I fell or was hit, in the Hospital

[Surfling]

37 minutes ago, GothamMike said:

I will avoid streets for a while.

750-mile empire trail nearby. Heal up, bruddah!

[shellac]

Glad you’re recovering @GothamMike. It must be quite the traumatic experience to go through something like that. 

The other remote possibility is that maybe you passed out while riding, like a vasovagal episode, and then the fall happened immediately after. Certainly happens to people driving cars. Just something to consider. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by shellac

[Darrell Wesh]

16 hours ago, xiiijojjo said:

All in all i think it's only a matter of time before the lethality statistic of eucs start looking more like those of motorcycles rather than those of cars.

That will NEVER happen no matter how fast EUC’s eventually go. You know why? 
 

Because it’s not as simple as twisting a throttle and off you go into oblivion. You have to WORK for your speed on an EUC no matter how fast they get. And with or without suspension you are always riding according to the terrain and traffic situations. No one is going 60mph on rickety roads. 
 

The fact that braking on an EUC is not as good as a motorcycle is actually a good thing. People realize that and go slower instead of full speed like a car until their 10meters from another car to put the brakes on. 
 

Let’s not forget that motorcycles are much less visible then someone on an EUC, simply due to the riding position of standing vs seated. 

[mike_bike_kite]

1 minute ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Let’s not forget that motorcycles are much less visible then someone on an EUC, simply due to the riding position of standing vs seated. 

I don't think that's really true. I have 2 motorbikes (one designed in the 1950's) and 2 scooters. They are all far easier to see simply due to their lighting. The front lighting on a V11 is probably the best available on an EUC but even my scooters would easily outshine it - and that's without blinding oncoming traffic. From a rear lighting perspective, motorcycles score a complete walkover on EUCs - the rear lighting on the Nik is like a Christmas tree ornament. I will admit that some EUCs are easier to see side on, especially the Nik.

[Darrell Wesh]

1 hour ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I don't think that's really true. I have 2 motorbikes (one designed in the 1950's) and 2 scooters. They are all far easier to see simply due to their lighting. The front lighting on a V11 is probably the best available on an EUC but even my scooters would easily outshine it - and that's without blinding oncoming traffic. From a rear lighting perspective, motorcycles score a complete walkover on EUCs - the rear lighting on the Nik is like a Christmas tree ornament. I will admit that some EUCs are easier to see side on, especially the Nik.

No man, that’s a fallacy. Lighting, especially in the day, does not make you as visible as you think. If that was the case why are there still so many crashes at stop lights with motorcycles. That’s one of the leading fears and causes of accidents, where cars just simply roll right through a bike at a red light. Lighting does very little if it’s static. Cars will tune it out. That’s why smart bicyclist  have FLASHING lights. Strobe lights. Anything that breaks up the normal pattern to get attention and awareness. 
 

Standing up gives you way more presence in the road not only because you’re more visible but because of the inherent fragility of our vehicle. You hit a motorcycle you hit the back tire and don’t think too much of hitting the occupant. You hit an EUC and you are going to hit the person riding it as well. It’s this reason that car drivers are much more wary and attentive of being around us. They may not seem like it in some instances, but TRUST me they are. I’ve had numerous cops tell me that my mere presence in the road has decreased average speeds. 
 

The unknown nature of an EUC is also why we are more visible. You see something you can’t quite understand in the road, you slow down and become more attentive, or you actively avoid it. That same “respect” and awareness does not get dished out to motorcycles because their too mainstream. Cars tune motorcycles out and forget they’re even there.

 

You’re also forgetting that the number 1 way to be more visible is to move your limbs. That’s called bio motion recognition. It’s why the greatest reflectivity companies (3M Scotchlite) are putting their tape on the limbs. An EUC rider has to move their body to turn, to turn their shoulder to look behind them. Swinging your arms, body leans, all of that makes you way more visible and as a human being and creates dramatic awareness of your presence in the road. On a motorcycle your body is too static to create that awareness. 
 

Even a bicycle has more road presence then a motorcycle, with the pedaling feet. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Darrell Wesh

[mike_bike_kite]

I can only speak from my experience of riding motorbikes in city traffic for 30 years. I have ridden motorbikes all over the states as well.  I think we'll have to agree to differ on this one.

[winterwheel]

Just because someone said full-speed EUC collisions with immovable objects never happen...

I had a full speed, full-frontal collision with a car.

In the early days I would ride on sidewalks, normally carefully, but this time I was in a real hurry to get to meetup point at designated time. So, absentmindedly doing 30-35km/h riding on sidewalk. Because it is a busy main street there were high fences that prevented seeing what was coming out of the alley-ways. Young guy in an old beater emerged suddenly from the alley and stopped equally suddenly to wait for traffic right across the sidewalk, about fifteen feet in front of me, no time to react at all. Wheel (18xl) hit the driver's side wheel directly, I wound up doing a full cartwheel over the car, landing on the sidewalk on the other side. 

I emerged from this with legs a bit sore as all the contact came from legs hitting first the car, and then the pavement on the other side of the car. There was a decent dent in the front left side of his car, but as I said it was a beater and neither the driver nor I wanted to make a big deal out of it so he and I agreed to carry on without worrying about it.

The takeaway from that incident for me is that sidewalks are the most dangerous place to be when riding faster than a jogging pace because lines of sight are built for pedestrians, not speeding PEVs. I rarely ride on sidewalks these days, and ride super-carefully when I do.

 

[Darrell Wesh]

14 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

Just because someone said full-speed EUC collisions with immovable objects never happen...

I had a full speed, full-frontal collision with a car.

In the early days I would ride on sidewalks, normally carefully, but this time I was in a real hurry to get to meetup point at designated time. So, absentmindedly doing 30-35km/h riding on sidewalk. Because it is a busy main street there were high fences that prevented seeing what was coming out of the alley-ways. Young guy in an old beater emerged suddenly from the alley and stopped equally suddenly to wait for traffic right across the sidewalk, about fifteen feet in front of me, no time to react at all. Wheel (18xl) hit the driver's side wheel directly, I wound up doing a full cartwheel over the car, landing on the sidewalk on the other side. 

I emerged from this with legs a bit sore as all the contact came from legs hitting first the car, and then the pavement on the other side of the car. There was a decent dent in the front left side of his car, but as I said it was a beater and neither the driver nor I wanted to make a big deal out of it so he and I agreed to carry on without worrying about it.

The takeaway from that incident for me is that sidewalks are the most dangerous place to be when riding faster than a jogging pace because lines of sight are built for pedestrians, not speeding PEVs. I rarely ride on sidewalks these days, and ride super-carefully when I do.

 

My post about collisions was in response to someone saying 40mph to 0mph in an instant. While I won’t debate if 30kph is considered “fast” considering decently fit humans can run that fast...I’ll say that you did not experience an instant deceleration like you would with a wall or if your full body had impacted the back of a bus.

What you experienced was no different than what football guys experience on a game to game basis, grown men running towards them at 20mph and tackling the lower legs. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Darrell Wesh

[winterwheel]

1 minute ago, Darrell Wesh said:

It’s no different than what football guys experience on a game to game basis, grown men running towards them at 20mph and tackling the lower legs. 

In my particular incident I agree with you on this, I'm from a football family, I draw the same comparisons between football collisions and EUC unplanned dismounts all the time.

But I suppose a lot of this discussion seems to be about visibility, and I think I presented a case where the relatively higher visibility of an EUC (another point I agree with) doesn't help to avoid severe collisions. Staying off sidewalks mitigates this.

 

 

[GothamMike]

19 hours ago, Surfling said:

750-mile empire trail nearby. Heal up, bruddah!

I've been on the Maybrook Section before it officially opened. Gorgeous!

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

What you experienced was no different than what football guys experience on a game to game basis, grown men running towards them at 20mph and tackling the lower legs. 

maybe not, but average age on the forum here is not 20 years...and I am way over the date to be an athletic myself. (last time someone made a poll on this it landed aroung late 50ish)

[Surfling]

6 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Even a bicycle has more road presence then a motorcycle, with the pedaling feet. 

That's some stealthy ninja motorcycle.....(unlike that loud kawasaki)

So, you ride one? smh

[Darrell Wesh]

6 hours ago, Surfling said:

That's some stealthy ninja motorcycle.....(unlike that loud kawasaki)

So, you ride one? smh

I assure you, no one hears motorcycles over the loud music being played in their cars with the windows rolled up. 

https://canadamotoguide.com/2016/07/29/the-truth-about-loud-pipes/

Bicyclists have far more road presence because they’re like fragile china. You’re going to tread lightly in a shop full of fragile breakable objects, watching your hands and making sure not to bump into anything. That’s how it feels riding with bicyclists in the road(and many many people hate that feeling). But that’s awareness and road presence at its best.
 

Put a motorcycle on the road and the driver won’t change a damn thing about how they drive. 

[Planemo]

47 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Put a motorcycle on the road and the driver won’t change a damn thing about how they drive. 

The Doppler argument in your link isnt always relevant though. I dont know what its like your side of the pond, but theres very often a 'parting of the seas' over here when a loud bike is heard filtering down the middle of a 2 lane carriageway, way before its next to or in front of the cars.

Having had many big bikes with loud pipes it doesnt matter to car drivers whether the sound is low or high frequency, the fact they hear 'something' is all that matters.

It was abundantly clear to me that when I bought my 250cc scooter (which had a very quiet stock pipe) far fewer car drivers knew I was around.

Of course there will always be some that dont hear anything like you say. My motto is therefore 'assume everyone is deaf', which is indeed what is taught on the police driving courses.

[UniGrad]

15 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I don't think that's really true. I have 2 motorbikes (one designed in the 1950's) and 2 scooters. They are all far easier to see simply due to their lighting. The front lighting on a V11 is probably the best available on an EUC but even my scooters would easily outshine it - and that's without blinding oncoming traffic. From a rear lighting perspective, motorcycles score a complete walkover on EUCs - the rear lighting on the Nik is like a Christmas tree ornament. I will admit that some EUCs are easier to see side on, especially the Nik.

The Sherman light is brighter than the V11 lights. It's pretty much like high beams on a car. It blinds people from like 50 metres away. They start covering their eyes and I'll turn it off for them. Then turn it back on after I pass them. It should have a dimming feature.

[null]

1 minute ago, UniGrad said:

The Sherman light is brighter than the V11 lights. It's pretty much like high beams on a car. It blinds people from like 50 metres away. They start covering their eyes and I'll turn it off for them. Then turn it back on after I pass them. It should have a dimming feature.

Indeed, even when turned downwards (people dont get the bright spot) some still shade their eyes. The reflector should have been shaped to cap the light at the upper level. As it is I consider making a shade cap for it, as it is getting embarrassing at times.

[mike_bike_kite]

6 minutes ago, UniGrad said:

The Sherman light is brighter than the V11 lights. It's pretty much like high beams on a car. It blinds people from like 50 metres away. They start covering their eyes and I'll turn it off for them. Then turn it back on after I pass them. It should have a dimming feature.

In all honesty, I don't honestly see blinding oncoming traffic as a safety feature.

[.....]

9 minutes ago, UniGrad said:

The Sherman light is brighter than the V11 lights. It's pretty much like high beams on a car. It blinds people from like 50 metres away. They start covering their eyes and I'll turn it off for them. Then turn it back on after I pass them. It should have a dimming feature.

I bet it wouldnt be tough at all, to wire a sensor in series with the headlight power. They open so easiyl and the wiring is right there. Pesky connector for modular could be changed out at same time. I havent ridden night much yet at all, but i wouldnt hesitate to change that simple circuit should I find need. 3d printed hood from tpu would work for a visor, if one didnt want to change out the light. Sounds like a fun projet... design a snap on headlight shade.

Edited January 12, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[UniGrad]

3 minutes ago, null said:

Indeed, even when turned downwards (people dont get the bright spot) some still shade their eyes. The reflector should have been shaped to cap the light at the upper level. As it is I consider making a shade cap for it, as it is getting embarrassing at times.

LOL I know it's cringy as hell. I actually have a button on my helmet that controls the light. It lets me turn it on/off super easily. So I turn it off for EVERYBODY.

Okay not everybody. Sometimes I forget and I'm like NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[UniGrad]

10 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I bet it wouldnt be tough at all, to wire a sensor in series with the headlight power. They open so easiyl and the wiring is right there. Pesky connector for modular could be changed out at same time. I havent ridden night much yet at all, but i wouldnt hesitate to change that simple circuit should I find need. 3d printed hood from tpu would work for a visor, if one didnt want to change out the light. Sounds like a fun projet... design a snap on headlight shade.

Yeah could be a fun project. What kind of sensor did you have in mind? A photosensor? Or were you talking about a way to control the brightness with like a dial or button?

Anyway what I have at the moment is a button on my helmet for turning the lights on/off. I just turn them off for anyone that I pass at night. The contrast in the moment that the light turns off is insane. Almost like it's suddenly pitch black all around and then I glide past the person like a ninja in the dark. They always have a funny reaction but I think they really appreciate me turning it off.

[LanghamP]

17 hours ago, winterwheel said:

The takeaway from that incident for me is that sidewalks are the most dangerous place to be when riding faster than a jogging pace because lines of sight are built for pedestrians, not speeding PEVs. I rarely ride on sidewalks these days, and ride super-carefully when I do.

Sidewalks aren't safe for pedestrians either, as about 1/4 of a sidewalk is devoted to automobile travel. That is, we incorrectly see sidewalks devoted to foot traffic only, but since sidewalks devote a significant portion of their area to car travel, it follows sidewalks aren't devoted to pedestrian traffic.

The only place I've seen sidewalks completely devoted to pedestrians is in Berlin, where most city blocks are uninterrupted by sidewalks. Here in the US at least 1/4 of sidewalks isn't a sidewalk but a driveway.

[GothamMike]

I now seem to recall a gust of wind hit my back and knocked me down. Weather was getting bad and just started to sleet.

[Circuitmage]

19 hours ago, GothamMike said:

I now seem to recall a gust of wind hit my back and knocked me down. Weather was getting bad and just started to sleet.

Interesting that you had that memory come back.

I never really had any additional memories from my motorcycle accident 28 years ago. Always good to be aware of your surroundings at all times...hopefully you were not pushed.

I've had aggressive bicyclists ride next to me that did not appreciate having a wheel on the same bicycle lane. And I've had people want to give me 5 as I ride by (which might pull me off as I am going ~20mph). 

[Nostris]

We should also remember that sometimes the amount of injury is just simple chance. Thinking of Michael Schumacher, the F1 driver. He was stopped on a ski slope when he fell over and bashed his helmeted head on a rock. His GoPro camera mount penetrated his skull.....resulting in brain damage. Pure, simple bad luck really, nothing more!