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I fell or was hit, in the Hospital


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Thanks to all, will be discharged soon

Much better these past few days. No pain. I was cranky for a few days. I noticed my snowboard gloves only had a little scuff damage, I don’t think they slid.  the helmet is cracked, the face shield

BTW I wear a cheap Walmart Yellow Vest (Gillet Juane).  I was wearing snowboard gloves with wrist protection, barely scuffed no wrist injuries. I had on a padded MC jacket, I have a small cut on one e

So, wHich full face helmet is safest?

22 hours ago, Surfling said:

@GothamMike 'hope you feel better soon enough,bro. Out of curiousity, any chance of knowing your speed when it happened?

I never ride faster than 20 MPH

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Get better soon. I had a minor crash when I was still so new that I was just barely able to free mount and keep myself upright on the wheel. My own fault entirely but I still rolled and sprained my ankle so badly that it took nine months to heal fully. Kept me off the wheel for more than three years until I had gained back enough courage to get back on. Just rolled over the 1,000km mark on my V10F two days ago!

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@mhpr262 I did something similar, ran across the court playing tennis and stepped on a ball I didn't see. Detached the tendons in my left ankle. That was 20 yrs ago, it's as good as it's going to ever be but won't be as good as once was haha. 

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On 1/8/2021 at 11:42 AM, Circuitmage said:

End result, we lost a vehicle, my wife suffered permanent back and neck damage, and the insurance companies got off without paying a single cent.

A dash cam is necessary. All drivers are liars when they crash, and all drivers will claim the other person was at fault.

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8 hours ago, GothamMike said:

So, wHich full face helmet is safest?

I never ride faster than 20 MPH

That’s weird that you had a bad crash like that at such a relatively low speed. 

Have you had any problems with your wheel until now? Was it low on charge or anything like that? Maybe you haven’t been back to the area yet but were there any big potholes on that stretch of road?

Have to say, I don’t know that I could trust my wheel again if that happened to me and I couldn’t explain it. 

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1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

A dash cam is necessary. All drivers are liars when they crash, and all drivers will claim the other person was at fault.

Not quite ALL, but yup.. it only takes one!

1 hour ago, shellac said:

That’s weird that you had a bad crash like that at such a relatively low speed. 

Have you had any problems with your wheel until now? Was it low on charge or anything like that? Maybe you haven’t been back to the area yet but were there any big potholes on that stretch of road?

Have to say, I don’t know that I could trust my wheel again if that happened to me and I couldn’t explain it. 

I am also curious at how a simple 20mph ride just goes to total ass like this. I ride an 18L and 20mph is the lower end of my cruise speed. Road hazards, weather conditions, otehr drivers and rider mistakes are part of the math. It changes the equation if I now have to worry about my wheel just taking a crap on me. Any idea atall about if it was hardware, road, or rider that was the primary culprit? So far my 18L has always seemed pretty conservative where KS put the alarms and tilback for given battery.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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17 hours ago, GothamMike said:

So, wHich full face helmet is safest?

I never ride faster than 20 MPH

Usually you get what you pay for when it comes to helmets.

My Leatt helmet is a lot safer then the $50 piece of junk I got from China.

Definately choose one with MIPs.

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7 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I am also curious at how a simple 20mph ride just goes to total ass like this. 

You don't get to choose how you land. I don't care if you're a ninja... At just 20mph you can be on the ground, dazed, and sliding before you even realize what has happened.

Gear up guys...

@GothamMike get well soon and post any additional info you have, I think we are all curious how you fell. Is your wheel damaged?

Edited by Tryptych
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14 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

...how a simple 20mph ride just goes to total ass like this...

hmmm........20 mph can be damaging. I had my share..

And remember a recent post of the guy who cleanly fractured his femur and a dead pedestrian at 9mph .......

Edited by Surfling
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1 hour ago, Surfling said:

hmmm........20 mph can be damaging. I had my share..

And remember a recent post of the guy who cleanly fractured his femur and a dead pedestrian at 9mph .......

No arguments there, and I recall defending the femur fracture guy against those that were saying it was impossible.

It’s just that it’s less likely than a crash at a higher speed. One would expect the faster you’re going, the higher the likelihood of serious injury like OP had. I’m not saying it can’t happen under 20 mph. 

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16 hours ago, shellac said:

That’s weird that you had a bad crash like that at such a relatively low speed.

The worst crashes are at low speed. I’ve pretty sure he didn’t go sliding. No, he hit the ground and HARD. All impact. 
What people fail to realize is as long as you’re geared up for the abrasion, speed is usually your friend in an EUC crash. It gets you sliding. Sub 20mph there’s little momentum to overcome the friction and you take a ton of impact. 
Tons of NYC riders can attest to this, coming out relatively unscathed in their 40+mph wrecks 

Edited by Darrell Wesh
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30 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

What people fail to realize is as long as you’re geared up for the abrasion, speed is usually your friend in an EUC crash. It gets you sliding. Sub 20mph there’s little momentum to overcome the friction and you take a ton of impact. 

Interesting point, never thought of that.

 

 

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I'm sorry to hear about your accident Mike and i hope you get better soon and even more importantly that you don't end up with permanent damage of any kind. 

The hospital just seems like an eventual destination of any euc rider and i have been there myself a few times in relation to euc accidents (broke my left wrist 3 times :efefa6edcf:). But it would seem that regardless of riding style, speed, on- or off-road or amount of gear this is where we will all eventually go and i think every rider should take this into consideration well before stepping onto a wheel.

I have taken this into consideration and also accept the increased possibility of death relative to riding cars or other heavier/protected vehicles. Life is short and potentially even shorter riding eucs everyday but to me it's totally worth it. I would never nudge anyone into riding again after such a terrifying experience as you just went through but think about what quality of life means to you and know that every day your life is in danger. Innocent vehicle operators and pedestrians are killed every day, cancer is a thing and covid too... As i see it i'd much rather die on a wheel.

This may very well be a moot point to someone who just went through something as traumatizing as you did.

I just hope you have a speedy and full recovery both when it comes to the physical and the mental scars this experience has left you.

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1 hour ago, Darrell Wesh said:

What people fail to realize is as long as you’re geared up for the abrasion, speed is usually your friend in an EUC crash. It gets you sliding. Sub 20mph there’s little momentum to overcome the friction and you take a ton of impact. 

This is why I decided to buy my Klim mc suit. 

But you have to keep in mind that speed isn't going to save you from a crash most of the time. The more speed the less time you have to avoid or brake and the more forces you have to deal with unless you have suspension to help you. 

In the end I wouldn't argue speed to be a safety feature in general. Unless a dog is chasing you 😉

BTW @GothamMike how long is it since you crashed? 

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15 hours ago, Tryptych said:

You don't get to choose how you land. I don't care if you're a ninja... At just 20mph you can be on the ground, dazed, and sliding before you even realize what has happened.

Gear up guys...

@GothamMike get well soon and post any additional info you have, I think we are all curious how you fell. Is your wheel damaged?

All information that is correct but not answering my question. I don't care to hear the standard 'wear your gear' response. How about... don't ride euc's because you MAY get hurt?  Avoiding an accident is better than simply wearing gear and NOT avoiding one. I'd imagine this accident was among the hard (near impossible) to avoid type, but ANY information is good information. 'Wear your gear" isnt information as much as a tired old record being played over and over again.

20mph is a realtively slow speed crash. Obviously there are deadly forces at that speed, but people  survive accident at that speed and much higher. Im just curious how a mid speed ride can become what it did. Obviously GothamMike came up with a really shitty dice roll and somehow came out in bad shape. It really is too bad and I just hope we can gleam something from this to help minimize it from happening, not just prepare for it to happen.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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5 hours ago, xiiijojjo said:

also accept the increased possibility of death relative to riding cars or other heavier/protected vehicles.

Uh, no. Driving is still the most dangerous thing you probably do to commute. Don’t be fooled into thinking all that metal around you actually can save you in an 80mph crash. Combine the radically higher speeds relative to EUC’s with the lack of agility or inability to dodge obstacles, the massive footprint on the road, as well as the inattentiveness drivers give other drivers and you have a recipe for disaster just waiting to be cooked up. You can’t forget that cars are very hard to control when they are “disturbed”. If you get bumped from behind at speed, or start hydroplaning, you’re going to have a tough time not plowing into an object or crashing into a ditch(theirs your instant deceleration right there)

 

You riding in the bike lane in a city probably poses just as much risk as trying to get across a crosswalk as a pedestrian.

Edited by Darrell Wesh
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3 hours ago, Unventor said:

But you have to keep in mind that speed isn't going to save you from a crash most of the time. The more speed the less time you have to avoid or brake and the more forces you have to deal with unless you have suspension to help you. 

You’re not talking about a crash anymore. That’s obstacle avoidance. 

5 hours ago, Mango said:

Until you slide into a pole or wall... 40mph to 0mph in an instant no amount of gear going to save you.

I have yet to hear of a single EUC crash where someone smacked into an object at blistering speeds. That just doesn’t happen. Sure I’ve heard and seen of some at low sub 15mph speeds where people were texting etc, but not faster. 

An EUC’s footprint is incredibly small compared to a car. Combine that with the superior agility that no other vehicle has. This means that in a worst case scenario you simply swerve out of the way and avoid crashing into an obstacle; you may lose your balance or clip your pedals and fall to the ground in the process but you avoid that instant deceleration of hitting something. 
 

Its not at all like a car where you swerve but the car is just so wide and massive you don’t make it in time. 

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13 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I have yet to hear of a single EUC crash where someone smacked into an object at blistering speeds. That just doesn’t happen. 

What about that dude, in the USA I think, where the video showed him riding along and he clipped the rear quarter of a parked car. I'm pretty sure he was doing more than 15mph but I'm not sure. All I do know is that he was very lucky in terms of injury. It looked horrible, and ripe for a serious knee/leg injury but IIRC he walked away.

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4 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Im just curious how a mid speed ride can become what it did.

Higher speed crashes aren't less energetic than low speed crashes, it's just that the higher your speed, the more your upper body is a sail. Hence, a wheel cut off gives you more time to bring your feet underneath you (the reaction time being above the magical .2 seconds).

Put another way (and this I've experienced in my many crashes), you're going slow, there is no wind against your chest, and therefore a cutoff puts you face down in the ground almost instantly. If you're going faster, then there's a lot of wind on your chest, enough that when a cutoff occurs you get a tiny bit extra time.

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8 hours ago, Surfling said:

hmmm........20 mph can be damaging. I had my share..

And remember a recent post of the guy who cleanly fractured his femur and a dead pedestrian at 9mph .......

Yeah the impact of the head against a hard rigid object at 20 mph with no attempt to absorb the shock is enough to kill any human being on the planet. Even 12 MPH would be devastating. Although it's very unlikely that you would crash in such a way. The human instinct to survive will do anything it can to absorb the impending shock during a crash.

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1 hour ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I have yet to hear of a single EUC crash where someone smacked into an object at blistering speeds. That just doesn’t happen. Sure I’ve heard and seen of some at low sub 15mph speeds where people were texting etc, but not faster. 

I had a crash due to clipping a curb trying to avoid a longboarders coming at me in opposite direction and all of a sudden started to do s curves over I to my bike lane. I hit hard full force with upside down standing in my shoulder (estimated speed due to me braking and navigating 25-30kmh). My shoulder dislocated, and I have discribed this here on forum. 

Now this is not related to OP. But just saying sometimes despite preparing and all good intentions, in the accident you never know how it ends up on an EUC. 

Yes I slidded or half tumbled but only after the full force of my shoulder had hit the curb. The force were so hard that I now know I briefly blacked out, dispite my head never hit the asphalt. The hit was so hard it took me 3+ hours before I felt anything and it wasn't in my shoulder but in my elbow due to pulling of muscles. It took the better part of 8+hours before I started to feel my shoulder and I had to go into theatre before they could reseat it right. 

I have hade another on too. On the one I did slide but the first impact was how I got 95% of damaged as I landed flat on my back sliding forward. And yes it is here on the forum too. 

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7 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Uh, no. Driving is still the most dangerous thing you probably do to commute. Don’t be fooled into thinking all that metal around you actually can save you in an 80mph crash. Combine the radically higher speeds relative to EUC’s with the lack of agility or inability to dodge obstacles, the massive footprint on the road, as well as the inattentiveness drivers give other drivers and you have a recipe for disaster just waiting to be cooked up. You can’t forget that cars are very hard to control when they are “disturbed”. If you get bumped from behind at speed, or start hydroplaning, you’re going to have a tough time not plowing into an object or crashing into a ditch(theirs your instant deceleration right there)

 

You riding in the bike lane in a city probably poses just as much risk as trying to get across a crosswalk as a pedestrian.

I have not yet seen statistics for relative lethality of eucs vs cars i am simply trying to compare the relative lethality of riding an euc vs a car.

The reason i consider an euc to potentially be statistically more dangerous is from extrapolating the data of car vs motorcycle lethality, motorcycles being more similar to the functionality of eucs. The data shows conclusively that motorcycles are indeed more lethal means of transportation. Of course i realize that eucs and motorcycles are not the same thing, both are open vehicles with untethered riders, have less points of contact with the road, and in case of accidents for the most part the rider will be flung off of the vehicle, they also both have smaller footprints on the road. Differences come down to top speed and where they typically ride, for the most part, aspects that i'm very aware will affect the lethality statistic of motorcycles.

Then we have the relative agility of the euc vs the motorcycle where there is no discussion that the euc excels over the motorcycle, but remember how agility is exponentially reduced as speed increases also take into account how long an emergency brake takes on an euc relative to a motorcycle at their respective speeds, sure some people like myself ride with heels off of the back of the pedal and recalibrate our euc 3-8 degrees of backwards tilt for even more effective emergency braking but from experience i can elaborate that in some cases there won't be enough reaction time to even pull off an emergency brake due to actions of other vehicles and i have broken bones to prove that. 

The inattentiveness of 4 wheeled vehicles (or more) is an even bigger danger to riders of vehicles with less points of contact to the road, sure if a car is disturbed or bumped into that could result in a crash but if someone bumps into a motorcycle or euc that will result in a crash, also if an euc starts slipping on wet surfaces that is also a guaranteed crash. Also if a car has an accident and the car behind doesn't have enough time to react and brake and ram car in front of them both operators are relatively safe in their metal box whereas if i have an accident and the car immediately behind me doesn't have enough time to brake i'm now strawberry jam mate. Also as a rider who has had accidents launching me 20m from the site of the accident i can assure you i would have preferred being in a metal box upon impact, and had i been launched into and wrapped around a metal pole/sign/light post that wish applies even more so. 

All in all i think it's only a matter of time before the lethality statistic of eucs start looking more like those of motorcycles rather than those of cars.
The only factor that needs improving to facilitate this hypothesis of mine is the continued production of faster and faster eucs. So for now you may be right that cars and motorcycles are more lethal and i wouldn't argue that in fact i agree, but i speculate that in a matter of 90-120km/h top speeds on eucs we will start seeing lethality statistics (if that is even possible with eucs being unregistered vehicles and all) more similar to those of motorcycles rather than cars gear or no gear. 

Also i ride on roads with cars at 70 km/h and there are no bike lanes in my city, and don't for a second think i'm alone. Faster speeds on eucs will mean more people like me on the roads. 

As a vehicle riding on empty streets and roads i think the euc is potentially the safest vehicle of them all but we don't live in that hypothetical world we live in one where the safety of the euc is more relative to its speed and where it rides than how it operates and who does the operating. 

Edited by xiiijojjo
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