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Does Veteran have a tire problem? Tire off the rim?


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As of this week my old Kingsong 14" tire needs to be remounted for the same shitty rim reason. It's an old problem being brought to light on new EUCs due to higher speed. Somehow, many of us need rim-jobs. :huh:

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If the range of reasonable tire pressures don’t satisfy you, you will just have to remedy the issues that come up with extremely low pressures. I heard that the Russian approach to winter riding is to

I agree, I cant see how a tube change will make any difference to this problem whatsoever. The tube will always inflate as big as the inside of the tyre so the problem will remain. If anything, a smal

Without ever even seeing the Sherman, my guess is that the outer diameter of the rim isn’t the issue here. When the tire bead bulges out from the rim, the issue is most likely that the exact oppo

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On 1/18/2021 at 6:19 AM, Daley1 said:

My Sherman would vibrate mercilessly at around 35kmh to 40 kmh.I could not ride it any faster and stay on. Re-centreing the wheel the problem was instantly fixed!.Straight up to 60kmh without vibrations.

There seems to be a suggestion that perhaps riding with low PSI is the issue.  What PSI do you ride at?  Just want to have more data point here as we try to figure this shit out.  

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It's clear that the rim bead/tire size is an issue. This would affect the wobbles at high speeds that many are reporting.  In terms of wobbles at high speeds, I had this issue with my KS 18xl after getting a flat.  I checked the tube, had no punctures, reinflated, and the tube retained it's tire pressure so it was a phantom flat.  But then I started to get wobbles at high speed.  I knew it wasn't my lack of experience since I knew my wheel very well.  After much testing I noticed that calibrating the KS 18XL resolved the issue.

I wonder if many here are properly calibrating the Sherman after tire adjustments and if this at all is contributing to the wobbles at high speeds.  I personally didn't know how much calibrating would affect wheel balancing/alignment.

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4 hours ago, Key said:

Latest ewheels update about new rim:

Part of the inspection process will be making sure this wider rim fits the knobby tire better. In our limited testing there has been some rubbing with the Kenda K262 with the updated rim, which was part of this holdup. We may need to revert to the original rim for the knobby tire if this isn't resolved, while the Kenda K340A street tire behaves well with the new rim. If there are problems here, we may split the Sherman order into half street, half knobby Shermans.

Soooo...new rim has issues with knobby tire while road tire works better with new rim.  The saga continues.  

 

I hope future EUC designs are made where the motor and the rim can detach vs needing to take the motor apart. 

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Tyre pressures for me vary.I pumped the Sherman up to 35psi initially because i ride the Ks16s at 40psi on a tyre that 2.25 in.Tried the 3 inch Sherman tyre on 35psi but the pressure way to hard and "twitchy"".I played with the Sherman pressures to fix the "wobbles"but it wasnt the pressure or my riding ability.Centreing the tyre was like a magic fix. Some tyres are just not seated properly!

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think the most of the issues reported here with tires are because of the riding with too low pressure. 
I have Sherman for couple of months. I rode for 700km and had tire issue twice. Not exactly the tire issue, but the teared off valve issue.
Other forum member also reported the same issue:

 

Mister Flex also had the valve issue (16:30).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eBv0qk-xhc

With enduro motorcycles it is very frequent issue to tear off the valve.
Tire starts slipping and spinning on the rim because of too low pressure and high torque. As a result, the valve gets cut off from the tube.

I made the conclusion for myself, that I must ride with 35psi pressure. Exactly 35psi ant not lower.
I made couple of hundreds km since the last tube change and had no issues. Hopefully it stays that way.

The valve issue may look like tire coming of the rim issue during the ride. Because of the suddenly lost pressure the tire immediately becomes loose. However during my last fall I clearly heard the air coming out just before my crash.

We must ride the Sherman with 35psi tire pressure. I know it is not comfortable in the offroad, too bumpy. Also knobby tire feels less stable on the pavement with high pressure.  However I do not see any other way to fix the issue of teared off valves. 
 

Screen Shot 2021-03-18 at 10.15.05 AM.jpg

Edited by Kva
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Or stick the tube in place with tire bead sealant so it doesn't spin yet still pulls free during a tube change.

Since the rims don't have a lip to hold the tire in the correct place we should be using bead sealant there too.

 

 

tire bead sealant.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/27/2021 at 1:12 AM, Key said:

There seems to be a suggestion that perhaps riding with low PSI is the issue.  What PSI do you ride at?  Just want to have more data point here as we try to figure this shit out.  

That is obvious, not a "suggestion".
Problem is that if You ride the Sherm on recomended pressured or slightly below, the frekkin tyre comes off and tube gets fucked and You fall.
On ANY other wheel You can ride on a "soft tyre" (aka low pressure) witohut the whole frekking tyre coming off.

VETERAN designers made a MAJOR MISTAKE designing the rim (or choosing the tyre)  as the tyre comes of the rim as soon as pressure is a bit on the low side.
On a 75km/h Vehicle there is NO EXCUSE for such a design and its just a matter of time until someone dies and Sue Veterans socks off!

I am amazed they have not fixed the issue yet. Sure they are protected by Chinese gov, but the problem China have with US and EU in several matters (like 5G, Huawei and more) I would reccon the gov would push them to rectify their mistake before they get even more pressure up their ass ;()

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On 3/18/2021 at 5:42 PM, WI_Hedgehog said:

Or stick the tube in place with tire bead sealant so it doesn't spin yet still pulls free during a tube change.

Since the rims don't have a lip to hold the tire in the correct place we should be using bead sealant there too.

 

 

tire bead sealant.jpg

Someone sells You a car that catches fire if You drive it past 50km/h.

Solution, buy a fire extinguisher?

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On 3/18/2021 at 9:41 AM, Kva said:

i think the most of the issues reported here with tires are because of the riding with too low pressure. 

the problem is very well known and it's not psi related 101 % , it's about rim size.

some tires amplify it, some don't

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On 3/18/2021 at 9:41 AM, Kva said:

I think the most of the issues reported here with tires are because of the riding with too low pressure. 
I have Sherman for couple of months. I rode for 700km and had tire issue twice. Not exactly the tire issue, but the teared off valve issue.
Other forum member also reported the same issue:

 

Mister Flex also had the valve issue (16:30).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eBv0qk-xhc

With enduro motorcycles it is very frequent issue to tear off the valve.
Tire starts slipping and spinning on the rim because of too low pressure and high torque. As a result, the valve gets cut off from the tube.

I made the conclusion for myself, that I must ride with 35psi pressure. Exactly 35psi ant not lower.
I made couple of hundreds km since the last tube change and had no issues. Hopefully it stays that way.

The valve issue may look like tire coming of the rim issue during the ride. Because of the suddenly lost pressure the tire immediately becomes loose. However during my last fall I clearly heard the air coming out just before my crash.

We must ride the Sherman with 35psi tire pressure. I know it is not comfortable in the offroad, too bumpy. Also knobby tire feels less stable on the pavement with high pressure.  However I do not see any other way to fix the issue of teared off valves. 
 


 

Quit the excuses for Veteran allready :)
What happens when You fall around 70km/h and you are NOT READY (like a cutoff without beeps) +  add no steering sidways?
Lets take a look at an OLD CLIP of a GW Tesla (real top speed for sure not above 50 - I have tested it - stated speed in video is free spin = false)
Fast forward to around 2:15 for a cutout that I would estimate happens around 45-50km/h (rider is not super light and going first uphill then sudden change of inertia downhill and we cant say if batt level is full. When full 49-50km/h is cutoff for me weighing 95KG and this rider bout the same weight - shorter but fatter  - Sorry Ron, just stating facts :)). Luckily he was wearing a helmet or it would be brain matter all over the pavement.

On a side note:
The Tesla for SURE hold up on a lot of bangs - BUT make sure to open it up and check all wiring and seal them off with electric tap and zip ties before riding - those chinese (Gotway begode) guys dunno shit about short circuits and high voltage DC (trust me - being an electrical engineer).

+ I can confirm - the beep is not heard well at 40+ km/h - wear at least one bud conneced to EUC world if you decide to diable tiltback, do it regardless and set the limits as battery level matters. Havent had a crash since EUC world introduced leveled beeps as i wear ONE of my trusty Samung pods to ACTUALLY hear a warning, played over the music i listen to when i ride in that ear. The other ear i use to listen to the traffic - allways keep ONE ear clear for road noise and things coming from behind - it might save Your life from a drunk driver or whatnot.

 

Edited by Boogieman
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55 minutes ago, Boogieman said:

Someone sells You a car that catches fire if You drive it past 50km/h.

Solution, buy a fire extinguisher?

Don't drive faster than 50kmh?

I get you tho for sure. I won't make excuses for ANY of these companies. I find it horrid to hear about this tire issue, but I really cant go into full on as*hole mode about it. Mine hasnt suffered the tire problem. (I have already bitched about charger quality and initial fw pedal dip). If my tire does fail and I survive it, I'll become the broken record a lot are used to hearing from me. What startles me more than anything, is that information is always a trickle and its just a guessing game most times.  To be honest, I have been actively trying to not wonder about what all is suspect on these wheels. I have a reasonable amount of faith that its only a matter of time before something mechanical fails and injures me. Its against my nature to just suck it up and not look into potential failure, but if i want to ride at all, its just what I have to do. If i had a car or motorcycle that forced me to view it the same way, I'd probably enter it into a demo derby and sleep well at night afterwards. I have learned that a proper 'pretrip inspection' on an euc, may only end in me not going for a ride.

I'll keep monitoring mine. I only ride at 25psi and less. I REFUSE to be forced to ride at an uncomfortable pressure, just to mitigate poor manufacturing. Tires and rims seating edges have been around for decades. It is not asking too much to be able to run a tube/tire at a wide range of reasonable pressures. The day after my sherman fails due to a serious build flaw, I will become an even more hated individual. For now tho, mine has been fine so I can't bitch...much. Its hard to be proactive and know what/if anything should be done. Catch 22...  you dont know if its gna fail until after it does....

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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14 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

1. Don't drive faster than 50kmh?

2. The day after my sherman fails due to a serious build flaw, I will become a VERY hated individual.

1. I would "even take it as far as" - dont buy the car and sue the seller for attempted murder :) (well - if I lived in US I would - luckily I dont so no use here in Sweden)
2. ??? You wouldnt be hated on forums for speaking the truth - maybe the Chinese would hate You cause their sales nrs would plummet....but....who cares? As long as You save lives right? And on top - FORCE those guys into making a SAFE wheel, not using us as test dummies AND ON TOP charging us up the ass for it (wheel profit) ;) 

Sorry Im bitchy bout this - had a few falls due to punctures and know it sucks. Having those due to built in flaws, not my own fauly, that would make me fairly FURIOUS! Love the Sherm otherwise - but NO WAY I am buying a flawed rim EUC. I wait...or buy something else if it takes too long

Edited by Boogieman
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19 minutes ago, Boogieman said:

1. I would "even take it as far as" - dont buy the car and sue the seller for attempted murder :) (well - if I lived in US I would - luckily I dont so no use here in Sweden)
2. ??? You wouldnt be hated on forums for speaking the truth - maybe the Chinese would hate You cause their sales nrs would plummet....but....who cares? As long as You save lives right? And on top - FORCE those guys into making a SAFE wheel, not using us as test dummies AND ON TOP charging us up the ass for it (wheel profit) ;) 

Sorry Im bitchy bout this - had a few falls due to punctures and know it sucks. Having those due to built in flaws, not my own fauly, that would make me fairly FURIOUS! Love the Sherm otherwise - but NO WAY I am buying a flawed rim EUC. I wait...or buy something else if it takes too long

Buyer beware and lawyers are VERY expensive. You can sue anyone for anything in USA, but you rarely win. Of course, there's always dumbasses who hurt themselves and get rich, so... do ya feel lucky?

For now, I can't say that the sherman has a 'flawed rim' in general. It could possibly be tolerance rather than design flaw. Im sure there has been flaws, but if we hold the euc to a VERY high standard, we have nothing to ride. I fought this internal struggle for the first yr I began riding. I just couldnt wrap my head around how the quality of my euc is considered 'great'. After ranting and being pissed for so long, I finally had to regroup my grading curve. It totally sucks that a person has to be this way, but if you want to ride at all...

If you wait for a wheel that is made to great quality and doesnt have any potential issue due to tolerance/build, you won't have ANY wheels to choose from. Even now, I still cant quite wrap my brain around the way these are being manufactured. If competition among companies is a REAL thing, it baffles me that we havent seen ANY Chinese euc company release a wheel that is OBVIOUSLY superior in build and detail. Its almost like the competition is who can remix the same ideas but not bother stepping up the QC. Its not a race to the bottom, but it sure seems like noone is even bothering to slam it into top gear and show the rest how it can be done..

I wonder how the Korean euc company is coming along? I'd really like to see what that chap in Kansas came up with as well. All else aside, it would be refreshing to see an euc that looks like a polished machine of quality. If I was a little more educated, had some friends in manufacturing and had some extra $$, I'd love to try and be part of a build myself...

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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18 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Buyer beware and lawyers are VERY expensive. You can sue anyone for anything in USA, but you rarely win. Of course, there's always dumbasses who hurt themselves and get rich, so... do ya feel lucky?

For now, I can't say that the sherman has a 'flawed rim' in general. It could possibly be tolerance rather than design flaw. Im sure there has been flaws, but if we hold the euc to a VERY high standard, we have nothing to ride. I fought this internal struggle for the first yr I began riding. I just couldnt wrap my head around how the quality of my euc is considered 'great'. After ranting and being pissed for so long, I finally had to regroup my grading curve. It totally sucks that a person has to be this way, but if you want to ride at all...

If you wait for a wheel that is made to great quality and doesnt have any potential issue due to tolerance, you won't have ANY wheels to choose from. Even now, I still cant quite wrap my brain around the way these are being manufactured. If competition among companies is a REAL thing, it baffles me that we havent seen ANY Chinese euc company release a wheel that is OBVIOUSLY superior in build and detail. Its almost like the competition is who can remix the same ideas but not bother stepping up the QC. Its not a race to the bottom, but it sure seems like noone is even bothering to slam it into top gear and show the rest how it can be done..

I hear You...and i "kinda" agree.
When I got my Tesla and opened it up the first time like 3-4 years ago i was like WWWWWTTTTFFFF :S

- Fixed cable routing.
- Strapped up the flimsy silicone tubes (not) "preventing" a short of the motor cables (sliding EASY out of position with a slightest of push).
- Inserted helicoils for ALL screw holes to make use of M thread mechanical screws
- Added some 15-20 degrees on pedal angle to prevent "hugging" every rock and root off road
- Added some toxic green flourescent and silver paint to make it look less "boring" - and be seen

- Added extra front and tail lights (flashing kind for bicycles) for night rides
- Working on UV light for the "green chassis" in plexi glass holders - will hopefully look neat night time and make the vehicle more "visible" for cars and whatnot

Now...Im just worried bout things i cant "fix" - like batteries, so I will sell (or scrap or keep in a safe place) my Tesla
But I can not "fix" a fault rim diameter, except checking tyre pressure EACH TIME i am going for a ride.

Which brings me to a question - can You fit ONE OF THEESE on a Sherman (have a friend with a Sherm so can try it with my car ones - but have forgotten it)
Below is just an example - not a safe buying place or comercial - just o show my idea.
I have them on my car but with a panel - i was thinking bout getting the ones with BT connection to the phone so they can alarm to my buds if pressure is too low. I KNOW - this is the "buying the fire exstinguisher method" - but I need a new ride. Though I will wait for sherm v2 with new rim i stil am keen to know if they fit so i can order a pair at the same time - would save me a lot of bruises i am sure :)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33036416389.html
or
https://www.wish.com/product/5f1f90df6dbcc91ea98c13df?hide_login_modal=true&from_ad=goog_shopping&_display_country_code=SE&_force_currency_code=SEK&pid=googleadwords_int&c={campaignId}&ad_cid=5f1f90df6dbcc91ea98c13df&ad_cc=SE&ad_lang=EN&ad_curr=SEK&ad_price=135.00&campaign_id=9527731155&exclude_install=true&gclid=CjwKCAjwr_uCBhAFEiwAX8YJgaLN1fiwyYZVWI78iPvQk90vB7O9pzO48fstmDwAJ6Q1ss18JQdOvBoC6tgQAvD_BwE&share=web

Edited by Boogieman
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Lets see when Tesla makes a EUC  - thats probably the time when it gets SAFE and POPULAR in common community :)
And the RANGE :D and POWER :D with built in self driving and google assistant?

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I wonder if the original wheel can have fabrication made to make it safer? Like adding a lip? Mechanical fastening the tire? 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/18/2021 at 10:55 AM, mrelwood said:

I don’t think it’s a design defect s as much as a design decision. The tire and tube are designed to be held in place by pressure alone, and 20psi is a lot below the recommended minimum of any tire.

Worth remembering that the atmospheric pressure (the one we breathe, and which pushes against our eyes) is 15psi. I don’t think 20psi is enough to hold the tires in place on an EUC. I would only go below 30psi with a light and calm rider, and wouldn’t go below 25psi under any circumstances.

To prevent misunderstandings.

The pressure read on a gauge for a tire pump is not the absolute pressure, its the differentiating pressure between tyre pressure and atmospheric.

Basically meaning if it reads 25psi it's 25 psi+atmospheric pressure (if read/meassured with no atmospheric pressure, it would instead read around 40psi as normal atmospheric pressure is around 15 psi, see link for reference ).

This pressure (25psi) is also the pressure everyone States (i.e. on tyre wall), the pressure ABOVE atmospheric = the pressure that acts on the tube (which presses the tyre towards the rim).

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_pressure#:~:text=The standard atmosphere (symbol%3A atm,inches Hg%2C or 14.696 psi.

More on the subject

https://blog.wika.us/knowhow/what-is-gauge-pressure/#:~:text=Gauge pressure%2C also called overpressure,the weight of the atmosphere.

Edited by Boogieman
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A good addition for those who wonder about this. But it is indeed the difference to the atmospheric pressure that holds the tire in place, so that’s why we are generally only interested in that value. A tire with a pressure of [atmospheric + 0] doesn’t have any (air) pressure holding it against the rim.

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An update on the scraping situation of the wheel. I emailed Ewheels to place my order of the Sherman and they sent this:

"As for waterproofing and the rim design, the latest and and next batch feature a slightly wider rim for better tire stability, along with an upgraded waterproofed top panel. The motor hasn't been redesigned, but Veteran has updated the pedal hanger design so the tire does not scrape with this revised motor rim." 

I went ahead and placed my order. I think the Sherman is finally being refined to perfection, or close to it. 

 

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18 hours ago, EUC_Ali said:

An update on the scraping situation of the wheel. I emailed Ewheels to place my order of the Sherman and they sent this:

"As for waterproofing and the rim design, the latest and and next batch feature a slightly wider rim for better tire stability, along with an upgraded waterproofed top panel. The motor hasn't been redesigned, but Veteran has updated the pedal hanger design so the tire does not scrape with this revised motor rim." 

I went ahead and placed my order. I think the Sherman is finally being refined to perfection, or close to it. 

 

Having read this, I'm about to place my order also. I see the price increased also, so I guess veteran did so much r&d they needed to inflate the price (still might be worth it though)

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5 minutes ago, Rikachu said:

Having read this, I'm about to place my order also. I see the price increased also, so I guess veteran did so much r&d they needed to inflate the price (still might be worth it though)

The price increase is due to an increase in demand 

Ewheels stated in the Sherman description

  • Owing to higher battery cell costs, price increased to $3,199
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2 hours ago, EUC_Ali said:

The price increase is due to an increase in demand 

Ewheels stated in the Sherman description

  • Owing to higher battery cell costs, price increased to $3,199

That says its because battery prices went up.  It is not because demand for the sherman went up

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