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Does Veteran have a tire problem? Tire off the rim?


Finn Bjerke

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3 minutes ago, Mango said:

Just ride the wheel, the wobbles will go away with the miles. My Sherman wobbles were more pronounced than in this video. As long as it doesn’t affect the ride stability, it is not an issue.

Internet posts by a few individuals just amplifies issues. Its like living in a hospital, you think everyone is sick and dying.

I wish that was true. Fresh out of the box, my wheel had a slight hop to it. Ignored it. 200+ miles later, it got worse. Today, I did the classic deflate -> massage -> ride at low psi for a bit -> inflate and it worked wonders. For most wheels with this issue, you can't just ignore it.

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2 hours ago, rexdelmolvo said:

What methods did you use to acheive this? Just deflating, massaging, and riding on low PSI before a full fill? This is kind of a dramatic improvement!

Definitely do the first two, but don't ride with low psi before full fill, from experience that will make it worse. 

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On 1/17/2021 at 8:42 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

I run low pressure (20psi) and upping it to solve a design or build defect, is not my intentions.
 

I don’t think it’s a design defect s as much as a design decision. The tire and tube are designed to be held in place by pressure alone, and 20psi is a lot below the recommended minimum of any tire.

Worth remembering that the atmospheric pressure (the one we breathe, and which pushes against our eyes) is 15psi. I don’t think 20psi is enough to hold the tires in place on an EUC. I would only go below 30psi with a light and calm rider, and wouldn’t go below 25psi under any circumstances.

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11 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I don’t think it’s a design defect s as much as a design decision. The tire and tube are designed to be held in place by pressure alone, and 20psi is a lot below the recommended minimum of any tire.

Worth remembering that the atmospheric pressure (the one we breathe, and which pushes against our eyes) is 15psi. I don’t think 20psi is enough to hold the tires in place on an EUC. I would only go below 30psi with a light and calm rider, and wouldn’t go below 25psi under any circumstances.

Sounds right, but lord I hope not. Riding at 25psi+ is not my cup of tea in the comfort department. So its safe to assume that if this is by design, we should never see anyone with a tire shift issue, if they are a 35psi rider? Excluding gross defects of manufacture or tolerances of course..

Makes me wonder about the 'replacement' rims. Would these be undermining their design decisions, should the replacements actualy prove altered?

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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On 1/17/2021 at 12:26 PM, ShanesPlanet said:

I've found that wobbles are typically a rider induced issue at slower speeds. Not always, but usually that or road conditions. A slightly out of balance or round wheel would probably feel more like a bumpy ride. I had to reseat a tire on another 18L I had, as you could feel the cyclic vibration from it being offset a bit. As for wobbles, i typically get those from just being an idiot and a newbie. You should be able to discern an improper tire LONG before wobbles present themselves. I think you may just be planting a bad seed in your own mind, or at least worrying too soon. Of course the proof is in the pudding. If you feel a vibration and it turns into wobble, its obviously not a mental fixation issue ;)

You want to know how to stir up hate really quickly? Point out the faults you find in something and be quick to cuss it's quality. Make sure it something other people really hope is perfect. I got personally attacked about my weight and supposed drug use and intellect in the video I made about that wheel I sold as soon as I rode it. I guess somebody just didnt like my opinion. Funny, they removed the comments, once they realized my quick to judge opinions, were proved true by many others. SOmetimes a smart person can spot a turd w/o having to ponder for weeks about it. Odd, aint it?

Sorry @ShanesPlanet but the wobbles(vibrations) on the Sherman are not rider induced .These are definitely tyre induced.I have about 5k under my belt and had speed wobbles,breaking wobbles and tired leg wobbles early on.These are different to what we people call the wobbles.My Sherman would vibrate mercilessly at around 35kmh to 40 kmh.I could not ride it any faster and stay on. Re-centreing the wheel the problem was instantly fixed!.Straight up to 60kmh without vibrations.Unfortunately people think they are riding the wheel wrong or a bad rider ,but they reality is the poor tyre seating on this machine in a small number of machines.If mine didnt ride right after me mucking about with it ,i was going to send it back to the dealer.I,d put 400ks on it whilst riding low speed thinking i,m a crap rider .If u have purchased from a dealer and you have tried fixing it ,send it back under warranty!

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CST 1488 18x3 tire can be this tire used on sherman? 

Is posible CST "fix" this rim problem somebody try this?

Re-centreing the wheel i alredy make on my MSP with 1488 and help significantly but make it ideal i put 27grams moto weights to ballance rim perfectly.

Other rider what own MSX100V and sherman and try my MSP canot belive how "smooth" Euc ride can be. 

In my eyes is faut manufacturer and seller because both ignore user rider experience/safety to just dont care and let tire on EUC how manufacturer do and not "fix" or check for customer.

Is any disadvantage sherman original road tire VS CST 1488? 

 

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As @mrelwood pointed out the inner rim edges who are guiding the inner diameter of the tyre edges could leave too much room for moving around. Could this differ between motorcycle tyres and e-bike tyres? While mostly compatible the standards probably aren't the same.

EUCs have traditionally used e-Bike and the rim could be based on that. My H-666 (e-bike) havent moved anywhere in the few hundred km its been on at least (it has 35+ PSI which should help also)

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29 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

Is any disadvantage sherman original road tire VS CST 1488? 

The 1488 main disadvantage is that it wears down fairly quick due to the soft rubber. Something like 3000-5000Km(?)

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1 hour ago, Daley1 said:

Sorry @ShanesPlanet but the wobbles(vibrations) on the Sherman are not rider induced .These are definitely tyre induced.I have about 5k under my belt and had speed wobbles,breaking wobbles and tired leg wobbles early on.These are different to what we people call the wobbles.My Sherman would vibrate mercilessly at around 35kmh to 40 kmh.I could not ride it any faster and stay on. Re-centreing the wheel the problem was instantly fixed!.Straight up to 60kmh without vibrations.Unfortunately people think they are riding the wheel wrong or a bad rider ,but they reality is the poor tyre seating on this machine in a small number of machines.If mine didnt ride right after me mucking about with it ,i was going to send it back to the dealer.I,d put 400ks on it whilst riding low speed thinking i,m a crap rider .If u have purchased from a dealer and you have tried fixing it ,send it back under warranty!

I hear ya bro, and yup, i dont doubt one bit you know the difference in rider induced and equipment induced wobble. I had a tire that was off by a little and it vibrated and left me feeling a little uneasy. I didnt push the speeds up tho and went to rectify the issue. It wasnt on a sherman and I wasnt too worried. However, my sherman is PLANNED for me to ride among traffic on rural highways. The speeds maintained will be high enough that a tire problem will NOT be just a no worry event. Im expecting to slide pavement due to roadkill or pothole. I wish there was some way to measure or test for this issue, aside from just putting it in the wind and waiting to see it happen or not. Any suggestions? I asked e-wheels about it a month ago and of course the issue was downplayed. I trust e-wheels, but I also know that they are in the buisness of making money. What kind of riding is the majority of euc owners doing? I just assume that I'm quite mellow in compare. I also KNOW I tend to be overly paranoid and maintenance minded.  My background and mentality forces me to try and recitify issues BEFORE they became dangerous or costly. Now it seems Im having to try ignore the very thing I've come to be.

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2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Worth remembering that the atmospheric pressure (the one we breathe, and which pushes against our eyes) is 15psi. I don’t think 20psi is enough to hold the tires in place on an EUC. I would only go below 30psi with a light and calm rider, and wouldn’t go below 25psi under any circumstances.It all

It all depends how much thought and effort has gone into sizing the wheel and tyre. A Z10 will run at 10psi all day long, in all conditions, and not move a jot.

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It has to be something with the design though. Dirt biking tires run at 12 psi all day no issues, under very heavy riding conditions. 

Imo tubeless is the future for wheels running at these higher speeds. Way easier to seat straight. 

Anything can move on a rim in the right conditions though. While working at Mercedes we ran into issues with high torque cars actually moving the rim inside the bead. It would cause traction control issues. 

The key is getting it to be rock solid under most NORMAL riding conditions. 

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4 minutes ago, Fiori said:

It has to be something with the design though. Dirt biking tires run at 12 psi all day no issues, under very heavy riding conditions.

Anything can move on a rim in the right conditions though. While working at Mercedes we ran into issues with high torque cars actually moving the rim inside the bead.

And many drag cars have the rims bolted to the tyre bead :)

But yeah, low pressure euc tyres have never been a problem until now really. Never had issues with my MSX at 25psi, and I have run it as low as 20psi without issue. So there does seem to be an issue with these later wheels, Sherman in particular.

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My Sherm will be here wednesday, I have serious concerns about the tire, so much so that at one point I asked for a refund only to send the funds right back the following day, the eWheels team reassured me that these are rare cases but I certainly have a fair amount of anxiety about it, fingers crossed I have no issue.

Be kind of neat to measure the Sherm rim vs a motorcycle rim that runs the same tire.

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@RetroThruster Coming from one of the people that did crash: you will be fine and you will love your Sherman purchase! Carefully inspect tire seating when you get it, as long as it isn't crazy out of wack with one spot bulging out, just leave it as is and see how it rides. Monitor it the first few few rides. 

If you do have to recenter it carefully align it with the straight edge method listed in this thread. Don't try to seat it by riding at low psi to 'push the bead in'. 

Enjoy your Sherman! 

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I have experienced a lot of grief with the Sherman knobby tire (regarding seating fit), and and not had the same experience with the 18XL, MSX or MSP

I've been in contact with eWheels.  they agree the margin between the motor/rim and tire is too great - at least in some circumstances.  they are expecting new motor/rims specifically for this reason

I have had no stability issue riding my Sherman right up to 45mph at any time, regardless of the tire not being perfect.  Imo, a slight tire move or wobble has not shown to cause instability at speed for experienced riders - please correct me if I am wrong.  

If any Sherman rider suspects a poor fit, I recommend keeping an eye on the tube stem position coming out of the rim, and (like some have mentioned) placing a mark on the rim and tire to see if there is any movement while riding

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Every wheel I have owned during this journey has had issues of some sort. The Sherman hop can be a show stopper, but if you get over the hype and use some common sense it is easily resolved with the current rim. 

Secondly, if you do not own a wheel please show some some discretion when making comments on it.

Finally, your wheel is a vehicle and will require maintenance. Tire change, firmware update, etc. Either get familiar with it and invest in some tools or find someone else who can work on it because it is going to need servicing at some point in time.

Happy New Year!

 

 

 

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I do hope its possible to gather relevant info before you buy:  Ben, Rune and as always mrelwood provide us with just that: Ben wrote this:

Quote

I've been in contact with eWheels.  they agree the margin between the motor/rim and tire is too great - at least in some circumstances.  they are expecting new motor/rims specifically for this reason

Im told Ewheels gave a Sherman to a costumer who recieved a package containing a torched Gotway.  So he now have a heavy weight machine and intact  not-fried testicles. Very good. Regarding the VS: I dont really get the idea it should only be in some circumstances, there is a rim/tyre misfit.  Unless off course VS have improved, better dimensions or better materials ? Who knows? Going fast on a misfit 20" wheel is a tad dangerous, so when you get your Sherman , the first thing you should check is this thread - check for wobbles. If you get a Begoode check for burns, cables, water inside etc. Inmotion v11 check bearings, saddle piece and metal saddle top piece holder. There is a lot of tech info the EUC producers do not provide us with.   

It must be possible to gather general good info without having the wheel in your house?  My batch 2  Inmotion V11  selfdestructed pretty damned quick. Ill not make that mistake again, since Im addicted to EUC.  I need 2 functional wheels in the house at all times, also I need the Mten3 (kidswheel) for laffs. (sweet addiction?) Is VS worth the money?  According the reviews its much much better than the competition, still there are mistakes: 
 

Quote

The Sherman hop can be a show stopper, but if you get over the hype and use some common sense it is easily resolved with the current rim. 

Well why dont ppl do just that? fix it using common sense?  Or do they ?  Is the wheel simply to weak? Is it made for on road only despite the fancy off-road tire used?  

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On 1/18/2021 at 1:03 PM, null said:

The 1488 main disadvantage is that it wears down fairly quick due to the soft rubber. Something like 3000-5000Km(?)

16" size of 1488 last around 3500km, 18" size double it, i've done 8000km with it on my msp and was still decent.

On 1/4/2021 at 4:44 PM, Finn Bjerke said:

It seems the hazzle free near perfect Sherman Veteran have problems after all? Tire disconnecting? The solution is;
"Do nothing?" 
"Change the tire" 
?? 
How widespread is this problem, is it only "knubby" tire or is it the wheel or the axel?  What is the underlying general problem is it possible to generalize at all? 

image.jpeg.70251df4b4bbde93c193b6f64ae763f7.jpeg

 

maybe i'm late here but speaking about the kenda k340 street tire i've faced the same issue on my EX:

not something related to the euc or rim, is just the tire too big, it came out even when you mount it and there's no way to center it, oscillate a lot at speed.
We have 3 EX in Rome and all share the same issue.
if you remember Kuji has the same problem when he tried it, talked to Adam (WrongWay) same oscillation issue

i've put a cst 1488 tire on mine and it's perfect.

didn't have a knobby right now but i'll test some cst tire in the next days (c113 and c6004)

 

Edited by EMA
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3 minutes ago, Finn Bjerke said:

Is this just a PSI problem really ? 

i have tried 2 KENDA K340 and both do the same shit:

it's not a setting or fitting issue, is just the tire too big for the rim:

you put the first side on the rim - ok
then you put the inner tube - ok
after that, putting the other side into the rim require no effort...but the first side automatically go out !

when you manage to fit both side inside the rim you really need to pump it really carefull checking that the tire remain in it's position, i've put 20psi tring to center it and it goes off the rim just with me standing on the wheel.
 

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I don't doubt that the tire might be contributing. But in this thread alone the issue seems to have happened to 3 different tires(K340, K262, and the contiscoot). However two of those are Kenda's so....

 

I would really like to try a new tire and see what if any difference it makes. I have the michelin pilots in front of me. But I don't wanna tear the wheel apart just to have to do it again when the new rim comes. And I also have had no issues in 300+ miles so I'd rather just keep riding until rim arrives. Plus I actually really like the 340s tread pattern. 

Wish I had a spare rim in front of me to check and compare the fit of the tires without having to tear a wheel apart. 

 

Edit: also on another note I'm wondering how the rim even separates from the motor? 

Edited by Fiori
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