like to think that the designers prioritize these factors but do expect that economics carry a good deal of weight.

Of course we must remember that EUC designs are far from mature so we get to pay the early adopters tax. It’s what we get for having so much fun.

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3 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Me too. Its all I will use. Getting bloody expensive though.

I would have to disagree that ALL of them have been shite. The Z10 had excellent cable managment, routing and stress protection. Not to mention properly encased battery packs, rigourous case construction and decent, ample fasteners. Oh and proper waterproofing. The thing is built like a tank, presumably because the engineers (I dont use that word lightly, but they clearly were, unlike most of the muppets involved in other wheels) designed it to have the best chance of staying together at the crash speeds it is capable of, and not vibrate itself to bits like an old 500cc 2 stroke motocrosser.

And they did that years ago.

So yes, I agree that the current crop of manufacturers need a lot of education in terms of build quality (Gotway being the worst) but its not like we havent seen properly constructed wheels before.

Apologies, I stand corrected. I should know better than make any absolutes in statements, as I am too ignorant to make such bold claims. Amazing how old tech gets 'upgraded' isnt it? :)   Cardas Quad ftw!!

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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3 hours ago, Planemo said:

The Z10 <was good>

... but despite all its design rigor, the community declared it to have terrible reliability :(:(

  

10 hours ago, houseofjob said:

the NYC case, I really cannot explain

An explanation was offered: metal debris inside the shell dislodged by (riding) causing shorting of the control board. Sounded plausible, anyway.

Edited by RagingGrandpa
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11 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

... but despite all its design rigor, the community declared it to have terrible reliability :(:(

Very sad case of "large company doesn't care to follow up", where as GW, with all their design approximations, manage to get a stable product by adjusting over time..

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1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said:

An explanation was offered: metal debris inside the shell dislodged by (riding) causing shorting of the control board. Sounded plausible, anyway.

LOL wow, sounds like a wheel I'm dying to buy :lol::lol::lol:

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8 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

LOL wow, sounds like a wheel I'm dying to buy :lol::lol::lol:

Can't wait for the EcoDrift disassembly pictures of the Monster Pro. I hope it's better than the EX...

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well at least Begode knows about it, Their response copied as a comment on the two fires:

"Regarding this matter, we cannot find out the exact cause of the accident. We also attach great importance to this matter. The technical department has done in-depth research and discussion on this incident. The cause of burning is multi-layered, and there are problems with the product itself, as well as problems during use. But we can only look for potential defects from ourselves, improve our quality control, optimize software, etc. We are sorry to cause you worry and trouble. We believe these are temporary problems. We will not be timid and give up because of the current difficulties. We are already working hard on the road to solving difficulties..."

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